The Band that played during the recent attack in France

[edwardmurphy]

We will keep praying for Ed to be released from his sins and to stop retaining such hate! In Jesus' Name - Amen

We? I haven't noticed anyone else offering me prayers in an insincere, passive-aggressive, insulting way.

[Philip]

Make NO mistake about it, the Quran endorses violence against those who do not submit to Allah. And from its BEGINNING, Islam has been violent, in fact, was spread by the sword. STUDY Muhammad's history! THE reason the Islamists are spreading death and mayhem across the world is because of how they interpret the Quran - a pretty direct understanding, I would say. And if you watch what entities and what so much of the Islamic world supports, don't be surprised. And the REST of the so-called PEACEFUL Muslim world isn't standing up, as they STILL are allowing hideous stuff to be taught in their mosques. MAYBE not so much in the West, but certainly in the Middle East.

That radical or even semi-radical views are common across Islam, this tells me this is a belief that is, at the very least, very likely to be poisonous to peace. It's also a religion inspired and inflamed by Satan. THINK about the regions of Islam that are on fire - regions which USED to be relatively quiet. Just try to name a Muslim society that is peaceful without a powerful dictator or king wielding an iron hand - that should give you a hint. Look at where the strongmen been removed (HUGE mistake!) - unimaginable violence has erupted. Yes, the violence is political as much as religiously inspired, but the wording of the Quran, SPECIFIC to how to treat unbelievers, easily bridges that gap, fans the flames.

I have a friend who is going to be a missionary in island area that is entirely Islamic. He tells me that even finding a Bible on a person could be VERY dangerous. He will not be able to openly discuss Christianity. Remember, this is in a so-called PEACEFUL Muslim society. Look at Indonesia - now the radicalism is there as well. I mean, how much peace is there from a religion when a first-time shoplifting offense demands the cutting off of a hand? Based upon what? Sharia Law - which is based upon what? Yep! I doubt most peaceful Muslims are terribly knowledgeable about the Quran.

Perhaps defend a peaceful Muslim you KNOW - millions of which I'm sure exist. Yes, LOVE them, pray for them, be kind to them, evangelize them. But never, EVER defend Islam, its roots, or what and WHO is behind it! This tells me that ANYONE who takes the Quran seriously should be viewed with caution, because the potential for dangerous interpretive beliefs lie within. And so, how do we KNOW who is who, or which is which? And what you will find is, the more SECULAR a Muslim is - that is, a largely cultural Muslim, the less likelihood it is that they well have radical beliefs.

[Byblos]

And what you will find is, the more SECULAR a Muslim is - that is, a largely cultural Muslim, the less likelihood it is that they well have radical beliefs.

And the less likely they are to be well versed in the tenets of their religion.

[Philip]

NO doubt, Byblos!

Just to be sure, I am NOT anti-MUSLIM - a Muslim is a deceived person of a certain tradition - they need Jesus, just like all unbelievers do - no more, no less. But the Quran, Islam, Muhammad - these are ALL anti-God/anti-Christian! And the more a person takes those things seriously, the more potentially dangerous they are - to themselves as well as others.

Let's just make sure that, in our zeal to love and have compassion for MUSLIMS, that we don't in any way accept or promote the false belief that Islam, the Quran, Muhammad are in ANY way agents of peace or love - these are all anti-Christ and very dangerous. And that's what we're seeing more and more of.

[edwardmurphy]

Make NO mistake about it, the Quran endorses violence against those who do not submit to Allah. And from its BEGINNING, Islam has been violent, in fact, was spread by the sword. STUDY Muhammad's history! THE reason the Islamists are spreading death and mayhem across the world is because of how they interpret the Quran - a pretty direct understanding, I would say. And if you watch what entities and what so much of the Islamic world supports, don't be surprised. And the REST of the so-called PEACEFUL Muslim world isn't standing up, as they STILL are allowing hideous stuff to be taught in their mosques. MAYBE not so much in the West, but certainly in the Middle East.

My earlier point is that you guys are putting way too much emphasis on a couple of old books. Yes, YOU (plural) take the Bible very seriously and try to live by your various interpretations of scripture. But Christians have been conquering, pillaging, and plundering in the name of God for most of the last 2,000 years. I judge people by their actions, and trying to argue that Christians are any more peaceful than Muslims is ridiculous.

As far as the rest of the Muslim world standing up to the radicals, why should they do more than they're already doing?

First of all, they do speak in opposition to radicals, but it doesn't seem to get noticed by the people demanding it. It's as if pundits and politicians are cynical opportunists and "Why don't the moderates say anything?!?!" is just a rhetorical talking point...

Second, for those that don't, why should they? The radicals are incredibly dangerous people. It's easy to sit safe and sound in the US or Western Europe and talk tough about violent radicals, but the folks who live around them have a lot more skin in the game. Maybe all of the tough-talking Westerners should join the fight and put their money where their mouths are. Until they do, they should probably can the bravado.

Third, the plain fact is the radicals have a point. Their major issue with the West isn't that we're mostly wealthy or mostly Christian, it's that we have troops stationed over there, carrier battle groups off their coasts, drones in their airspace, and sweetheart trade deals with their corrupt governments. It's baffling to me that the same people who rant on and on about how Obama is taking all their freedom and it's high time to water the Tree of Liberty expect Middle Easterners to respectfully submit to Western imperialism. Talk about double standards...

I anticipate that I'm about to get blasted for supporting terrorism, hating Christians, failing to understand Islam, and a bunch of other silliness, but those weren't the points I was trying to make. My point is that the issues are complex and many-sided, there are no clear good guys and bad guys, there is no moral high ground, and everyone involved has blood on their hands. Unless somebody steps up and accepts responsibility for their part of this mess the cycle will go on forever.

[Philip]

Edward: My point is that the issues are complex and many-sided, there are no clear good guys and bad guys, there is no moral high ground, and everyone involved has blood on their hands.

OK, Eddie, let's keep it simple, when people have a beef and they're willing to butcher kids only wanting to have a nice time on a Saturday night - people they don't even know who they are or where they're from, it is beyond delusional to make a statement that there are no clear bad guys. And, to be clear, these maniacs are willing to kill as many Muslims as they are anyone else - just depends WHICH Muslims and where. A drone takes out known terrorist camps - you think that is BAD???!!! Do you know what would happen if the Middle East was overrun by such people: 1) the world's oil supply is interrupted, basically bringing civilization to a standstill, would record the WORLD'S economies - you think things are bad now???!!!; 2) the petro billions would then flow into the hands of Butchers Inc. So, to stop them - to stop ANY of them is, YES, a moral act. I know many only want to see shades of gray, they want to refer to sins of nations' pasts, but what the IslamistS are doing has NO moral integrity or even a sense of humanity. These are Satan's spawn - how's THAT for bad guys.

Ed: Third, the plain fact is the radicals have a point. Their major issue with the West isn't that we're mostly wealthy or mostly Christian, it's that we have troops stationed over there, carrier battle groups off their coasts, drones in their airspace, and sweetheart trade deals with their corrupt governments.

And so their RESPONSE is reasonable? Humane? Their point is to not stop until we are all dead or under their thumbs crying praises to Allah! THAT, my friend, IS their freaking POINT!!!

OK, so what is Western Imperialism doing NOW to hurt the Middle East. The oil kingdoms have brought unparalleled wealth and prosperity to their countries by dealing with the West.

It's really hard to take someone seriously who says things so incredibly naive and stupid! ANYONE who would assert that the response of radicals to Westerners on their soil, of unbelievers in their midst, to be reasonable or in ANY way justifiable - well, there really are no words.

So, Ed, what do you think we should do - let the radicals have their way, ruin the planet, kill indiscriminately millions upon millions of people? Starve the rest? Wipe Israel and the West off the map? That's what they want. Know what ISIS members call other terrorist groups? AMATEURS!!!

[B. W.]

At least one liberal atheist gets it: Guest Asks Bill Maher if Muslim ‘Ideas Are Bad.’ He Delivers Comeback That Draws Loud Applause Link to article

And yes Eddy people are praying for you on this forum, why would that bother you?
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[Nessa]

At least one liberal atheist gets it: Guest Asks Bill Maher if Muslim ‘Ideas Are Bad.’ He Delivers Comeback That Draws Loud Applause Link to article

And yes Eddy people are praying for you on this forum, why would that bother you?
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I know this is not directed at me but..

It is obvious what bugs him! He isnt offended that people pray for him..he said that, but its the way its done

He was offended and you kept praying publically. I dont believe its fair to expect atheists to have respect for our rules then turn around and be disrespected themselves.

This isnt a board for publically praying for atheists especially if they dont want it. You shouldnt publically force prayers on people on a public board in my opinion.

If I was him I would feel desrespected too.

And although I understand what your saying and dont necessarily find anything wrong with the prayer itself, I can understand why an atheist would feel insulted at the wording.

[edwardmurphy]

And yes Eddy people are praying for you on this forum, why would that bother you?

I still can't decide if you're incredibly obtuse or just dishonest and passive aggressive. Anyway, allow me to clarify, just in case you're really that obtuse.

If they're just quietly praying for me that doesn't bother me at all. They're actually showing their sincerity by choosing not to use their prayers as an opportunity to insult and belittle me. You, by comparison, are showing your insincerity by using your prayers as an opportunity to attack me.

This actually dovetails nicely with a conversation I had with a Christian friend a while back. She does a lot of outreach at local colleges. She was complaining about how frustrating it was to have to start every conversation by explaining that her religion shouldn't be judged by the idiocy being spewed by the religious right. It bothers her because she sees the declining influence of Christianity as a problem, and she also sees clearly how pundits on FOX News, cynical politicians, and angry, paranoid, old guys (like you) make a mockery of the idea that Christianity is about peace, love, and acceptance. Long story short, you do more to turn people off of Christianity just by being yourself than groups like the FFRF ever could. How ironic, no?

[Storyteller]

I weep for humanity. I really do.

Ed brings up a good point. I've met a lot of so called Christians that are so blind, so condescending, so wrong.

Christianity is about love, respect, humility, tolerance. Its not an excuse to condemn.

And ed?
(I pray for ken and MBPrata too )

[B. W.]

Ed I am praying for you and it is neither condensing or political it is out of real love for you!

As Christians we are called to walk as Jesus did: Praying the John 20:23, way...

Again, you do not understand Christianity or Christians. In fact, despite how you re-enter this forum by stealth without asking shows that we have been good to you. Suggest you look in the mirror when you seek to condemn Christians and maybe you might see yourself, how you betray you own noble ideas of tolerance.

You can say what you will against me - why you do this is plain to see - it because I banned you last time.

Maybe it is yourself who has a political agenda here but that doesn't bother me at all because I will continue to pray the John 20:23 and 1 John 5:16 way for you and others here will do the same.

Again why does that really bother you, people with sincerity and concerning love for you actually pray the John 20:23 and 1 John 5:16 way for you - why would this bother you?
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[edwardmurphy]

So, Ed, what do you think we should do - let the radicals have their way, ruin the planet, kill indiscriminately millions upon millions of people? Starve the rest? Wipe Israel and the West off the map? That's what they want.

Nope, that's an option. But bombing terrorism out of existence isn't an option either. We've dumped thousands of lives, tens of thousands of bombs, millions of bullets, and billions of dollars into trying and all we've done is made things worse. So what to do? I don't really know, Phil, but I'm pretty sure that it's not more of the same.

The only thing that I'm completely certain of is that ISIS wants us do exactly what we've been doing. ISIS wants us to expand the conflict. They want us to alienate and radicalize Western Muslims with stupid anti-Sharia laws, head scarf bans, and burning Korans. They want us to keep bombing the Middle East, because that pisses people off and pushes young men into their arms. They'd love to see more boots on the ground, because that pisses people off even more and brings even more young men to the ISIS recruiters. They want chaos and instability in the region, and hatred between Christians and Muslims because that's the kind of atmosphere where they thrive. They want to draw us in and chew us up until things get so bad that we finally give up and go home, leaving the region in turmoil and ripe for conquest by ultra-violent, extremist killers. And frankly, if we put a few hundred thousand guys into Syria that's what will probably happen.

So what do you think we should do, Phil?

[Storyteller]

What can we do? I have no clue but kinda agree with ed, what we are doing isnt working.
Anonymous, the online hacking group are attacking them in cyberspace by bringing down some of their sites, twitter accounts etc.

Bombing etc isnt working, we need to try different tatics but what?
Wish I knew.

My heart bleeds.
This world and the evil in it fills me with despair.

[edwardmurphy]

Again why does that really bother you, people with sincerity and concerning love for you actually pray the John 20:23 and 1 John 5:16 way for you - why would this bother you?

You've (singular) deliberately misinterpreted what I've said about you (singular) and your (singular) insulting prayer announcements 3-4 times now. You (singular) know why you (singular) irritate me. If you're (singular) having trouble hearing it from me go ahead and read Nessa's posts. She's explained it to you (singular) twice now.

[Nessa]

Ed I am praying for you and it is neither condensing or political it is out of real love for you!

As Christians we are called to walk as Jesus did: Praying the John 20:23, way...

Again, you do not understand Christianity or Christians. In fact, despite how you re-enter this forum by stealth without asking shows that we have been good to you. Suggest you look in the mirror when you seek to condemn Christians and maybe you might see yourself, how you betray you own noble ideas of tolerance.

You can say what you will against me - why you do this is plain to see - it because I banned you last time.

Maybe it is yourself who has a political agenda here but that doesn't bother me at all because I will continue to pray the John 20:23 and 1 John 5:16 way for you and others here will do the same.

Again why does that really bother you, people with sincerity and concerning love for you actually pray the John 20:23 and 1 John 5:16 way for you - why would this bother you?
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You know, if I was an atheist I would be far more impressed if someone just got to know me
and showed they cared by taking a sincere interest. Otherwise I'd feel like just another name on someone's prayer list. I'd say much more love can be shown by keeping the prayers private and the interest for the person public.