Mel,
Just curious...
You mentioned the majority of refugees are xxx
But the link you posted, lists "registered" refugees. Since you've been studying this, is there a difference between registered, and actual?
Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
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RickD
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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B. W.
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
Oh the lovely peaceful religion of Islam...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... ashes.html
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... ashes.html
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
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melanie
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
There is no difference Rick.
A refugee is a person who has fled their country due persecution, war and genuine fear for their safety.
I think it's important to correctly understand the terminology.
An asylum seeker is someone that is seeking asylum in another country, they could be but are not always refugees. They may be an economic migrant who is someone who leaves his or her country of origin purely for financial and/or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to move in order to find a better life and they do not flee because of persecution. Therefore they do not fall within the criteria of refugee status and are not entitled to receive international protection.
All refugees are asylum seekers, who are protected under international law.
The 1951 Refugee Convention determines the technical definition of a refugee. This determines who is a migrant and who is genuinely a refugee. Most countries rely on the UNHCR to do the initial screening, although countries like Australia also rely on their own discretion when determining who is granted refugee status here out of the many illegal immigrants seeking asylum.
Refugees are not those people internally displaced within their own country due to conflict, although they may end up as such. There are estimated 7 million internally displaced people within Syria. Fleeing one area and relocating to a safer part of the country.
As soon as a person leaves the borders of their country and enters into another, they become illegal immigrants. Seeking asylum in another country. They would be legally turned around and sent home if not for protection under international law as refugees. Because of the war in Syria and the devasting effects on the people they are under UN law and genuine refugees.
They are crossing over into countries like Lebanon and Jordan in massive numbers. Many enter straight into the set up refugee camps although not all. As soon as they make entry into another country they register with the United Nations High Commission of Refugees, who are on the ground, in the camps to deal with it. It makes no sense to not register. As it protects them. They are fleeing as refugees to obtain refugee status and seek asylum elsewhere. If they do not register then they are not able to legally remain or legally be included in the intake of refugees from neighbouring countries.
As we have so tragically seen, some legitimate refugee still seek to get to countries who have not agreed to take them on. Aylan, the three year old boy whose body washed up on the shore is one such example and it was the catalyst that made countries like Australia and America pull their finger out and help relieve this burden that is crippling counties like Lebanon.
Aylan was already a refugee in Turkey but his family were trying to make it to Canada. They took a big risk and paid a terrible price. All one needs to do is look into the living conditions of refugees outside of the camps to understand why they would take such a risk. The conditions inside the camps are just as bad, but at least they have food and water provided by the UN and charity organisations.
Jordan's Za'atari was the first official refugee camp that opened in 2012, a large number of newly arrived refugees head to Za'atari, with many staying but others moving along to other camps or neighbouring countries. There are over 80,000 living in this camp alone. This makes it Jordan's fourth largest city. Well a tent city in the desert. The camps are run by the UN and government.
Many find the conditions in the camp far from ideal and move elsewhere, but there are major struggles outside of the camps. They are not allowed to legally work in Jordan or Lebanon so it is impossible for them to pay rent, the ones that do manage to find work illegally are paid peanuts and exploited not earning enough to cover basic needs. Many live in abandoned buildings, chicken coops, storage sheds ect.
It has been said that 'why are neighbouring countries not helping, we is it the west's responsibility?"
This is another clear indication to me that whilst people have a very vocal opinion about Syrian Refugees that don't really understand the situation at all.
This situation has been happening since the 2011 Arab spring protests in Syria. For anyone that doesn't know about it, please read up on it as it is extremely important to understanding this conflict.
Briefly Arab Spring refers to the democratic uprisings that arose independently by the people and spread across the Arab world in 2011. The movement started in Tunisia in December 2010 and quickly extended to include Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. It was an uprising of the people against tyrannical dictatorships and injustice. It was the people pushing for democracy. Whilst some countries where successful although dictorships have emerged since then anyway, the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad declared the repeal of an emergency law that had been in place since 1963 which allowed the government authority to suspend constitutional rights. He sent tanks into the streets and open fired on the demonstrators. Those demonstrators were protesting for their rights like freedom of speech, freedom of the press, equal rights for Kurds ect and for al-Assad to step down. Water and electricity were shut off in some areas and security forces took their food and flour in the areas where people were resisting the most.
Those opposed to the government and this treatment took up arms and started fighting back and to push the security forces out of their towns. Violence escalated until it boiled over into civil war.
250,000 people have died.
There are huge violations of human rights with rape and torture occurring at alarming levels.
It is not only about those for and against al-Assad, it ignited tension between the presidents Shia Alawite sect and the majority Sunni population.
Hundreds of people were killed in August 2013 after rockets filled with nerve agent sarin were fired at districts around Damascus.
If this wasn't bad enough Islamic State has waged a campaign of terror in northern and eastern Syria. It has taken advantage of a country in the midst of civil war to try and take rule which would be much worse than the current government. Those that have opposed Islamic State have been public executed or had limbs amputated. It's fighters have killed countless on both sides, armed groups, security forces, religious minorities and several westerners. They do not represent any side in the civil war but are furthering their own agenda.
So getting back to the question of what are other Arab nations doing after my brief
run down of the conflict, they are pushed to breaking point. It should be noted that not all nations are accepting refugees but out of the ones that are; Turkey has taken nearly 2 million, Iraq over 240,000, Egypt over 130,000, Jordan 630,000 and Lebanon nearly 1.2 million making one in five people in Lebanon a refugee.
This crisis has been happening for 4 years and is the biggest refugee crisis since Rwanda. It is obvious to understand why these people are fleeing Syria. It is a case of get out or die.
There is no reason as to why they would not register as refugees as it entitles them the ability to feed their families, and the prospect of gaining asylum in another country.
From the many videos and stories I have read from Syrian refugees they all say they just want to go home, but they can't. If they had the choice they would live in peace in their homeland.
Children deserve to grow up without the threat of war, death and fear.
They deserve the right to an education but many of them have not been able to attend school for years.
That is why is makes me angry when people say that they are just trying to get to the west to infiltrate. It is misguided, uninformed and quite ridiculous when you understand why they are fleeing. They want to live in peace and safety.
This conflict started because 15 kids wrote anti government graffiti on a wall in Dara'a and they were abused and thrown in jail. The country said enough and the Arab spring protests were ignited from this incident.
The people wanted freedom and democracy.
It is utterly absurd to suggest that these same Syrian refugees would come to the west as an evil agenda to take our democracy.
A refugee is a person who has fled their country due persecution, war and genuine fear for their safety.
I think it's important to correctly understand the terminology.
An asylum seeker is someone that is seeking asylum in another country, they could be but are not always refugees. They may be an economic migrant who is someone who leaves his or her country of origin purely for financial and/or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to move in order to find a better life and they do not flee because of persecution. Therefore they do not fall within the criteria of refugee status and are not entitled to receive international protection.
All refugees are asylum seekers, who are protected under international law.
The 1951 Refugee Convention determines the technical definition of a refugee. This determines who is a migrant and who is genuinely a refugee. Most countries rely on the UNHCR to do the initial screening, although countries like Australia also rely on their own discretion when determining who is granted refugee status here out of the many illegal immigrants seeking asylum.
Refugees are not those people internally displaced within their own country due to conflict, although they may end up as such. There are estimated 7 million internally displaced people within Syria. Fleeing one area and relocating to a safer part of the country.
As soon as a person leaves the borders of their country and enters into another, they become illegal immigrants. Seeking asylum in another country. They would be legally turned around and sent home if not for protection under international law as refugees. Because of the war in Syria and the devasting effects on the people they are under UN law and genuine refugees.
They are crossing over into countries like Lebanon and Jordan in massive numbers. Many enter straight into the set up refugee camps although not all. As soon as they make entry into another country they register with the United Nations High Commission of Refugees, who are on the ground, in the camps to deal with it. It makes no sense to not register. As it protects them. They are fleeing as refugees to obtain refugee status and seek asylum elsewhere. If they do not register then they are not able to legally remain or legally be included in the intake of refugees from neighbouring countries.
As we have so tragically seen, some legitimate refugee still seek to get to countries who have not agreed to take them on. Aylan, the three year old boy whose body washed up on the shore is one such example and it was the catalyst that made countries like Australia and America pull their finger out and help relieve this burden that is crippling counties like Lebanon.
Aylan was already a refugee in Turkey but his family were trying to make it to Canada. They took a big risk and paid a terrible price. All one needs to do is look into the living conditions of refugees outside of the camps to understand why they would take such a risk. The conditions inside the camps are just as bad, but at least they have food and water provided by the UN and charity organisations.
Jordan's Za'atari was the first official refugee camp that opened in 2012, a large number of newly arrived refugees head to Za'atari, with many staying but others moving along to other camps or neighbouring countries. There are over 80,000 living in this camp alone. This makes it Jordan's fourth largest city. Well a tent city in the desert. The camps are run by the UN and government.
Many find the conditions in the camp far from ideal and move elsewhere, but there are major struggles outside of the camps. They are not allowed to legally work in Jordan or Lebanon so it is impossible for them to pay rent, the ones that do manage to find work illegally are paid peanuts and exploited not earning enough to cover basic needs. Many live in abandoned buildings, chicken coops, storage sheds ect.
It has been said that 'why are neighbouring countries not helping, we is it the west's responsibility?"
This is another clear indication to me that whilst people have a very vocal opinion about Syrian Refugees that don't really understand the situation at all.
This situation has been happening since the 2011 Arab spring protests in Syria. For anyone that doesn't know about it, please read up on it as it is extremely important to understanding this conflict.
Briefly Arab Spring refers to the democratic uprisings that arose independently by the people and spread across the Arab world in 2011. The movement started in Tunisia in December 2010 and quickly extended to include Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. It was an uprising of the people against tyrannical dictatorships and injustice. It was the people pushing for democracy. Whilst some countries where successful although dictorships have emerged since then anyway, the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad declared the repeal of an emergency law that had been in place since 1963 which allowed the government authority to suspend constitutional rights. He sent tanks into the streets and open fired on the demonstrators. Those demonstrators were protesting for their rights like freedom of speech, freedom of the press, equal rights for Kurds ect and for al-Assad to step down. Water and electricity were shut off in some areas and security forces took their food and flour in the areas where people were resisting the most.
Those opposed to the government and this treatment took up arms and started fighting back and to push the security forces out of their towns. Violence escalated until it boiled over into civil war.
250,000 people have died.
There are huge violations of human rights with rape and torture occurring at alarming levels.
It is not only about those for and against al-Assad, it ignited tension between the presidents Shia Alawite sect and the majority Sunni population.
Hundreds of people were killed in August 2013 after rockets filled with nerve agent sarin were fired at districts around Damascus.
If this wasn't bad enough Islamic State has waged a campaign of terror in northern and eastern Syria. It has taken advantage of a country in the midst of civil war to try and take rule which would be much worse than the current government. Those that have opposed Islamic State have been public executed or had limbs amputated. It's fighters have killed countless on both sides, armed groups, security forces, religious minorities and several westerners. They do not represent any side in the civil war but are furthering their own agenda.
So getting back to the question of what are other Arab nations doing after my brief
run down of the conflict, they are pushed to breaking point. It should be noted that not all nations are accepting refugees but out of the ones that are; Turkey has taken nearly 2 million, Iraq over 240,000, Egypt over 130,000, Jordan 630,000 and Lebanon nearly 1.2 million making one in five people in Lebanon a refugee. This crisis has been happening for 4 years and is the biggest refugee crisis since Rwanda. It is obvious to understand why these people are fleeing Syria. It is a case of get out or die.
There is no reason as to why they would not register as refugees as it entitles them the ability to feed their families, and the prospect of gaining asylum in another country.
From the many videos and stories I have read from Syrian refugees they all say they just want to go home, but they can't. If they had the choice they would live in peace in their homeland.
Children deserve to grow up without the threat of war, death and fear.
They deserve the right to an education but many of them have not been able to attend school for years.
That is why is makes me angry when people say that they are just trying to get to the west to infiltrate. It is misguided, uninformed and quite ridiculous when you understand why they are fleeing. They want to live in peace and safety.
This conflict started because 15 kids wrote anti government graffiti on a wall in Dara'a and they were abused and thrown in jail. The country said enough and the Arab spring protests were ignited from this incident.
The people wanted freedom and democracy.
It is utterly absurd to suggest that these same Syrian refugees would come to the west as an evil agenda to take our democracy.
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Philip
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
It's true, most DO want to come to a place where they can live in peace, have more opportunities. But it most certainly is NOT wrong to say that there are many entities (terrorist cells, etc.) with nefarious motives who not doubt are trying (and likely succeeding) at exploiting this situation to sneak in amongst these unfortunates. This means we have to be extremely careful how this is handled, that people are screened. Just because people are concerned about security and safety considerations does not mean they don't want to help people in need.It is utterly absurd to suggest that these same Syrian refugees would come to the west as an evil agenda to take our democracy.
The other thing that really gets me is when the U.S. is vilified for not letting more immigrants in. Do you realize that we let in more than just about any other country. So, people should criticize their own country's immigration rate before bashing the U.S. over ours. And, year after year, what nation sits atop the most generous at charitable giving? Yep! What about foreign aid? Right again! Disaster relief? Yep!
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melanie
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
Philip wrote:It's true, most DO want to come to a place where they can live in peace, have more opportunities. But it most certainly is NOT wrong to say that there are many entities (terrorist cells, etc.) with nefarious motives who not doubt are trying (and likely succeeding) at exploiting this situation to sneak in amongst these unfortunates. This means we have to be extremely careful how this is handled, that people are screened. Just because people are concerned about security and safety considerations does not mean they don't want to help people in need.It is utterly absurd to suggest that these same Syrian refugees would come to the west as an evil agenda to take our democracy.
The other thing that really gets me is when the U.S. is vilified for not letting more immigrants in. Do you realize that we let in more than just about any other country. So, people should criticize their own country's immigration rate before bashing the U.S. over ours. And, year after year, what nation sits atop the most generous at charitable giving? Yep! What about foreign aid? Right again! Disaster relief? Yep!
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melanie
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
Absolutely Philip, screening is very important. A country has not only the right but obligation to carefully examine which refugees they allow in.Philip wrote:It's true, most DO want to come to a place where they can live in peace, have more opportunities. But it most certainly is NOT wrong to say that there are many entities (terrorist cells, etc.) with nefarious motives who not doubt are trying (and likely succeeding) at exploiting this situation to sneak in amongst these unfortunates. This means we have to be extremely careful how this is handled, that people are screened. Just because people are concerned about security and safety considerations does not mean they don't want to help people in need.It is utterly absurd to suggest that these same Syrian refugees would come to the west as an evil agenda to take our democracy.
The other thing that really gets me is when the U.S. is vilified for not letting more immigrants in. Do you realize that we let in more than just about any other country. So, people should criticize their own country's immigration rate before bashing the U.S. over ours. And, year after year, what nation sits atop the most generous at charitable giving? Yep! What about foreign aid? Right again! Disaster relief? Yep!
People have every right to be concerned. I have no beef with that at all.
I am addressing those people that think that Syrian refugees should not be helped at all, none let into countries such as Australia and America because they are Muslim.
That sentiment has been quite vocal in this thread, I am addressing that ideology directly.
This thread was never about the majority of Syrian Refugees being genuine and seeking safety and peace although it being vitally important to screen so as to prevent any Islamic State extremists slipping through the process.
I would never have taken offence to that Philip because I agree.
What the issue has been is allowing any refugee in because they are NOT seeking safety but rather seeking to infiltrate the west with an evil agenda. Brushing every single Syrian refugee with this brush. Re read the thread, it is glaringly obvious.
That is what is wrong!
Australia has one of the worst reputations for taking in refugees, much worse than the U.S.
We refuse genuine refugees quite frequently which is against International law. We also detain them in sub human conditions.
I would vilify my own country before America. You guys have a much better history in this regard than us.
In the instance of Syrian refugees, after this occurring for over 4 years and other nations at breaking point under the strain I'm just glad that countries like Australia and America are finally doing something to help. Sadly it took a little boy's body washing up on the shore.
Edit.
I have gone over the thread and I can't see anyone bashing the U.S. over their immigration rate. So I will presume you meant in general??
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Philip
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
Yes, Mel, in general. And I do admire your compassion for these desparate souls. They are not the enemy. Most are non-Christians deceived by religion. They need the Lord.I have gone over the thread and I can't see anyone bashing the U.S. over their immigration rate. So I will presume you meant in general??
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melanie
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
Amen to that PhilipPhilip wrote:Yes, Mel, in general. And I do admire your compassion for these desparate souls. They are not the enemy. Most are non-Christians deceived by religion. They need the Lord.I have gone over the thread and I can't see anyone bashing the U.S. over their immigration rate. So I will presume you meant in general??
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abelcainsbrother
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
Melanie has changed my mind about the Syrian refugees.I did come across like I hate all muslims when it is Sharia Law that I despise.I also came across like I have no compassion for what these refugess are going through,when I do.It is Sharia Law that I'm against and the silent and violent Jihad coming to the west.I know that both moderate and radical muslims feel like there are things they must do to speed up the Majde's return,they believe it speeds up his return and for him to not only come but to convert the world to Islam and with Jesus Christ with him who they say denies he is the son of God.Yes people in other religions can be terrorists but muslims attack any other religion whether it be Christians, Buddhists,Hindu's,Jews,atheists,etc unlike the other religions.And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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edwardmurphy
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
That's not about religion, it's about our foreign policy.abelcainsbrother wrote:And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.
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Philip
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
abelcainsbrother wrote: And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.
Well, how about this: It SHOULD include foreign policy calculated to prevent people with - yes, dangerous religious views and motivations - from being able to enter the country.EdwardMurphy: That's not about religion, it's about our foreign policy.
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edwardmurphy
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and I all agree with you about the importance of keeping people with dangerous religious views and motivations out of the country. I bet Bernie Sanders agrees as well. However, immigration policy is part of our domestic policy. I wasn't talking about that.Philip wrote:abelcainsbrother wrote: And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.Well, how about this: It SHOULD include foreign policy calculated to prevent people with - yes, dangerous religious views and motivations - from being able to enter the country.EdwardMurphy: That's not about religion, it's about our foreign policy.
I doubt that our enemies in the Middle East care about our domestic policy at all. They don't want to come here - they hate us. What they want is for us go away and leave them alone, which is pretty much the opposite of what we've been doing for the last 75 years. And that is the root of the problem.
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edwardmurphy
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
edwardmurphy wrote:Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and I all agree with you about the importance of keeping people with dangerous religious views and motivations out of the country. As do the FBI, CIA, NSA, INS, DHS, and another dozen agencies that I can't think of off-hand. I bet Bernie Sanders agrees as well. Your statement is neither new nor controversial. However, immigration policy is part of our domestic policy. I wasn't talking about that.Philip wrote:abelcainsbrother wrote: And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.Well, how about this: It SHOULD include foreign policy calculated to prevent people with - yes, dangerous religious views and motivations - from being able to enter the country.EdwardMurphy: That's not about religion, it's about our foreign policy.
I doubt that our enemies in the Middle East care about our domestic policy at all. They don't want to come here - they hate us. What they want is for us go away and leave them alone, which is pretty much the opposite of what we've been doing for the last 75 years. And that is the root of the problem.
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edwardmurphy
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
edwardmurphy wrote:edwardmurphy wrote:Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and I all agree with you about the importance of keeping people with dangerous religious views and motivations out of the country. As do the FBI, CIA, NSA, INS, DHS, and another dozen agencies that I can't think of off-hand. I bet Bernie Sanders agrees as well. Your statement is position new nor controversial. However, immigration policy is part of our domestic policy. I wasn't talking about that.Philip wrote:abelcainsbrother wrote: And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.Well, how about this: It SHOULD include foreign policy calculated to prevent people with - yes, dangerous religious views and motivations - from being able to enter the country.EdwardMurphy: That's not about religion, it's about our foreign policy.
I doubt that our enemies in the Middle East care about our domestic policy at all. They don't want to come here - they hate us. What they want is for us go away and leave them alone, which is pretty much the opposite of what we've been doing for the last 75 years. And that is the root of the problem.
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edwardmurphy
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Re: Greatest Threat to Australia, Europe, and America
Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and I all agree with you about the importance of keeping people with dangerous religious views and motivations out of the country. As do the FBI, CIA, NSA, INS, DHS, and another dozen agencies that I can't think of off-hand. I bet Bernie Sanders agrees as well. Your position neither new nor controversial. However, immigration policy is part of our domestic policy. I wasn't talking about that.edwardmurphy wrote:edwardmurphy wrote:edwardmurphy wrote:Philip wrote:abelcainsbrother wrote: And polls all across the Middle East show a hatred for Israel and the jews and the west and specifically America.It is just not wise to invite Jihad into your country.Well, how about this: It SHOULD include foreign policy calculated to prevent people with - yes, dangerous religious views and motivations - from being able to enter the country.EdwardMurphy: That's not about religion, it's about our foreign policy.
I doubt that our enemies in the Middle East care about our domestic policy at all. They don't want to come here - they hate us. What they want is for us go away and leave them alone, which is pretty much the opposite of what we've been doing for the last 75 years. And that is the root of the problem.