Agape love: What is it?

[Nessa]

Do you think God feels love for his enemies?
Or do you think God feels love at all?

[RickD]

Do you think God feels love for his enemies?
Or do you think God feels love at all?

Not in the same way that we feel love.

God is love. And God is immutable. For God to have feelings of love that He turns off and on, or feelings that come and go, would mean that God changes.

And His immutability rules that out.

[Nessa]

Do you think God feels love for his enemies?
Or do you think God feels love at all?

Not in the same way that we feel love.

God is love. And God is immutable. For God to have feelings of love that He turns off and on, or feelings that come and go, would mean that God changes.

And His immutability rules that out.

Are you saying God does not feel love for me?

[RickD]

Do you think God feels love for his enemies?
Or do you think God feels love at all?

Not in the same way that we feel love.

God is love. And God is immutable. For God to have feelings of love that He turns off and on, or feelings that come and go, would mean that God changes.

And His immutability rules that out.

Are you saying God does not feel love for me?

Define "feel".

God does not have emotions like we do.

[Nessa]

Feel as in his heart breaks or he feels passionate love when he thinks of us

[Nessa]

So God loves conditionally and doesnt even feel love for me? For us? Well, this just keeps getting better

[RickD]

Nessa,

God's love is infinitely better than a feeling kind of love. GOD LITERALLY IS LOVE!!

I think you are attributing strictly human emotions, to God.

Our "feelings" of love, our emotional feelings, pale in comparison to God's love.

If you haven't already, you need to read Jac's book Making Divine Simplicity Simple.

God's love for us is constant. It's not a waning type of love, based on feelings and emotion. Since God is immutable(He doesn't change), and He is love, then His love doesn't change.

And, His love is infinitely more than our finite minds can even imagine.

[B. W.]

Nessa,

God's love is infinitely better than a feeling kind of love. GOD LITERALLY IS LOVE!!

I think you are attributing strictly human emotions, to God.

Our "feelings" of love, our emotional feelings, pale in comparison to God's love.

If you haven't already, you need to read Jac's book Making Divine Simplicity Simple.

God's love for us is constant. It's not a waning type of love, based on feelings and emotion. Since God is immutable(He doesn't change), and He is love, then His love doesn't change.

And, His love is infinitely more than our finite minds can even imagine.

If I didn't have a bad cold, cough, cough, hack and cough sniff I may could have answered better as Rick made the point in a few words what took me pages!

Point is - let us not attribute strictly human emotions, to God.

The modern hyper grace movement as well as the Emergent church movement has infected the teaching on the love of God by attributing strictly human emotions of love unto God. I have seen this infection spread into mainstream teachings as well. This is something that can stray into heresy.

It takes so work, but when you use the Septuagint and see what Hebrew words for love that was translated into Agape/Agapeo, etc, you will discover several Hebrew words were used.

Our western line of resoning love is thought of as an emotion of how one feels toward another. The Hebrew words for love contain a deeper meanings such as, the action of cherishing, nurturing,providing, protecting, intimacy, involvement, edifying, rebuking/chastising to restore one back, and also refers to all the attributes of God's character and nature in action as well too.

In modern times, we have defined a limit to the meaning of agape, which is thus read into the text, what is not there. The KJV translated 1 Co 13:1-12 as Charity from the Latin version. This helps understand the action of christening, nurturing, disciplining as agape. Charity once meant to take care of, nurture, discipline to give these in caring actions but later it only meant giving things like donations.

Again, God's love is far different than what we think or feel and we honestly cannot base it alone on our feelings.

Illustration:

Good parents love their little children as well get irritated with them and want quiet time away from them but they are there no matter what, and when the little tike sneezes on them and makes them sick, they still care for them. protect them, each them, guide them, help them, and provide loving discipline too. In a form, but not totally, agape is similar to sort of relationship.
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[Nessa]

I never said JUST emotion but there IS emotion. Deep emotion. We are made in God's image. God has emotions. Otherwise I'll watch the sam harris and the immoral God video again and sink into a deep depression thinking God is watching all this bad stuff going on and he doesnt give a [poop] cause hes just so above 'feeling'.

[Nessa]

Lets not spiritualize God in a way that makes him an unrelatable deity and start singing bette midlers 'from a distance'. Jesus is God and Jesus did have emotion. So to say God is some how above 'feeling' is insulting. Whatever we feel, Im sure God feels infinitly more. I grew up with a father who was either angry or indifferent. Pretty much what harris accuses the christian God of being if he exists.

God's emotions are holy. His feelings are holy. Ours obviously are entwined with sin.

Before the fall adam and eve would have felt perfectly. So why would God make us with feelings if thats something that is not of himself.

A God who doesnt 'feel' is not a God whom I wish to serve. Might as well well worship a carved idol who cant see, feel, or hear.

[RickD]

Anthropomorphism

[Nessa]

Anthropomorphism

God can still see even if he doesnt have a set of baby blues...hagar said 'he is the God that sees me'

Jesus is God. So Jesus feels love like us...weeps like us..gets angry like us....gets tempted like us...feels compassion like us....yet God is above human emotion? What kind of God is this who doesnt feel love? Passion is not a feeling?

Tell me how you passionately love another without feeling?

[Nessa]

You know, if I dont want someone to give me a gift just cos they feel 'obligated' to give it, I sure as heck dont want someone loving me like that either, if their heart is not in it.

Love isnt a feeling but its not devoid of feeling either

[Mallz]

Nessa:

But wheres the good news in God only loving those who love him?

The good news is that we have a savior; One who can reconcile us back to God. Not that God loves everyone eternally (universalism is false). He expresses His love to everyone and it will continue to be expressed and available until Jesus reveals who are His and who are not. Those who reject Him (even part) reject all of Him, including His love, and will no longer have it in relation to their creator.

Now just because God loves unconditionally, does not mean we will necessarily love him back.
Those that truly love him will do as he says. Those who dont love him will ultimately perish.

Do you see it loving for people to be sent to hell? Exist there?

You are saying non christians are your 'brother' and sister' along with christians, right?

Mark 3:35 "Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

Do you think God feels love for his enemies?
Or do you think God feels love at all?

Isaiah 55:8-9
We are not God. He is not a creature. We have things. He is things. He doesn't have feelings (He isn't even physical; if He was, physical would be divine). We relate to Him. And what we get from Him depends on where we put ourselves in relation to Him. We can put ourselves under His love or His wrath. He is constant, we are changing.


RickD:

God doesn't love anyone who doesn't love Him?
That absolutely flies in the face of 1 John 4:19

So how do you justify people going to hell? Or the scriptures saying He hates? Or those under His wrath?
God hates: Romans 9:13, Proverbs 6:16-19, etc.
God is Love. What happens when you are rejected by love?

Jesus came for His sheep. John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. John 10:14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Who does God love? His sheep. The 'us' in 1 John 4:19 is talking about His sheep, believers.

And John 3:16 needs to stop being taken out of context. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." <--God states a condition for His love.

Who gets eternal life? John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

What does it take to be a sheep? To believe in Him/follow Him. God loved His creation to send (love in action) the Shepard to gather the sheep together who would come to Him.

Guess who is left? Who doesn't receive nor gets His love? The goats (those who are not His sheep).
Matthew 25:31-46

[Mallz]

Nessa:

Jesus is God. So Jesus feels love like us...weeps like us..gets angry like us....gets tempted like us...feels compassion like us....yet God is above human emotion? What kind of God is this who doesnt feel love? Passion is not a feeling?

Jesus has emotions and feels because He is man as He is God. God is what human emotion comes from. His state of existence is more real than ours. His love is more real than our love. We get feelings to know what we are feeling because we are creatures of relation to our God/Reality. He is Reality; He is love. We can't understand that, but we can relate to it. He wants everyone to be in His love; but it's our choice. And what we feel will be dependent on how we decide to relate to Him. But we don't get to decide what that means. Its on His terms, as that is just reality. So, don't worry that He doesn't 'feel' in the feeling sense you're thinking of (although Jesus does). Because His love for you is more real and alive than your feelings of love are for Him.