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[abelcainsbrother]

Allow me to rephrase:

Apocalyptic predictions predate Christianity.

Although they're not technically apocalyptic. Doomsday scenarios?

Anyway, I apologize for the deliberately provocative statement. My point was simple that the end of the world is predicted pretty frequently by people from all different religions and that's been happening for a long, long, long time. Consequently, many people don't take that stuff seriously, myself obviously included.

Wow! You just helped prove bible prophecy is true. Let me show you 2nd Peter 3:3-4 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the LAST DAYS scoffers,walking after their own lusts,And saying,Where is the promise of his coming?for since the fathers fell asleep(evolution)all things continue as they were from the beginning." You're just another sign we are in the last days,now this is just one sign and there are many more that you are not aware of. You and people like you are just that much more proof the bible is true and being fulfilled in these last days and this gets back to my earlier point about being comforted spiritually despite the things that are happening that can be depressing physically. You are scoffing at the idea of Christ's return believing all things have gone on continually and because our fathers died because of evolution. Them hominids are our fathers,don't ya know?

I just wish that you understand that nothing can ever "defeat evolution". The gap theory can never do it because it's a belief, not science.

The only things that can prove evolution wrong are any predictions going false, a problem in the fossil record and an issue in the DNA record. And FYI, all three prove evolution without a doubt.

And these are not the last times. Christians have been saying that since Paul's time.

I know you think that but you let an evolutionist get up in front of a big group of people in a debate The Gap Theory vs the theory of evolution and when the evolutionists is defeated soundly it will effect evolution. Like for instance the Ken Ham vs Bill Nye debate it was young earth creationism vs Evolution and it was a tie at best,but up against a knowledgable Gap Theorist evolution is soundly defeated unlike with young earth creationism,Intelligent Design,etc. The Gap Theory is the only creation interpretation that has soundly defeated evolutionists in debates and did so in debates in Universities in the 1980's. If you think it won't effect evolution to be soundly defeated in debates then I beg to differ.Science will be forced to either demonstrate life evolves finally or it will lose popularity once people see it defeated soundly and it might lead to a revival too.

I am baffled that you think it's a matter of public perception and opinion. That just shows me you really don't know what you are criticizing, although you may think you do but self-assurance is hardly relevant here. An evolutionist sounding, defeated changes nothing, the same way a YEC sounding to win, means anything.

Public opinion does matter if the people reject evolution for a more believable theory it will effect evolution. a young Earth creationist has never defeated an evolutionists in a debate,niether has Intelligent Design,it is a tie at best and comes down to who a person chooses to believe which is one reason the theory of evolution is still here. You are under-estimating the Gap Theory and how it is a more believable theory once all of the evidence is laid out for all to see.Not only is the Gap Theory a more believable theory but Gap theorists are better at explaining why evolution is wrong and exposing the weaknesses of evolution than YEC's,etc are.

[neo-x]

Wow! You just helped prove bible prophecy is true. Let me show you 2nd Peter 3:3-4 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the LAST DAYS scoffers,walking after their own lusts,And saying,Where is the promise of his coming?for since the fathers fell asleep(evolution)all things continue as they were from the beginning." You're just another sign we are in the last days,now this is just one sign and there are many more that you are not aware of. You and people like you are just that much more proof the bible is true and being fulfilled in these last days and this gets back to my earlier point about being comforted spiritually despite the things that are happening that can be depressing physically. You are scoffing at the idea of Christ's return believing all things have gone on continually and because our fathers died because of evolution. Them hominids are our fathers,don't ya know?

I just wish that you understand that nothing can ever "defeat evolution". The gap theory can never do it because it's a belief, not science.

The only things that can prove evolution wrong are any predictions going false, a problem in the fossil record and an issue in the DNA record. And FYI, all three prove evolution without a doubt.

And these are not the last times. Christians have been saying that since Paul's time.

I know you think that but you let an evolutionist get up in front of a big group of people in a debate The Gap Theory vs the theory of evolution and when the evolutionists is defeated soundly it will effect evolution. Like for instance the Ken Ham vs Bill Nye debate it was young earth creationism vs Evolution and it was a tie at best,but up against a knowledgable Gap Theorist evolution is soundly defeated unlike with young earth creationism,Intelligent Design,etc. The Gap Theory is the only creation interpretation that has soundly defeated evolutionists in debates and did so in debates in Universities in the 1980's. If you think it won't effect evolution to be soundly defeated in debates then I beg to differ.Science will be forced to either demonstrate life evolves finally or it will lose popularity once people see it defeated soundly and it might lead to a revival too.

I am baffled that you think it's a matter of public perception and opinion. That just shows me you really don't know what you are criticizing, although you may think you do but self-assurance is hardly relevant here. An evolutionist sounding, defeated changes nothing, the same way a YEC sounding to win, means anything.

Public opinion does matter if the people reject evolution for a more believable theory it will effect evolution.

Who told you that?

[abelcainsbrother]

I just wish that you understand that nothing can ever "defeat evolution". The gap theory can never do it because it's a belief, not science.

The only things that can prove evolution wrong are any predictions going false, a problem in the fossil record and an issue in the DNA record. And FYI, all three prove evolution without a doubt.

And these are not the last times. Christians have been saying that since Paul's time.

I know you think that but you let an evolutionist get up in front of a big group of people in a debate The Gap Theory vs the theory of evolution and when the evolutionists is defeated soundly it will effect evolution. Like for instance the Ken Ham vs Bill Nye debate it was young earth creationism vs Evolution and it was a tie at best,but up against a knowledgable Gap Theorist evolution is soundly defeated unlike with young earth creationism,Intelligent Design,etc. The Gap Theory is the only creation interpretation that has soundly defeated evolutionists in debates and did so in debates in Universities in the 1980's. If you think it won't effect evolution to be soundly defeated in debates then I beg to differ.Science will be forced to either demonstrate life evolves finally or it will lose popularity once people see it defeated soundly and it might lead to a revival too.

I am baffled that you think it's a matter of public perception and opinion. That just shows me you really don't know what you are criticizing, although you may think you do but self-assurance is hardly relevant here. An evolutionist sounding, defeated changes nothing, the same way a YEC sounding to win, means anything.

Public opinion does matter if the people reject evolution for a more believable theory it will effect evolution.

Who told you that?

I know it is true it is kindof like if you open up a business and you have competition to compete against,its the same principle you must find a way to attract customers or you'll sink.It will not be good for evolution for a more believable theory to be revealed more believable than the theory of evolution. Nobody told me,it is just something I know.the thing is though is it has not happened yet and it remains to be seen if it will,so evolution is safe for now,until some knowledgable Gap Theorist steps up to the plate so-to-speak.

[neo-x]

I know you think that but you let an evolutionist get up in front of a big group of people in a debate The Gap Theory vs the theory of evolution and when the evolutionists is defeated soundly it will effect evolution. Like for instance the Ken Ham vs Bill Nye debate it was young earth creationism vs Evolution and it was a tie at best,but up against a knowledgable Gap Theorist evolution is soundly defeated unlike with young earth creationism,Intelligent Design,etc. The Gap Theory is the only creation interpretation that has soundly defeated evolutionists in debates and did so in debates in Universities in the 1980's. If you think it won't effect evolution to be soundly defeated in debates then I beg to differ.Science will be forced to either demonstrate life evolves finally or it will lose popularity once people see it defeated soundly and it might lead to a revival too.

I am baffled that you think it's a matter of public perception and opinion. That just shows me you really don't know what you are criticizing, although you may think you do but self-assurance is hardly relevant here. An evolutionist sounding, defeated changes nothing, the same way a YEC sounding to win, means anything.

Public opinion does matter if the people reject evolution for a more believable theory it will effect evolution.

Who told you that?

I know it is true it is kindof like if you open up a business and you have competition to compete against,its the same principle you must find a way to attract customers or you'll sink.It will not be good for evolution for a more believable theory to be revealed more believable than the theory of evolution. Nobody told me,it is just something I know.the thing is though is it has not happened yet and it remains to be seen if it will,so evolution is safe for now,until some knowledgable Gap Theorist steps up to the plate so-to-speak.

I don't think you realize how redundant this is. Evolution is based in evidence, a ton of it actually, not in belief as the GT is. You are comparing apples and oranges. And that is why no one has even been able to prove evolution wrong. You can't defeat a science theory with a debate or public likeness. Please let that sink in.

[abelcainsbrother]

I am baffled that you think it's a matter of public perception and opinion. That just shows me you really don't know what you are criticizing, although you may think you do but self-assurance is hardly relevant here. An evolutionist sounding, defeated changes nothing, the same way a YEC sounding to win, means anything.

Public opinion does matter if the people reject evolution for a more believable theory it will effect evolution.

Who told you that?

I know it is true it is kindof like if you open up a business and you have competition to compete against,its the same principle you must find a way to attract customers or you'll sink.It will not be good for evolution for a more believable theory to be revealed more believable than the theory of evolution. Nobody told me,it is just something I know.the thing is though is it has not happened yet and it remains to be seen if it will,so evolution is safe for now,until some knowledgable Gap Theorist steps up to the plate so-to-speak.

I don't think you realize how redundant this is. Evolution is based in evidence, a ton of it actually, not in belief as the GT is. You are comparing apples and oranges. And that is why no one has even been able to prove evolution wrong. You can't defeat a science theory with a debate or public likeness. Please let that sink in.

I beg to differ.Public perception is very important. Are you saying that if evolution is defeated and people in droves realize how wrong it is for a more believable theory it won't effect science?I mean sure die-harders might remain but thats all.Evidence changes peoples minds more than you seem to think and everybody knows how much evidence is behind evolution but unlike in court you won't be able to just place a bunch of evidence up on the table and win just based on quantity over quality evidence. quality evidence will still outshine a quantity of evidence that does not demonstrate life evolves but actually demonstrates that God created life to breed and produce after its kind. This is all you'll find with the peer reviewed evidence used for evidence life evolves and they use it for both micro and macro-evolution too,while telling you it evolved. anyway this is not an anti-evolution thread but evolution has problems.

[neo-x]

Public opinion does matter if the people reject evolution for a more believable theory it will effect evolution.

Who told you that?

I know it is true it is kindof like if you open up a business and you have competition to compete against,its the same principle you must find a way to attract customers or you'll sink.It will not be good for evolution for a more believable theory to be revealed more believable than the theory of evolution. Nobody told me,it is just something I know.the thing is though is it has not happened yet and it remains to be seen if it will,so evolution is safe for now,until some knowledgable Gap Theorist steps up to the plate so-to-speak.

I don't think you realize how redundant this is. Evolution is based in evidence, a ton of it actually, not in belief as the GT is. You are comparing apples and oranges. And that is why no one has even been able to prove evolution wrong. You can't defeat a science theory with a debate or public likeness. Please let that sink in.

I beg to differ.Public perception is very important. Are you saying that if evolution is defeated and people in droves realize how wrong it is for a more believable theory it won't effect science?

What you fail to grasp, and what I am repeating again, is that you can only show evolution to be wrong when there is a problem in the evolutionary theory. That is the only way anyone can ever, like forever ever, challenge evolution or any other science theory. To show that either the data or its predictions are wrong. Public acceptance has nothing to do with it.

Let say tomorrow all of the world accepts Gap theory, even then it will not change the fact that GT is just that, a belief. And evolution would still be true because, in order to defeat it, you need to come up with something that can falsify existing data. And the problem is, there is no data to counter the existing ones. All roads lead to it.

I am sorry, but I find the reasoning you gave to be immature, and your argument based in fantasy. It has no bearing on reality. The truth will remain truth regardless of how many people accept it or not.

Scientific theories have evidence to back them up. They are not based on opinion as you seem to think.

[abelcainsbrother]

Who told you that?

I know it is true it is kindof like if you open up a business and you have competition to compete against,its the same principle you must find a way to attract customers or you'll sink.It will not be good for evolution for a more believable theory to be revealed more believable than the theory of evolution. Nobody told me,it is just something I know.the thing is though is it has not happened yet and it remains to be seen if it will,so evolution is safe for now,until some knowledgable Gap Theorist steps up to the plate so-to-speak.

I don't think you realize how redundant this is. Evolution is based in evidence, a ton of it actually, not in belief as the GT is. You are comparing apples and oranges. And that is why no one has even been able to prove evolution wrong. You can't defeat a science theory with a debate or public likeness. Please let that sink in.

I beg to differ.Public perception is very important. Are you saying that if evolution is defeated and people in droves realize how wrong it is for a more believable theory it won't effect science?

What you fail to grasp, and what I am repeating again, is that you can only show evolution to be wrong when there is a problem in the evolutionary theory. That is the only way anyone can ever, like forever ever, challenge evolution or any other science theory. To show that either the data or its predictions are wrong. Public acceptance has nothing to do with it.

Let say tomorrow all of the world accepts Gap theory, even then it will not change the fact that GT is just that, a belief. And evolution would still be true because, in order to defeat it, you need to come up with something that can falsify existing data. And the problem is, there is no data to counter the existing ones. All roads lead to it.

I am sorry, but I find the reasoning you gave to be immature, and your argument based in fantasy. It has no bearing on reality. The truth will remain truth regardless of how many people accept it or not.

Scientific theories have evidence to back them up. They are not based on opinion as you seem to think.

There is not one scientist that has ever demonstrated life evolves yet scientists have lied and said life evolved using peer reviewed evidence that only demonstrates that God created life to breed and produce after its kind. If you think this won't give science problems?It will. Especially when a more believable theory is put forth with evidence to back it up. What you seem to be saying is science will dig its heels in and try to hide behind peer reviewed evidence and they might,but with so many people realizing how duped they were it will force science's hand. Anyway I think we'll have to agree to disagree but like I said before if knowledgable Gap Theorists ever step up to the plate like in the 1980's evolution will finally be defeated by creationism in debate after debate to the point that Evolutionists will probably refuse to debate anymore,just like way back then. I know you doubt it but your used to seeing evolution hold its own in debates.

[RickD]

ACB,

Just curious...

Why are you on a crusade to disprove evolution?

Evolution (even if all it entails is true), does not mean God doesn't exist.

[neo-x]

I know it is true it is kindof like if you open up a business and you have competition to compete against,its the same principle you must find a way to attract customers or you'll sink.It will not be good for evolution for a more believable theory to be revealed more believable than the theory of evolution. Nobody told me,it is just something I know.the thing is though is it has not happened yet and it remains to be seen if it will,so evolution is safe for now,until some knowledgable Gap Theorist steps up to the plate so-to-speak.

I don't think you realize how redundant this is. Evolution is based in evidence, a ton of it actually, not in belief as the GT is. You are comparing apples and oranges. And that is why no one has even been able to prove evolution wrong. You can't defeat a science theory with a debate or public likeness. Please let that sink in.

I beg to differ.Public perception is very important. Are you saying that if evolution is defeated and people in droves realize how wrong it is for a more believable theory it won't effect science?

What you fail to grasp, and what I am repeating again, is that you can only show evolution to be wrong when there is a problem in the evolutionary theory. That is the only way anyone can ever, like forever ever, challenge evolution or any other science theory. To show that either the data or its predictions are wrong. Public acceptance has nothing to do with it.

Let say tomorrow all of the world accepts Gap theory, even then it will not change the fact that GT is just that, a belief. And evolution would still be true because, in order to defeat it, you need to come up with something that can falsify existing data. And the problem is, there is no data to counter the existing ones. All roads lead to it.

I am sorry, but I find the reasoning you gave to be immature, and your argument based in fantasy. It has no bearing on reality. The truth will remain truth regardless of how many people accept it or not.

Scientific theories have evidence to back them up. They are not based on opinion as you seem to think.

There is not one scientist that has ever demonstrated life evolves yet scientists have lied and said life evolved using peer reviewed evidence that only demonsatrates that God created life to breed and produce after its kind. If you think this won't give science problems?It will. Especially when a more believable theory is put forth with evidence to back it up. What you seem to be saying is science will dig its heels in and try to hide behind peer reviewed evidence and they might,but with so many people realizing how duped they were it will force science's hand. Anyway I think we'll have to agree to disagree but like I said before if knowledgable Gap Theorists ever step up to the plate like in the 1980's evolution will finally be defeated by creationism in debate after debate to the point that Evolutionists will probably refuse to debate anymore,just like way back then. I know you doubt it but your used to seeing evolution hold its own in debates.

Actually you are wrong again. I studied it for quite some time and formed my conclusions, I was not moved or impressed with debates, nor I watch debates for getting info or decide my position. That is such a weak way to know about anything, let alone bio-science. I wonder how you can even call it research for making up your positions. Public debates on matters like these are entertainment only for people who get a kick out of seeing the two sides fight. They have the most dumbed down versions of whatever they are defending or arguing. The worst way to get introduced to or study a science theory, is through a debate.

[abelcainsbrother]

ACB,

Just curious...

Why are you on a crusade to disprove evolution?

Evolution (even if all it entails is true), does not mean God doesn't exist.

It's not really about disproving evolution.It's just about shining a light into darkness and revealing the truth. It matters to me if a former world "A Lost World"has been overlooked because of evolution. I believe there is a lost world and we need to know about it and we have evidence that confirms it true.If there is a lost world why should'nt we know about it?

[RickD]

ACB,

Just curious...

Why are you on a crusade to disprove evolution?

Evolution (even if all it entails is true), does not mean God doesn't exist.

It's not really about disproving evolution.It's just about shining a light into darkness and revealing the truth. It matters to me if a former world "A Lost World"has been overlooked because of evolution. I believe there is a lost world and we need to know about it and we have evidence that confirms it true.If there is a lost world why should'nt we know about it?

You mean Atlantis?

[neo-x]

ACB,

Just curious...

Why are you on a crusade to disprove evolution?

Evolution (even if all it entails is true), does not mean God doesn't exist.

It's not really about disproving evolution.It's just about shining a light into darkness and revealing the truth. It matters to me if a former world "A Lost World"has been overlooked because of evolution. I believe there is a lost world and we need to know about it and we have evidence that confirms it true.If there is a lost world why should'nt we know about it?

Oh we have a lost world alright and we need the light of the gospel to save it. But it's a lost world, not the lost world, if you know what I mean.

[abelcainsbrother]

ACB,

Just curious...

Why are you on a crusade to disprove evolution?

Evolution (even if all it entails is true), does not mean God doesn't exist.

It's not really about disproving evolution.It's just about shining a light into darkness and revealing the truth. It matters to me if a former world "A Lost World"has been overlooked because of evolution. I believe there is a lost world and we need to know about it and we have evidence that confirms it true.If there is a lost world why should'nt we know about it?

Oh we have a lost world alright and we need the light of the gospel to save it. But it's a lost world, not the lost world, if you know what I mean.

neo it was a "Lord of the rings" type world based on the kinds of life in the earth.And I got the term "Lord of the rings" from a scientist explaining about some new hominids discovered that they never knew about recently.

[abelcainsbrother]

ACB,

Just curious...

Why are you on a crusade to disprove evolution?

Evolution (even if all it entails is true), does not mean God doesn't exist.

It's not really about disproving evolution.It's just about shining a light into darkness and revealing the truth. It matters to me if a former world "A Lost World"has been overlooked because of evolution. I believe there is a lost world and we need to know about it and we have evidence that confirms it true.If there is a lost world why should'nt we know about it?

You mean Atlantis?

I'll put it this way right now I just look at all of the evidence of death and exctinction in the earth and fossils,but I am starting to think that ancient astronaught theorists have some of our evidence the problem is they look at thesemysterious places around the earth like aliens had something to do with them. But there are all kinds of mysterious places around the earth that COULd be more evidence of the former world. I'm not sure about Atlantis or even if it even really existed,just mysterious structures and places around the earth.

[abelcainsbrother]

I don't think you realize how redundant this is. Evolution is based in evidence, a ton of it actually, not in belief as the GT is. You are comparing apples and oranges. And that is why no one has even been able to prove evolution wrong. You can't defeat a science theory with a debate or public likeness. Please let that sink in.

I beg to differ.Public perception is very important. Are you saying that if evolution is defeated and people in droves realize how wrong it is for a more believable theory it won't effect science?

What you fail to grasp, and what I am repeating again, is that you can only show evolution to be wrong when there is a problem in the evolutionary theory. That is the only way anyone can ever, like forever ever, challenge evolution or any other science theory. To show that either the data or its predictions are wrong. Public acceptance has nothing to do with it.

Let say tomorrow all of the world accepts Gap theory, even then it will not change the fact that GT is just that, a belief. And evolution would still be true because, in order to defeat it, you need to come up with something that can falsify existing data. And the problem is, there is no data to counter the existing ones. All roads lead to it.

I am sorry, but I find the reasoning you gave to be immature, and your argument based in fantasy. It has no bearing on reality. The truth will remain truth regardless of how many people accept it or not.

Scientific theories have evidence to back them up. They are not based on opinion as you seem to think.

There is not one scientist that has ever demonstrated life evolves yet scientists have lied and said life evolved using peer reviewed evidence that only demonsatrates that God created life to breed and produce after its kind. If you think this won't give science problems?It will. Especially when a more believable theory is put forth with evidence to back it up. What you seem to be saying is science will dig its heels in and try to hide behind peer reviewed evidence and they might,but with so many people realizing how duped they were it will force science's hand. Anyway I think we'll have to agree to disagree but like I said before if knowledgable Gap Theorists ever step up to the plate like in the 1980's evolution will finally be defeated by creationism in debate after debate to the point that Evolutionists will probably refuse to debate anymore,just like way back then. I know you doubt it but your used to seeing evolution hold its own in debates.

Actually you are wrong again. I studied it for quite some time and formed my conclusions, I was not moved or impressed with debates, nor I watch debates for getting info or decide my position. That is such a weak way to know about anything, let alone bio-science. I wonder how you can even call it research for making up your positions. Public debates on matters like these are entertainment only for people who get a kick out of seeing the two sides fight. They have the most dumbed down versions of whatever they are defending or arguing. The worst way to get introduced to or study a science theory, is through a debate.

How did Young earth Creationism and Intelligent Design become so popular?Debating evolutionists was part of it,so it could happen for the Gap Theory when it actually defeats evolutionists.