The Intentional God

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Nessa
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The Intentional God

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intentional
ɪnˈtɛnʃ(ə)n(ə)l/Submit
adjective
done on purpose; deliberate.
"intentional wrongdoing and harm"
synonyms: deliberate, calculated, conscious, done on purpose, intended, planned, meant, considered, studied, knowing, wilful, wanton, purposeful, purposive, purposed, premeditated, pre-planned, thought out in advance, prearranged, preconceived, predetermined; aforethought; voluntary, volitional; datedprepense
Ok, I thought I would broaden my thread that questioned if God designed a specific person for each of us to marry - for those of us he wants to marry, that is. In other words, is God intentional about who specifically we marry or does he just put forth possibilities for us.

See Genesis 24 about issac and rebekah. The servant was very intentional in his prayer although abraham seemed not so much. As long as the woman met the general criteria he had then any woman included in that would do. Do we see God like that? As long as our spouse is christian then its just up to us. It doesnt really matter?

But in order to even answer that, we need to look at how intentional God is.

When I read the bible I dont see God really leaving things up to 'chance'. No one can thwart Gods plans and God is well able to soften and harden hearts at his will. We have free choice but to what extent?

Consider just how many prophecies there are in the bible concerning Jesus. Things had to happen a certain way for it all to come to pass. Was it a simple matter of if Mary had said 'No, not me Lord, choose another virgin' would God of simply chosen someone else? Or did he pre determin the mother of Jesus long before Mary was born - not merely because he knew she would say yes. Others might of said yes too.

Now jonah said no and moses said no...but Did God simply move on to others who would say yes?
God will intentionally make it next to impossible for us to say no...though we still can. Why does he bother trying so hard if anyone willing will do?

Is God at the mercy of our choices? He certainly wasnt with pharaoh.
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Re: The Intentional God

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The choice is always ours.
We have free will in the regards that we choose what decisions to make, even if the choices are limited (there is no such a thing as "no choice").
While can does "preordain" certain things and does choose certain people for certain tasks even before they are born, the choice is always theirs.
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Re: The Intentional God

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PaulSacramento wrote:The choice is always ours.
We have free will in the regards that we choose what decisions to make, even if the choices are limited (there is no such a thing as "no choice").
While can does "preordain" certain things and does choose certain people for certain tasks even before they are born, the choice is always theirs.
Well, technically maybe. Jonah, for example said "No". Did God respect that? And move on to ask someone else? I can tell my child no computer for a week unless you clean your room. I know what they will choose and know exactly what will cause them to do what I want. What parent doesnt? Of course I use my powers for good and not for evil :twisted: :P

Now God doesnt want anyone to perish, but lets not pretend God doesnt.greatly (even to an extreme) influence what we will do and our choices. And keeps on us at times, until we say yes.
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Re: The Intentional God

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Nessa wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:The choice is always ours.
We have free will in the regards that we choose what decisions to make, even if the choices are limited (there is no such a thing as "no choice").
While can does "preordain" certain things and does choose certain people for certain tasks even before they are born, the choice is always theirs.
Well, technically maybe. Jonah, for example said "No". Did God respect that? And move on to ask someone else? I can tell my child no computer for a week unless you clean your room. I know what they will choose and know exactly what will cause them to do what I want. What parent doesnt? Of course I use my powers for good and not for evil :twisted: :P

Now God doesnt want anyone to perish, but lets not pretend God doesnt.greatly (even to an extreme) influence what we will do and our choices. And keeps on us at times, until we say yes.
The exceptions like Jonah, Moses and the prophets are just that, the exceptions and they were NOT influenced to believe ( they did believe), they were influenced to due His bidding ( if influence is the right word).
Jonah still had a choice.
People always have a choice, they just feel like they don't when they don't like the choices.
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Re: The Intentional God

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The exceptions? I dont believe that.
I didnt mean they were influenced to believe tho not saying God couldnt influence someone to believe. Was not paul influenced on the road to damascus?
influence
ˈɪnflʊəns/Submit
noun
1.
the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behaviour of someone or something, or the effect itself.
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Re: The Intentional God

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As I said, yes technically there is a real choice but as a parent, we know what to do to get a desired result. Sometimes tho there might be nothing we can do as with God. He does respect our ultimate decision. If we continually say no I guess.
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Re: The Intentional God

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Nessa wrote:The exceptions? I dont believe that.
I didnt mean they were influenced to believe tho not saying God couldnt influence someone to believe. Was not paul influenced on the road to damascus?
influence
ˈɪnflʊəns/Submit
noun
1.
the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behaviour of someone or something, or the effect itself.
Paul believed in God, he didn't believe that Jesus was the messiah, much less the Son of God.
God also had plans for Paul, far beyond those of the "average believer".
We need to realize that some are chosen for special things.
It doesn't make them MORE than other believers, it simply means that God has decided that they have a special role in His plan.
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Re: The Intentional God

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PaulSacramento wrote:
Nessa wrote:The exceptions? I dont believe that.
I didnt mean they were influenced to believe tho not saying God couldnt influence someone to believe. Was not paul influenced on the road to damascus?
influence
ˈɪnflʊəns/Submit
noun
1.m.
the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behaviour of someone or something, or the effect itself.
Paul believed in God, he didn't believe that Jesus was the messiah, much less the Son of God.
God also had plans for Paul, far beyond those of the "average believer".
We need to realize that some are chosen for special things.
It doesn't make them MORE than other believers, it simply means that God has decided that they have a special role in His plan.
God had special plans for mary yet when the disciples said hey your family is over there how did Jesus respond? Special plans dont equate more special people who have less of a choice somehow. We are talking about choices here and that applies to all of us equally.

Unless somehow paul had less of a choice because he was part of God's extra 'special' plan then this applies to paul as much as it does to you and me etc

No such thing as an average believer. We are to compare ourselves to Christ, not each other. We shouldnt look at any other christians as more.uniquely used or more specially chosen. The first shall be last and he who wants to be the most important shall become the least. Theres average tennis players not average christians.
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Re: The Intentional God

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nessa wrote:
No such thing as an average believer. We are to compare ourselves to Christ, not each other. We shouldnt look at any other christians as more.uniquely used or more specially chosen. The first shall be last and he who wants to be the most important shall become the least. Theres average tennis players not average christians.
If I compare myself to Christ, then I'm a waaaaay below-average believer.

Among my friends, I was a pretty good basketball player. Above average even. But not compared to Michael Jordan.

Sheesh! If I have to compare myself to Christ, I might as well throw in the towel now. I've got no chance. I'm so sad. :crying:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Nessa
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Re: The Intentional God

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RickD wrote:
nessa wrote:
No such thing as an average believer. We are to compare ourselves to Christ, not each other. We shouldnt look at any other christians as more.uniquely used or more specially chosen. The first shall be last and he who wants to be the most important shall become the least. Theres average tennis players not average christians.
If I compare myself to Christ, then I'm a waaaaay below-average believer.

Among my friends, I was a pretty good basketball player. Above average even. But not compared to Michael Jordan.

Sheesh! If I have to compare myself to Christ, I might as well throw in the towel now. I've got no chance. I'm so sad. :crying:
This isnt basketball...this isnt a sport..where saying the average player is appropriate.

If we use this term in Christianity its not appropriate. Who is even going to define what an average christian is? Its not benefical. And not biblical. We can be lukewarm cold or hot. Wheres the average in that? lukewarm?
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Re: The Intentional God

Post by RickD »

Not a sport?

Of course it is.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

I'm an average Christian. However I choose to define it. y[-( y:p2
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Nessa
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Re: The Intentional God

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RickD wrote:Not a sport?

Of course it is.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

I'm an average Christian. However I choose to define it. y[-( y:p2
He is not comparing it to a normal sport where you are competing AGAINST each other...his point is running to get the prize. We all can win.

When was the last time you watched a sport and they all won? Who split the trophey up?
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Re: The Intentional God

Post by Nessa »

Its possible we all could win...we might not tho...normal sport makes no allowances for that as far as im aware
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Re: The Intentional God

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The last sport where they all won, was my son's YMCA soccer league. Everyone gets a participation trophy. My son's team went undefeated. They still give him the same meaningless trophy as the team who didn't win any games.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Re: The Intentional God

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RickD wrote:The last sport where they all won, was my son's YMCA soccer league. Everyone gets a participation trophy. My son's team went undefeated. They still give him the same meaningless trophy as the team who didn't win any games.
And they werent competing against one another right?
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