Agape love: What is it?

[Nessa]

Mallz,

I must have misunderstood your previous post from awhile back.

Thought you were saying God is the judge so essentially everyone is a brother or sister to you because you dont know who the real christians are.

I dont see it as a matter of God being loving or unloving for some people going to hell.
Its the only place for us to go if we choose to not love God.

John 3:16 has two parts
He loves everyone
AND those that choose to love him back will have ever lasting life

God has no feelings? Well why do we? Why did adam and eve BEFORE the fall when there was no sin? Will there be no feelings in heaven?

[Mallz]

Thought you were saying God is the judge so essentially everyone is a brother or sister to you because you dont know who the real christians are.

Yes and no. I know who is or isn't by how someone chooses to dwell. People can come and go as brothers/sisters. It depends on their relation to Him and me. Regardless, I'll treat everyone as brother/sister. But how I am to them in that role is directly related to who/how they are. I choose to believe in everyone, as I know He wants everyone to come to Him, so I aspire to be that love, too.

I dont see it as a matter of God being loving or unloving for some people going to hell.
Its the only place for us to go if we choose to not love God.

Do you seriously think anyone in hell thinks they are loved by God? Really?

John 3:16 has two parts
He loves everyone
AND those that choose to love him back will have ever lasting life

Why do you think He loves everyone? What do you think about how He hates?

God has no feelings? Well why do we? Why did adam and eve BEFORE the fall when there was no sin? Will there be no feelings in heaven?

God isn't a being, or physical. We have feelings because we have a physical body that can relate to and be driven by emotion. And what do you mean about adam and eve before the fall? I'm not following you.
Um... We are going to have physical bodies... The kingdom comes to Earth. What do you think happens after we die? And after the resurrections?
And if it helps, try thinking about it this way: God has 'feelings' (to our perspective) that we will never be able to feel. He 'thinks' "Nessa only has feelings, she'll never understand or 'feel' what I 'feel' about her, and all those that are mine". And remember, Jesus is God. So He feels what we feel and more.

[Nessa]

Will think about your post.

My head is spinning from trying to work this out

Will relax with a glass of wine cup of tea and post in awhile

[Nessa]

Thought you were saying God is the judge so essentially everyone is a brother or sister to you because you dont know who the real christians are.

Yes and no. I know who is or isn't by how someone chooses to dwell. People can come and go as brothers/sisters. It depends on their relation to Him and me. Regardless, I'll treat everyone as brother/sister. But how I am to them in that role is directly related to who/how they are. I choose to believe in everyone, as I know He wants everyone to come to Him, so I aspire to be that love, too.

I dont see it as a matter of God being loving or unloving for some people going to hell.
Its the only place for us to go if we choose to not love God.

Do you seriously think anyone in hell thinks they are loved by God? Really?

John 3:16 has two parts
He loves everyone
AND those that choose to love him back will have ever lasting life

Why do you think He loves everyone? What do you think about how He hates?

God has no feelings? Well why do we? Why did adam and eve BEFORE the fall when there was no sin? Will there be no feelings in heaven?

God isn't a being, or physical. We have feelings because we have a physical body that can relate to and be driven by emotion. And what do you mean about adam and eve before the fall? I'm not following you.
Um... We are going to have physical bodies... The kingdom comes to Earth. What do you think happens after we die? And after the resurrections?
And if it helps, try thinking about it this way: God has 'feelings' (to our perspective) that we will never be able to feel. He 'thinks' "Nessa only has feelings, she'll never understand or 'feel' what I 'feel' about her, and all those that are mine". And remember, Jesus is God. So He feels what we feel and more.

God IS love so how can God not love? I dont think he hates people in hell.

Why are people less worthy of love cos they choose to not love God? If God's love is constant then he either loves everyone all the time or no one none of the time. If God only loves those who love him, then what is so great about that? Atheists can love better than that.

I am not saying everyone will be with God. Some people will never love him therefore will spend eternity without him. I am not talking universalism.

God must have feelings as jesus is God. Jesus came to show us the father. He didnt have feelings by default because he was human. He expressed to us how God FEELS about things.

Its like Jesus says 'See my tears, see my pain? Well God cries, God hurts, God feels, because
I am he, God in the flesh'

And just as Jesus communicated Father God to the world through words, actions and feelings, are we not called to communicate Jesus to others?

To hurt when others hurt, to feel with them, not just because we sincerely care but because we are jesus's hands and feet AND heart.

[Mallz]

God IS love so how can God not love? I dont think he hates people in hell.

Then address the scriptures of those He hates, who will go through His wrath. I think you're equating loving someone who can still come to Him to someone who has no interest and will not. As if someone will go to hell and think to themselves 'I don't deserve this'...

Why are people less worthy of love cos they choose to not love God? If God's love is constant then he either loves everyone all the time or no one none of the time. If God only loves those who love him, then what is so great about that? Atheists can love better than that.

His love is constant. We are not. That is key. We can choose to be under His love or His wrath. He is constant, as His love; but we are not. He is great because His love is constant and never fails. But we have to be apart of it, on His terms. The terms of Reality. We either keep our individuality but give Him our allegiance (which will in turn effect our alignment towards (R)reality)., or keep our individuality and our allegiance is towards ourselves/humanity/created things. Christ shows us the only way to be aligned with Reality is to live by Him.

God must have feelings as jesus is God. Jesus came to show us the father. He didnt have feelings by default because he was human. He expressed to us how God FEELS about things.
Its like Jesus says 'See my tears, see my pain? Well God cries, God hurts, God feels, because
I am he, God in the flesh'
And just as Jesus communicated Father God to the world through words, actions and feelings, are we not called to communicate Jesus to others?
To hurt when others hurt, to feel with them, not just because we sincerely care but because we are jesus's hands and feet AND hear

I don't think we are fully on the same page here. We are called to walk with those in need. To empathize and help carry their cross. He came to relate to us, to reveal our Father. I agree with what you are saying here. I see you being more accurate in the spirit of things, but getting caught up in the mechanics and confusing things together. When I say 'feelings' I say the responses my body gives me based off emotions. Emotion is the egos response outwardly or inwardly that can direct our will. We have these things that are in motion. But we know He is not in motion nor has/is a 'thing'. But he can transcend and directly relate to us as He has in Jesus. So we can have a personal relation to Him because of Jesus; a divine relation because of the Holy Spirit; and are real because of our Father. We know He is above us in all our ways. And so if you ask does not our Father weep for the world? The answer is no and yes. No, strictly, but figuratively, yes. He is objective, though. So He doesn't have to 'weep' if His creations would not rebel against Him(Reality/nature). And even if He is 'weeping', He is not because He can't go against His own Justice and love towards Himself and those who want to be with Him. So we see the reality we are in is one of relation to Him. What we feel is a shadow of what is Him. And we can glimpse Who He Is by our feelings and how they are an expression of Him.

[Nessa]

Thanks, Mallz

I really do appreciate you taking time to share your thoughts with me
And I think I understand where you are coming from now and that we do somewhat agree.

[B. W.]

Let's try this again... All bible quotes are from the NASB and word meanings applied

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

This next verse sort of illustrates God's love to the world beside his tending and providing for all, etc. It also shows how God has a strong desire for Psalms 91:4 to happen and how he wants to gather his people to Himself...

Mat 23:37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."

Now back to John:

John 3:17-18, "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge (leave in a condemned state) the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes (Trust-attaches themselves) in Him is not judged (Left in a condemned state); he who does not believe has been judged (left in a condemned state) already, because he has not believed (Trusted) in the name (Character) of the only begotten Son of God.

God wants to gather his people back to himself and back into the purpose he had in mind from the beginning. However, people do not want his love. They instead love darkness. Look at out present day with its, NO GOD demands, its don't oppress me justifications, and then God saying, if you abandon me a world of hurt comes your way.

For example in the USA public payer was outlaws in public school 1960's, Back then the most serious student infractions were chewing gum in class, passing notes, a rare fist fight, and cutting up in class. Now - look we have metal detectors in schools, kids shoot each other in mass, students do not respected teachers, personal responsibility is largely unknown and Miley Cyrus and Lady Gaga wannabes...fill the halls and bawdy sick songs fill ears in the halls...

Soon followed by No God mention on or in public buildings/Govt and - we have a country eaten up with vice, addictions, corruption on steroid and meths in politics, and entitlement groupies. Before the atheist won their day, people had a sense of right and wrong, what really is good and evil, also personal responsibility was a virtue emulated on TV and movies. Nowadays - it is not. So God wants people to come to Him but... Isaiah 59:2 says it best...

Jesus continues speaking in John 3

John 3:19 "This is the judgment (official Judgment that separates/divides), that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

Again look at the world and it current state as well as its ancient state what people preferred doing...

John 3:20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

God's love actuality divides and exposes whom and what one loves the most in a person. God's love is tuff love too.

However, those that come to see God's light, that what he mentions is wrong in Gal 5:21, Eph 5:5,6 and 1 Co 6:9,10,11 are said for a reason - they cause harm, illness, slavery. And that a person can be free from from such slavery by God working in them the energy to overcome, not embrace what the world touts as okay (and reality proves it is not), but return to him thru the cross of Christ that exposes real sin that folks seek to justify so Isa 59:1 can be a reality...

John:21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

So can you see this from John 3:16-21? What Malz and myself have been trying to convey a bit more clearly?
-
-
-