The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Discussions about politics and goings on around the world. (Please keep discussions civil!)
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by RickD »

Storyteller wrote:
Mallz wrote:
I just don`t see all Muslims as mad killers bent on destruction. I just feel we are judging them all based on extremists. Any religion can be interpreted wrongly and abused, doesn`t mean the religion is at fault, just the individuals.
I don't see all Muslims as mad killers/terrorists either. But I do see that with Islam. It is in their creeds to conquer and submit everyone/everything to allah (like how we would say the Father's prayer). And taken seriously produces terrorists. And the thing that I see people keep missing (because they don't do any research upon the matter), is that Islam is the problem. Not necessarily Muslims. Many Muslims are cultural Muslims that enjoy their cultural heritage and expressions. W/e. They aren't following Islam. Guess what? Most people aren't following what they prescribe to and identify with either.
As Christians (and even non Christians) are we not guilty of prejudice and ignorance if we just assume that anyone who follows Islam is a terrorist?
Yes. But that's not what is being put forward. I don't see B.W. saying this, either.
Then I apologize for misinterpreting things.

I know very little about Islam so I probably don`t really have a right to comment, it just seemed to be anti Islam and anti Muslim.
Are they really told to conquer with force? What sort of god would demand that?

Generally, here in the UK, we don`t get a lot of friction between Muslims and other religions. In fact, there have been many cases where Muslims are appalled at what is being done in the name of Islam.

So are you saying that if someone really wants to follow Islam then they should be following what the extremists preach? (And I mean that in the sense of being true to what the faith preaches rather than morally etc)
Storyteller,

Now you're starting to ask the right questions.

Are they told to conquer with force?
Read the Koran and Hadith. Make your own judgement.

What sort of god would demand that?
That to me is very important. If you study the history of Islam and its prophet, specifically the visions that he received, you'll have your answer. And it's the difference between The God of the universe, and the god of this world.

Do you think it's possible that many everyday, peaceful Muslims don't understand the Koran? Is that really unreasonable, considering how many Christians don't understand the bible?

How many "Christians" get the gospel wrong? It's the main message of the bible.

Storyteller,

If you're really interested in the truth about Islam, you need to find the answers to a few basic questions.

Who is Muhammad?

How did he live his life?

What were his visions about?

Who were those visions from?

What does the Koran and Hadith actually promote?

Do a basic search on those things, and you'll be well on your way.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Storyteller »

RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:
Mallz wrote:
I just don`t see all Muslims as mad killers bent on destruction. I just feel we are judging them all based on extremists. Any religion can be interpreted wrongly and abused, doesn`t mean the religion is at fault, just the individuals.
I don't see all Muslims as mad killers/terrorists either. But I do see that with Islam. It is in their creeds to conquer and submit everyone/everything to allah (like how we would say the Father's prayer). And taken seriously produces terrorists. And the thing that I see people keep missing (because they don't do any research upon the matter), is that Islam is the problem. Not necessarily Muslims. Many Muslims are cultural Muslims that enjoy their cultural heritage and expressions. W/e. They aren't following Islam. Guess what? Most people aren't following what they prescribe to and identify with either.
As Christians (and even non Christians) are we not guilty of prejudice and ignorance if we just assume that anyone who follows Islam is a terrorist?
Yes. But that's not what is being put forward. I don't see B.W. saying this, either.
Then I apologize for misinterpreting things.

I know very little about Islam so I probably don`t really have a right to comment, it just seemed to be anti Islam and anti Muslim.
Are they really told to conquer with force? What sort of god would demand that?

Generally, here in the UK, we don`t get a lot of friction between Muslims and other religions. In fact, there have been many cases where Muslims are appalled at what is being done in the name of Islam.

So are you saying that if someone really wants to follow Islam then they should be following what the extremists preach? (And I mean that in the sense of being true to what the faith preaches rather than morally etc)
Storyteller,

Now you're starting to ask the right questions.

Are they told to conquer with force?
Read the Koran and Hadith. Make your own judgement.

What sort of god would demand that?
That to me is very important. If you study the history of Islam and its prophet, specifically the visions that he received, you'll have your answer. And it's the difference between The God of the universe, and the god of this world.

Do you think it's possible that many everyday, peaceful Muslims don't understand the Koran? Is that really unreasonable, considering how many Christians don't understand the bible?

How many "Christians" get the gospel wrong? It's the main message of the bible.

Storyteller,

If you're really interested in the truth about Islam, you need to find the answers to a few basic questions.

Who is Muhammad?

How did he live his life?

What were his visions about?

Who were those visions from?

What does the Koran and Hadith actually promote?

Do a basic search on those things, and you'll be well on your way.
Ooooooo goody! Homework! :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I will.

One of my faults I think is that I see the good in people first and foremost and I find it difficult to understand why anyone would have, could have so much hate in their heart.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by RickD »

Annette,

We all as Christians need to remember that Muslims are not our enemy. The god of Islam is the enemy.

When you get a chance to see this video with sound, please watch. It's the son of a Hamas leader who found out the truth about Islam, and converted to Christianity. It's obvious, despite the misunderstandings of those interviewing him, that he loves Muslims.
http://youtu.be/S2uW_aTeieI
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Mallz
Advanced Senior Member
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:34 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Mallz »

Generally, here in the UK, we don`t get a lot of friction between Muslims and other religions. In fact, there have been many cases where Muslims are appalled at what is being done in the name of Islam.
Really? Maybe not a lot (I would't personally know, obviously), but I do see disturbing news article on frequent enough of a basis (but you get that everywhere, right?). Would you consider the UK more secular than anything?
Are they really told to conquer with force? What sort of god would demand that?

A god of fortresses would demand that. Check this link out, wander around, and see what the Quran and Hadith say. Here's one to get you started, rape promoted by Islam and muhammad: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Rape_in_Islam
Mallz
Advanced Senior Member
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:34 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Mallz »

Oh, and what RickD said. And if you can, add on top of that studies of Islamic history, focusing on its creation and expansion into the Ottoman Empire. And, well, just learn about Islamic countries and find out what is 'normal' for them.
User avatar
Storyteller
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:54 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: UK

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Storyteller »

Rick.... will do, thanks :)
And you saying Muslims aren`t the enemy their god is makes sense.

Mallz... is the UK secular? Probably a lot more than the US. Religion doesn`t really play a big part in the UK. Sure, we have sections of Muslims and there are instances of violence etc but generally I think, Muslims here want to be here and live peacefully within their religion and culture without conflict.

Thanks for the link, I will check it out. (And the other stuff too)
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Philip
Site Owner
Posts: 9519
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Philip »

Lest one forget, Islam denies 1) That Christ was/is God, 2) That He was crucified, and 3) that He was not resurrected. Now, these are anti-Christ teachings that collectively deny exactly WHO Jesus is/what He did and accomplished - THE foundation of the Christian faith. Think, just maybe, these lies might come from "The Father of Lies?"
User avatar
B. W.
Ultimate Member
Posts: 8355
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:17 am
Christian: Yes
Location: Colorado

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by B. W. »

Mallz wrote:
I just don`t see all Muslims as mad killers bent on destruction. I just feel we are judging them all based on extremists. Any religion can be interpreted wrongly and abused, doesn`t mean the religion is at fault, just the individuals.
I don't see all Muslims as mad killers/terrorists either. But I do see that with Islam. It is in their creeds to conquer and submit everyone/everything to allah (like how we would say the Father's prayer). And taken seriously produces terrorists. And the thing that I see people keep missing (because they don't do any research upon the matter), is that Islam is the problem. Not necessarily Muslims. Many Muslims are cultural Muslims that enjoy their cultural heritage and expressions. W/e. They aren't following Islam. Guess what? Most people aren't following what they prescribe to and identify with either.
As Christians (and even non Christians) are we not guilty of prejudice and ignorance if we just assume that anyone who follows Islam is a terrorist?
Yes. But that's not what is being put forward. I don't see B.W. saying this, either.
There is one thing to consider, as with evil, there are two methods or tactics involved in conquering a people. One is the slow peaceful approach and the other the hard approach.

For example, the Marxist are split on their hard, we have the guns, so let's take over approach, and the neo-Marxist soft approach of let's take off the radical tee shirts slogans, wear a tie, and become part of the system in order to take it over- go slow and steady approach.

Islam's main objective is world domination and enforcement of Sharia law. How best to accomplish this? In this Islam is split between the hard core Jihadist approach and the soft slow but steady approach. The softies do not like the Jihadist methods and Jihadist hate the soft methods, however both share the same goals.

Historically, we also see two views of sharia law bouncing between the soft and hard approaches. For a period of time in an Islamic country, things appear okay for non-Muslims due to the softies. However, the hard core take over and things get worse and worse for non-Muslims. This is the historical ebb and flow of people conquered under Islam. The hard core always win out over the softies in the end. This is from the historical evidence just look at the Armenian Genocide as a point of reference on this.

So you have two basic groups in Islam seeing the same goal of world domination. You have the:

1-The Jihadist who are the, we have guns, fight and kill group, lets take over now group.

2-The soft approachers seek the slow but steady stages of Islamic conquest by infiltration-migration, building up a power structure in a host country to its change laws with expectation of coverting a host country fully to Islam - peacefully.

The soft approach is done before the open stages Jihad of forced submission upon a host nation population that hasn't converted, so that a totalitarian Islamic “THEOCRACY” is established worldwide. Either way, the two groups have same goals.

Let's beware of them that say, peace and safety! The soft approach Islamist insist they are peaceful and Islam is a religion of peace, love, and charity for all. However, is that fruit seen in Islamic countries? the answer is a resounding NO!!!

The Islamic idea of peace is to have opponents let their guard down so that peace will be upon only those who obey Islamic laws and pay the extortion Jizya tax, this will come back in vogue. Their idea of peace is not ours. Their religion condones lying in order to spread Islam.

As for love, well, do they kill homosexuals and treat women as 3 class property, sex slaves, the same as beast of burden like a donkey? Do they lop off limbs for petty crimes? Do they stone to death?

As for charity, they show none toward their own as the recent Migration crisis is unfolding where 72% of the refuges are young men of military age (per UN report). These men will be looking for women. So, let us look at these wonderfully peace loving poor Islamist in Sweden in this article who used the slow approach:

Sweden Opened Its Doors To Muslim Immigration, Today It’s The Rape Capital Of The West.

Islam does not in the least share the values of love or charity's compassion that we in the west do. If that were so, why aren't the Islamic countries taking in these folks? Maybe they don't have enough women?

The fruit of Islam is bad, period. It uses the same tactics that all evil inspired movements use, no different than Saul Alsinky radicals, the anarchist, or progressive liberalism uses in their respective slow or fast approach models to fundamentally transform the world to their utopia ideas. The biggest rule evil uses is to force your opponents to live up to heir own rules/standards. Islam is doing that with their peace and love talk. Satan does the same against God own Character and nature as well too. So it is not surprising to see it manifest in our world too.

Let's look at Islam, it does demand a continued killing of Christians and Jews. Ask any Muslim friends if they love the Jews so much that they would support a Jewish state that would last forever and ever. I recall asking one so call moderate Muslim this and the look on his face was pricelessly telling - NO, NO, NO!

Now Islam is decidedly anti-Christ. Islam seeks to change laws, season, times, and religions. This describes what the Antichrist and the false prophet will attempt to do. Islamist also impose a mark or sign on folks, the Kafir, (google Kafir) in order to buy and sell place the Arabic - N - Nuhn - symbol on the houses of Christian's in Iraq. They use this to impose the Jizya tax. They by force change season, times, and religions in the areas they conquer.

This matches precisely in living empirical technicolor for all the world to see that what they teach and practice matches the anti-Christ system to a tee as well fulfilling this caveat as well: Islam is indeed a new religion unlike any has seen before and it has a dome of the rock on the temple mount built off he ruins of the Roman Temple built on top of the Jewish temple in the late 600 AD. It is a religion that literally spreads abomination (sacrilege) and desolation worldwide.

I make this point because of naivety. In the bible it explicitly warns against embracing any anti-Christ system, not love such to understand it in order to be so nobly superior, but instead resist it, don't get the Mark, etc and etc.

So Ed, take some of these men into your home and any women - you really desire to be treated as a sex slaves and trash, then by all means let them into your homes, enjoy wearing a blanket covering your entire body during the hottest of summers.

Islam is a theo-political doctrine seeking Islamic Sharia Law worldwide. People should know that Islam seeks this goal as a political and religious duty. You cannot separate the religious Islam from the political Islam nor can you separate the political from religious. There are two schools of thought in achieving Its goals: The Jihadist now method and the slow infiltrate method.

Does God love the Muslims?

Most likely he loves only those that he foreknows will forsake Islam and become Christian, the rest, as Proverbs 6:16-19 states, he hates. God appears to be awakening those he foreknows in marvelous ways and they warn us of the dangers of Islam - yet many will not listen. Recall that there are two kind of people: The children of God/light and the children of darkness/the evil one. We who are now Christians were all at one time God's enemies too, but he saved us by the blood of Jesus awakening us to his grace. He will do so for any people. Let's not be naive about Islam's true intent.

Notes:

Article: Four Stages of Islamic Conquest
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
User avatar
edwardmurphy
Ultimate Member
Posts: 2302
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:45 am
Christian: No
Sex: Male
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by edwardmurphy »

Frankly, B.W., I don't much care what either the Bible or the Koran says about much of anything. What matters to me is people's actions.

For example, I'm sure that you can find me plenty of Biblical quotes about how Christianity is a religion of peace. To me that's irrelevant. What matters is what people calling themselves Christians have been up to for the last 2,000 years. And what they've been up to has frequently been attacking Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other.

Let's go all the way back to the beginning of Christian influence - Emperor Constantine. Prior to converting to Christianity Rome was an extremely aggressive, expansionist state. After the conversion from their warlike, pagan gods to peaceful Christianity Rome remained an extremely aggressive, expansionist state. Hmmm...

Eventually Rome fell, but their aggressive, expansionist mantle was taken over by the Christian Byzantines, who continued the original Roman policy of conducting wars of aggression against their neighbors whenever it suited their purposes.

Meanwhile, it was the Dark Ages over in Western Europe and Christians continued to butcher Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other, although without Rome to guide them they weren't nearly as efficient.

Then there were the Crusades. See above, but with more travel involved.

Eventually the Renaissance began and Christians continued to butcher Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other, but with a lot more cultural flair.

Meanwhile, some intrepid Christian explorers discovered that the New World, which they immediately conquered, enslaved, and plundered (while waving crosses around and going on about the glory of God).

Then Martin Luther stirred up some trouble, and for a while Christians in Europe were mostly focused on butchering each other, with little time left to bother with anyone else.

Meantime, Christian Europeans had figured out how to get to the Fabled East, so they went and conquered everything they could, thus kicking off 600 years of colonialism. World War I weakened colonialism a bit, and World War II put the nail in the coffin, although colonialism's death throes continued into the late 20th century.

Now it's 2015, and if you turn on the news you'll hear stories about trouble in the "developing world" (aka "the former colonies") and debates about who we, the peaceful Christian West, should bomb, how hard we should bomb them, and whether or not we should also invade.

So yeah, religion of peace.

Meantime, the history of Islam looks much the same, although they've been on the losing end for the last hundred years.

So yeah, another religion of peace.

Long story short, either both Christianity and Islam are religions of violence and war, or their peaceful messages are irrelevant in the real world.
abelcainsbrother
Ultimate Member
Posts: 5020
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Gap Theory

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by abelcainsbrother »

edwardmurphy wrote:Frankly, B.W., I don't much care what either the Bible or the Koran says about much of anything. What matters to me is people's actions.

For example, I'm sure that you can find me plenty of Biblical quotes about how Christianity is a religion of peace. To me that's irrelevant. What matters is what people calling themselves Christians have been up to for the last 2,000 years. And what they've been up to has frequently been attacking Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other.

Let's go all the way back to the beginning of Christian influence - Emperor Constantine. Prior to converting to Christianity Rome was an extremely aggressive, expansionist state. After the conversion from their warlike, pagan gods to peaceful Christianity Rome remained an extremely aggressive, expansionist state. Hmmm...

Eventually Rome fell, but their aggressive, expansionist mantle was taken over by the Christian Byzantines, who continued the original Roman policy of conducting wars of aggression against their neighbors whenever it suited their purposes.

Meanwhile, it was the Dark Ages over in Western Europe and Christians continued to butcher Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other, although without Rome to guide them they weren't nearly as efficient.

Then there were the Crusades. See above, but with more travel involved.

Eventually the Renaissance began and Christians continued to butcher Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other, but with a lot more cultural flair.

Meanwhile, some intrepid Christian explorers discovered that the New World, which they immediately conquered, enslaved, and plundered (while waving crosses around and going on about the glory of God).

Then Martin Luther stirred up some trouble, and for a while Christians in Europe were mostly focused on butchering each other, with little time left to bother with anyone else.

Meantime, Christian Europeans had figured out how to get to the Fabled East, so they went and conquered everything they could, thus kicking off 600 years of colonialism. World War I weakened colonialism a bit, and World War II put the nail in the coffin, although colonialism's death throes continued into the late 20th century.

Now it's 2015, and if you turn on the news you'll hear stories about trouble in the "developing world" (aka "the former colonies") and debates about who we, the peaceful Christian West, should bomb, how hard we should bomb them, and whether or not we should also invade.

So yeah, religion of peace.

Meantime, the history of Islam looks much the same, although they've been on the losing end for the last hundred years.

So yeah, another religion of peace.

Long story short, either both Christianity and Islam are religions of violence and war, or their peaceful messages are irrelevant in the real world.
It seems that atheists use selective history to bash Christianity however they totally skip over how Atheist countries and societies led by people like Mao,Pol Pot,Stalin,etc slaughtered and killed far,far more people than all of them Christian atrocities you bring up,and they oppressed far,far more people than any Christian society has. You cannot make the atrocities done in the name of Christianity stick to Christianity though because they go against the teachings of Jesus Christ and just because people ignored Jesus's teachings and sinned does no harm to Christianity at all. The only way it could is if they were following the teachings of Jesus and they were'nt.

So if you want to bash Societies? You need to start with socities led and controlled by Atheists and not Christian societies,getting rid of Christianity and all religion would be a much,much worse society to live in based on history. A Christian society is far,far better than what Atheism offers. We've already seen what non-religious societies are like led by atheists and far,far more people are killed and oppressed in them. So it is Atheism that needs to be done away with.

Atheists on the other hand have been blessed living in Christian based societies where they can freely reject Jesus or any God and even use their freedom to bash Jesus and nothing will happen to them,they will never be forced against their will to believe in Jesus because it goes against everything Jesus and the bible teaches about faith. If a person is to be saved by Jesus and chooses to be a Christian? it requires that persons faith,not any body elses faith,it must come from your heart alone,you could not even become a Christian by being forced to be one and this is why we have freedom in the west.

Sure Christians will preach,they will witness,they will spread the gospel but they will never force anybody to believe in Jesus against their will.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
User avatar
B. W.
Ultimate Member
Posts: 8355
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:17 am
Christian: Yes
Location: Colorado

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by B. W. »

abelcainsbrother wrote:
edwardmurphy wrote:Frankly, B.W., I don't much care what either the Bible or the Koran says about much of anything. What matters to me is people's actions.

For example, I'm sure that you can find me plenty of Biblical quotes about how Christianity is a religion of peace. To me that's irrelevant. What matters is what people calling themselves Christians have been up to for the last 2,000 years. And what they've been up to has frequently been attacking Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other.

Let's go all the way back to the beginning of Christian influence - Emperor Constantine. Prior to converting to Christianity Rome was an extremely aggressive, expansionist state. After the conversion from their warlike, pagan gods to peaceful Christianity Rome remained an extremely aggressive, expansionist state. Hmmm...

Eventually Rome fell, but their aggressive, expansionist mantle was taken over by the Christian Byzantines, who continued the original Roman policy of conducting wars of aggression against their neighbors whenever it suited their purposes.

Meanwhile, it was the Dark Ages over in Western Europe and Christians continued to butcher Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other, although without Rome to guide them they weren't nearly as efficient.

Then there were the Crusades. See above, but with more travel involved.

Eventually the Renaissance began and Christians continued to butcher Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other, but with a lot more cultural flair.

Meanwhile, some intrepid Christian explorers discovered that the New World, which they immediately conquered, enslaved, and plundered (while waving crosses around and going on about the glory of God).

Then Martin Luther stirred up some trouble, and for a while Christians in Europe were mostly focused on butchering each other, with little time left to bother with anyone else.

Meantime, Christian Europeans had figured out how to get to the Fabled East, so they went and conquered everything they could, thus kicking off 600 years of colonialism. World War I weakened colonialism a bit, and World War II put the nail in the coffin, although colonialism's death throes continued into the late 20th century.

Now it's 2015, and if you turn on the news you'll hear stories about trouble in the "developing world" (aka "the former colonies") and debates about who we, the peaceful Christian West, should bomb, how hard we should bomb them, and whether or not we should also invade.

So yeah, religion of peace.

Meantime, the history of Islam looks much the same, although they've been on the losing end for the last hundred years.

So yeah, another religion of peace.

Long story short, either both Christianity and Islam are religions of violence and war, or their peaceful messages are irrelevant in the real world.
It seems that atheists use selective history to bash Christianity however they totally skip over how Atheist countries and societies led by people like Mao,Pol Pot,Stalin,etc slaughtered and killed far,far more people than all of them Christian atrocities you bring up,and they oppressed far,far more people than any Christian society has. You cannot make the atrocities done in the name of Christianity stick to Christianity though because they go against the teachings of Jesus Christ and just because people ignored Jesus's teachings and sinned does no harm to Christianity at all. The only way it could is if they were following the teachings of Jesus and they weren't.

So if you want to bash Societies? You need to start with societies led and controlled by Atheists and not Christian societies,getting rid of Christianity and all religion would be a much,much worse society to live in based on history. A Christian society is far,far better than what Atheism offers. We've already seen what non-religious societies are like led by atheists and far,far more people are killed and oppressed in them. So it is Atheism that needs to be done away with.

Atheists on the other hand have been blessed living in Christian based societies where they can freely reject Jesus or any God and even use their freedom to bash Jesus and nothing will happen to them,they will never be forced against their will to believe in Jesus because it goes against everything Jesus and the bible teaches about faith. If a person is to be saved by Jesus and chooses to be a Christian? it requires that persons faith,not any body elses faith,it must come from your heart alone,you could not even become a Christian by being forced to be one and this is why we have freedom in the west.

Sure Christians will preach,they will witness,they will spread the gospel but they will never force anybody to believe in Jesus against their will.

Ditto to abelcainsbrother answer!

We will keep praying for Ed to be released from his sins and to stop retaining such hate! In Jesus' Name - Amen
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
User avatar
Silvertusk
Board Moderator
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:38 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: United Kingdom

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Silvertusk »

edwardmurphy wrote:Frankly, B.W., I don't much care what either the Bible or the Koran says about much of anything. What matters to me is people's actions.

For example, I'm sure that you can find me plenty of Biblical quotes about how Christianity is a religion of peace. To me that's irrelevant. What matters is what people calling themselves Christians have been up to for the last 2,000 years. And what they've been up to has frequently been attacking Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other.

Let's go all the way back to the beginning of Christian influence - Emperor Constantine. Prior to converting to Christianity Rome was an extremely aggressive, expansionist state. After the conversion from their warlike, pagan gods to peaceful Christianity Rome remained an extremely aggressive, expansionist state. Hmmm...

Eventually Rome fell, but their aggressive, expansionist mantle was taken over by the Christian Byzantines, who continued the original Roman policy of conducting wars of aggression against their neighbors whenever it suited their purposes.

Meanwhile, it was the Dark Ages over in Western Europe and Christians continued to butcher Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other, although without Rome to guide them they weren't nearly as efficient.

Then there were the Crusades. See above, but with more travel involved.

Eventually the Renaissance began and Christians continued to butcher Pagans, Jews, Muslims, and each other, but with a lot more cultural flair.

Meanwhile, some intrepid Christian explorers discovered that the New World, which they immediately conquered, enslaved, and plundered (while waving crosses around and going on about the glory of God).

Then Martin Luther stirred up some trouble, and for a while Christians in Europe were mostly focused on butchering each other, with little time left to bother with anyone else.

Meantime, Christian Europeans had figured out how to get to the Fabled East, so they went and conquered everything they could, thus kicking off 600 years of colonialism. World War I weakened colonialism a bit, and World War II put the nail in the coffin, although colonialism's death throes continued into the late 20th century.

Now it's 2015, and if you turn on the news you'll hear stories about trouble in the "developing world" (aka "the former colonies") and debates about who we, the peaceful Christian West, should bomb, how hard we should bomb them, and whether or not we should also invade.

So yeah, religion of peace.

Meantime, the history of Islam looks much the same, although they've been on the losing end for the last hundred years.

So yeah, another religion of peace.

Long story short, either both Christianity and Islam are religions of violence and war, or their peaceful messages are irrelevant in the real world.
This might come as somewhat of a shock to some people but I actually agree with most of what Ed just said. However with one important amendment - Christians do and have done all what Ed has just said. But the real matter is - Christianity doesn't teach us to do those things you mentioned. And I would go one step further to suggest that these people are not in fact Christians at all because they clearly do not follow the teachings of Christ.

Which I think is pretty much what ACB said as well - so Ditto again.
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by RickD »

ed wrote:
Long story short, either both Christianity and Islam are religions of violence and war, or their peaceful messages are irrelevant in the real world.
That just fails, logically.

Islam and Christianity aren't connected at the hip.

Both religions could be religions of violence and war.

Both religions could be religions of peace.

But one could be a religion of peace, and one violent.

Ed,

Since your knowledge of Christianity(who Christ is and what he taught) is lacking, it's probably safe to assume your knowledge of islam(who its prophet is, and what he taught) is lacking also.

To judge Christianity correctly, one should judge it on the person of Jesus Christ.

The same goes for Islam.

People are sinful. Including Christians and Muslims.

I've heard more than a few atheists say they couldn't believe in Christ, because of Christians(or those claiming to be Christians).

If someone stole my coat, hat, and car, and went around robbing banks disguised as me, would you blame me? Then don't blame Christ.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
User avatar
melanie
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1417
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 3:18 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by melanie »

I think it is vital to be informed but the the interesting thing is information is subjective.
The more "informed" a person may be doesn't equate to correct understanding across the board.

I'm a Christian who believes wholeheartedly.
So is Islam deceived, yep.
Like all other forms of religion.
Are there some nut jobs within Islam, obviously and dangerously so.
Has the religion breed them?? In modern culture? Or is there something else at hand?
The truth is there are millions of Muslims that interpret their beliefs as being spiritually beneficial and use such to promote peace.
As a Christian can I evaluate the ins and outs of their text without stumbling across some major pitfalls. No.
But as Christians we are faced everyday with people misinterpreting and misundstanding the bible constantly. We get frustrated and think noooo, you don't get it. You don understand the text, the audience, the time it was written ect ect. But yet we do not give the same allowances to others.

We think that if they are not violent jihadist then they are not 'true' Muslims and they don't really understand the nuances of their text. That's interesting considering that majority and by that I mean millions of people are peaceful Muslims that reject every notion of violence.
Then it's assumed that they are lying or deliberately deceiving.

And the game continues.
Public opinion and propaganda on both sides to manipulate.
The west has for a very long time had an extremely invested interest in the Middle East.
And it ain't got nothing to do with religion.
It's money.
Bottom line.
The most oil rich countries are in the Middle East.
Squillions and billions of dollars worth.
We and by we I mean the West have in bed with Saudia Arabia for years.
When you think of oppressive regimes that subject their woman to subhuman Islamic ideals Saudi is it. Education, media, is suppressed. The visions of woman having to wear Burkas by Sharia Law is what is going down in Saudi Arabia. They can not drive, they have to have a male escort at all times, they just got the right to vote but it's a political joke, only 12 % of the entire female population work. Woman in Syria, Iraq ect have so many more opportunities.

This regime is disgusting in human rights. But their Saudi Princes do business in oil with the west.
You wanna see Islamic rule at its ugliest its there but we never hear of it because they are playing the game and that game is money.
When the west want to secure monopoly on oil, then the propaganda war machine comes into play.
It's not about Islam, or religion it's money and greed. We are being played for fools to make it seem like it's about repressive religious beliefs buts it's not.
Money talks and bulls**t walks.
It's the way of the world.
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 22063
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen

Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by RickD »

Squillions?

Is that a blonde word for "anything higher than millions"?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Post Reply