The Band that played during the recent attack in France

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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Philip »

Edward: So what do you think we should do, Phil?
Well, I'd start with a realistic assessment of exactly what we are dealing with: Well-organized, well-financed homicidal maniacs who have an evil religious/political-driven agenda that is (threat-wise/agenda-wise) no different than that of the Nazis. Note that, interestingly, the Nazis and the Islamists, the two gravest threats to world peace over the past 100 years, both share and intense hatred of the Jews/are obsessed with them. The means that we must do WHATEVER IT TAKES to stop them and to annihilate them!

NO, military action ON ITS OWN will not stop the ISLAMISTS. But make no mistake about it, a sophisticated, cooperative and ongoing military engagement is a key PART of what we must do. ISIS, in particular, craves and have mounted successful geographic lust for conquered territory. They have conventional, well-armed forces. They have bases and places of operations, where they both mass and congregate, plot, and launch operations from. It such ways, they present strategic targets like any other such enemy. Bomb them, drone them, whatever - which WILL include boots on the ground.

The main reason military action has only slowed ISIS a bit is that it has 1) been willy nilly - not coordinated and sophisticated, not by a large continuously engaging coalition of superior forces - which is what it will take; 2) air power and bombing alone with not get the job done - only in conjunction with conventional forces will it.

Choke off all avenues of strategic importance, especially financial. European newspapers this weekend have estimated that ISIS has a much as 2 trillion dollar of cash - think of the hell that can buy! DEMAND support from our allies, NATO, etc. Take away as much as possible avenues for their propaganda - certainly mosques, radio, online - as possible, wherever possible. Greatly tighten up border and immigration security processes and procedures. Shut down any mosque or organization spewing hateful rhetoric. Encourage peaceful Muslims and Muslim countries wherever justified - and counter Islamist propaganda that our war is against Muslims - NO, it is against Muslims who are causing or encouraging war and mayhem.

So, NO one-trick pony is going to solve this. But it won't be solved until a comprehensive and relentless coalition of military forces and other tactics get serious about it. ANYONE who believes playing nice or giving in to various demands will placate people willing to slaughter civilians, Muslim or not, is delusional! ISIS and other such groups are cancers upon our world, bent upon annihilating all they hate, to bring misery to all in their wake. So, they must be stopped with every weapon at our disposal - in the same way they think of furthering their agenda, using every weapon they can to do so.

When dealing with devils, extraordinary measures are necessary. The world better wake up - and QUICKLY!!!
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

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edwardmurphy wrote:
B. W. wrote:Again why does that really bother you, people with sincerity and concerning love for you actually pray the John 20:23 and 1 John 5:16 way for you - why would this bother you?
You've (singular) deliberately misinterpreted what I've said about you (singular) and your (singular) insulting prayer announcements 3-4 times now. You (singular) know why you (singular) irritate me. If you're (singular) having trouble hearing it from me go ahead and read Nessa's posts. She's explained it to you (singular) twice now.
Eddy my boy, we have taken the time, long time to get to know you by Ed and the other user name. So we talked along time, so I have gotten to know you. So Nessa words a have already been fulfilled here.

Did you not lie to gain access back on this forum - have you been banned since your return? How can you say we are insincere?

Ed you and the FFRF are fearful of honest folks praying for you as the bible says to to, pray for our enemies and those that spitefully use or insult you. Well you used this forum and insulted many here.

The bible tells us to bless those that Persecute us and the FFRF and yourself certainly do so. Therefore to bless one who does these things is done by this kind of by prayer from John 20:22-23 and Eph 1:17, 18 and Col 1:9-14 prayed as a blessing to you. Amen!

I just can't imagine why an atheist is so afraid of being prayed for while they take away Christianity liberties and promote the destruction of Christianity. Why the venom for a God they claim doesn't exist has escaped me. Ed if you and the FFRF really did not believe God exist you would have a live and let live policy, living by your own code of tolerance in a true manner.

Ed, Nessa has not taken the time to talk to you as I have and others here have. She seen you as Ed only not the other user name. So yes, by all indications and injunctions many of us on this forum have earned the right to pray and bless you with forgiveness.

Why is that so offensive to you - it is up to you to prove myself as well as others here are insincere. However, recall, you snuck on this forum, we saw that, and let you remain in your disguise for a time and that alone proves our sincerity and disproves yours. However, you are forgiven of that.

My if you really want to have a real talk an discussion - why do you hate Christianity? And please dispense with the claptrap and talking pint dribble you continue to spout.

How about things like, were you molested, brow beaten in a Catholic school, saw a loved one die of cancer, beaten up at some point in your life, how about the real personal reason not - not this bug in the eye stuff talking point stuff, but what in the heck in your life causes you to hate so much?

Are you paid for coming on forums? How about telling us Your true agenda or even something actually good about yourself like what you accomplished in life so far. Do you have children, grand kids? Are you paid and in fact several people?

Without that - there is really no getting to know Ed enough other than as a very Christian phobic person who simply loves hate.

So Ed folks will pray for you and you can't stop it. in Jesus Name you can't stop it...NO...
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

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:censored:
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by edwardmurphy »

B. W. wrote:I just can't imagine why an atheist is so afraid of being prayed for while they take away Christianity liberties and promote the destruction of Christianity. Why the venom for a God they claim doesn't exist has escaped me. Ed if you and the FFRF really did not believe God exist you would have a live and let live policy, living by your own code of tolerance in a true manner.
Where did you get the impression that I was afraid of anything? Oh, right, you're projecting it onto me. And venom? Oh, right, you're projecting that too.
B. W. wrote:Why is that so offensive to you - it is up to you to prove myself as well as others here are insincere. However, recall, you snuck on this forum, we saw that, and let you remain in your disguise for a time and that alone proves our sincerity and disproves yours. However, you are forgiven of that.
Thanks for your (singular) forgiveness, but frankly if you'd (singular) truly forgiven me you'd (singular) have shut up about it by now. Instead you're (singular) repeatedly rubbing my face in it. So yes, B.W., I used to post under a different fake name, yes, you (singular) banned me. You're (singular) correct that I don't much care for you (singular), although if you (singular) think that it's because you (singular) banned me ages ago then you're (singular) still not reading what I write. I don't like you (singular) because you're (singular) a closed-minded zealot, you're (singular) dishonest and disingenuous, you (singular) have a consistent double standard, you're (singular) completely unreasonable and inflexible, you (singular) have no interest in a sincere dialogue, and you (singular) use your supposedly sincere prayers as an opportunity to belittle me.

If every single other Christian on these boards is praying for me day and night that's completely fine with me. I don't think it amounts to anything other than (hopefully) kind thoughts, but I don't object to it. How could I? On what grounds? Their thoughts are their own and they're none of my business.

Here's a real life example. Our second pregnancy didn't go quite as smoothly as the first, and for a while it looked like we might have some real problems. I was talking it over a coworker when she said "I know that you're not a prayerful man, but I've been praying for you, your wife, and you're little girl." Now based on your characterization of me one might expect that I'd have said "@#%$ YOU!" and then sued her. But your characterization of me is completely wrong, so what I actually did was say "Thank you" and give her a hug. See, I don't believe in the power of prayer, but I appreciate that she cares about me and my family and that she's there to offer her support.

YOU (Singular!), by comparison, have repeatedly made a point of telling me that you're (singular) praying that God will help me get past what you (singular) regard as my character flaws. That's obnoxious because your (singular) goal is to offend me. If you (singular) were to shut up bout it and just pray for me then I'd have no objection. But you (singular) won't. You (singular) just can't resist the opportunity to be smug and self-righteous - not because you're (singular) a Christian, but because that's the kind of person you (singular) are. If you (singular) were a Muslim, a Hindu, or an atheist you'd (singular) be just as insufferable.
B. W. wrote:My if you really want to have a real talk an discussion - why do you hate Christianity? And please dispense with the claptrap and talking pint dribble you continue to spout.

How about things like, were you molested, brow beaten in a Catholic school, saw a loved one die of cancer, beaten up at some point in your life, how about the real personal reason not - not this bug in the eye stuff talking point stuff, but what in the heck in your life causes you to hate so much?
If I had anything to confide, which I don't, do you really imagine that I'd open up to you (singular)? You're (singular) one of the most obnoxious people I've ever encountered, and based on all of your (singular) previous behavior I suspect that you'd (singular) somehow find a way to use my personal trauma against me.

Seriously, I'm the one that's deluded?
B. W. wrote:Are you paid for coming on forums? How about telling us Your true agenda or even something actually good about yourself like what you accomplished in life so far. Do you have children, grand kids? Are you paid and in fact several people?
Again, I hesitate you give you (singular) much personal information, basically because I'm not sure what you'd do with it, but I suspect that it would tick me off. Here's a thumbnail sketch of me an mine:

I'm a guy, I'm married, I have two daughters (a toddler and an infant), I have accomplished a variety of things but none of them are newsworthy, there is only one of me, and no, nobody is paying me (seriously???). I'm pretty sure I've already posted all of that information, other than the part about being my being singular and amateur, which I assumed was assumed.
B. W. wrote:So Ed folks will pray for you and you can't stop it. in Jesus Name you can't stop it...NO...
No, it burrrrns! Gaaaaahhh!!!

Seriously, you're (singular) ridiculous.
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by B. W. »

Ed you mentioned this: Our second pregnancy didn't go quite as smoothly as the first.

What happened? and what was the result? Has anyone asked you about this?


---

Onto the other issue and point raised...

Ed.... Look at what Hawkins and another atheist said about a UK movie advertisement concerning prayer
Still, Dawkins remains opposed to the decision by the Odeon Cineworld and Vue movie theater chains.

“I still strongly object to suppressing the ads on the grounds that they might ‘offend’ people,” he said. “If anybody is ‘offended’ by something so trivial as a prayer, they deserve to be offended.”

Others like Sarah Wollaston, a Conservative Party member of parliament, tweeted, “As a gentle atheist, I’m not offended by Church screening gentle cinema adverts; we shouldn’t reject our deep cultural roots in Christianity.”

Quotes from the article
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by edwardmurphy »

B. W. wrote:Ed you mentioned this: Our second pregnancy didn't go quite as smoothly as the first.

What happened? and what was the result? Has anyone asked you about this?
My wife and I were old to be having kids, so we were in the high-risk category to begin with. The pregnancy went fine for the first two trimesters, but after that the baby's growth slowed down and my wife's amniotic fluid levels began to fluctuate. That concerned the doctors, so we went through a bunch of additional testing. Eventually they decided that her growth rate was too low for her to go all the way to 40 weeks, so they induced labor 2 weeks early. Labor went great, and now we have a small, but vigorous and healthy, daughter. She's put on enough weight in the last couple months to finally get her onto the growth chart (3rd percentile for weight, 1st percentile for length). So all's well that ends well. Thanks for asking.
B. W. wrote:Onto the other issue and point raised...

Ed.... Look at what Hawkins and another atheist said about a UK movie advertisement concerning prayer
Still, Dawkins remains opposed to the decision by the Odeon Cineworld and Vue movie theater chains.

“I still strongly object to suppressing the ads on the grounds that they might ‘offend’ people,” he said. “If anybody is ‘offended’ by something so trivial as a prayer, they deserve to be offended.”

Others like Sarah Wollaston, a Conservative Party member of parliament, tweeted, “As a gentle atheist, I’m not offended by Church screening gentle cinema adverts; we shouldn’t reject our deep cultural roots in Christianity.”

Quotes from the article
Ok, two things -

1) I don't base my feelings, decisions, or beliefs on the opinions of Richard Dawkins, or conservative MPs, or anyone else, so that information doesn't concern me.

2) I'm not offended by prayer. If you'd just said "I'll pray for you" I wouldn't have had strong feelings one way or the other. But that's not all you said.
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Philip »

Ed, so glad your child is healthy. We, also, were considerably older to be having kids, especially the second one (I was 46/wife 45). Our first was premature. It's a pretty scary thing, considering the frightening possibilities. Actually, my first big scare with the 2nd one came at ultrasound. Sitting there praying this would be a healthy looking baby - which it was - and then the technician said, "ooh, and what is this OTHER shape over there? Whole time I'm thinking please don't let it be "TWINS???!!!" They run in the family and my sisters are twins. It was crazy enough to be a month from 47 and having another kid - but TWINS???!!! Mercy!
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by B. W. »

edwardmurphy wrote:
B. W. wrote:Ed you mentioned this: Our second pregnancy didn't go quite as smoothly as the first.

What happened? and what was the result? Has anyone asked you about this?
My wife and I were old to be having kids, so we were in the high-risk category to begin with. The pregnancy went fine for the first two trimesters, but after that the baby's growth slowed down and my wife's amniotic fluid levels began to fluctuate. That concerned the doctors, so we went through a bunch of additional testing. Eventually they decided that her growth rate was too low for her to go all the way to 40 weeks, so they induced labor 2 weeks early. Labor went great, and now we have a small, but vigorous and healthy, daughter. She's put on enough weight in the last couple months to finally get her onto the growth chart (3rd percentile for weight, 1st percentile for length). So all's well that ends well. Thanks for asking.
Thankfully all went well. That is good news. How are both your daughter and your wife doing now?
edwardmurphy wrote:
B. W. wrote:Onto the other issue and point raised...

Ed.... Look at what Hawkins and another atheist said about a UK movie advertisement concerning prayer
Still, Dawkins remains opposed to the decision by the Odeon Cineworld and Vue movie theater chains.

“I still strongly object to suppressing the ads on the grounds that they might ‘offend’ people,” he said. “If anybody is ‘offended’ by something so trivial as a prayer, they deserve to be offended.”

Others like Sarah Wollaston, a Conservative Party member of parliament, tweeted, “As a gentle atheist, I’m not offended by Church screening gentle cinema adverts; we shouldn’t reject our deep cultural roots in Christianity.”

Quotes from the article
Ok, two things -

1) I don't base my feelings, decisions, or beliefs on the opinions of Richard Dawkins, or conservative MPs, or anyone else, so that information doesn't concern me.

2) I'm not offended by prayer. If you'd just said "I'll pray for you" I wouldn't have had strong feelings one way or the other. But that's not all you said.
First off, when I mention to someone that I will be praying for someone, I tell hem what I am specifically praying for. That avoids the question of deceit and lying to someone. Often, people do not like to be prayed to become saved and set free. When I was an atheist, I did not like that either but now thank those who did and had the courage to tell me they were and what for and why.

What irritated me back then, when I was an atheist, that folks were praying for me was because I carried life's garbage dumped on me while growing up and blamed God for it all. Back in late 1968-early 69 my grandfather had a heart attacked and died and that event was one reason I turned away for any concept about God. Then growing up in VA midst all the political protest and turmoil as well as actual race riots and being severely beaten up in schools by black thugs and no one helped also had an affect. Add to this the anti-god rhetoric from school too and the area south of DC in VA where I grew up had affects. I grew up having to fight and defend myself in an era and time of hate.

Being young and slipping into militant atheism I did this because I could not grasp how dark the world really is. Those things influenced me to justify my hate toward God with and in a complete ignorance about who God is. So when Campus Crusade for Christ folks or people from churches tried to witness to me, I was openly hostile. They too mentioned to me that they would pray for me the same way I mentioned to you as well too. That caused me to react in extreme disdain or anger. However, I could not say to them that they were dishonest or sneaky or even manipulative - they told me the truth concerning what they were doing as well as their concern.

I mocked their Roman road approach and some of their Calvinist or Arminian witnessing techniques as these posed no threat but their prayers made me furious. I now understand why that was after becoming Born again and redeemed and set free by Jesus Christ from my life's darkness and life's garbage wounds held deep within my own heart. For me to not tell you what I am specifically praying for you for would indeed be disingenuous to you. Can you see that now?

So, the reason I asked you what in the world happened in your life, what life garbage that caused you to be an atheist (not the typical talking points you constantly bring up as these are a waste of everyone's time) but the real reason for it. There is a reason for this and has anyone ever asked you the real reason why - what turned you into an atheist? I told you mine in brief, so is it possible for you to enlighten us here?

This way, we might have a genuine discussion instead of endless round robin talking points that benefit no one.

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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by B. W. »

For the readers,

I know the topic has strayed off course btwn myself and Ed but actually it hasn't...

So to help other get back to the topic, here is an article worth noting: Obama: Syrian refugees are like pilgrims on the Mayflower

According to leftist logic and reshaping/rewriting of US history that is taught in schools the Pilgrims were Calvinist who are responsible for the evil America work ethic that eventually launched the US into the evils of capitalism as well promoted the slaughter of indigenous peoples (albiet the natives were slaughtering each other long before European settlers came. Many tribes allied with the Europeans to wipe out their native enemies as they always had - every man woman and child. Very brutal times where none are innocent).

Next read this: http://www.manataka.org/page269.html

After years of investigating the history of all the stuff that went on back in the 1600's in America, do you see something in Obama's statement: Obama: Syrian refugees are like pilgrims on the Mayflower...

I do...
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PS - the leftist rewrite of history leaves out the fact I mentioned above: The natives peoples were slaughtering each other long before European settlers came. Many tribes allied with the Europeans to wipe out their native enemies as they always had - every man woman and child.

I work with native folks and their oral history is filled with revenge against each other that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand on edge. Tribes allied themselves with those who had better weapons to wipe out their enemies. In fact, look and the Mayan and Aztec peoples as an example in south and central america. Back then, all sides were brutal toward each other in degrees unknown to us, today. AS the bible says, there is none righteous, no not one is certainly true.

The leftist PC rewrite of history blames Europeans and often overlooks the indigenous people own atrocities against fellow indigenous people in order to push a leftist narrative agenda. We need to be objective and truthful about historical records. All are indeed sinners in need of a savior, that is the testament of human history.

I recall in Mescalreo NM with the Apaches and in the Northern Tribe areas of SD, we forgave each other for what what our ancestors did to each other. Very powerful and bonding too. Many tears shed. Very powerful move of God and healing!

However with true historical flow and ebb of Islam, there is no such bonding permitted. It is a them verses the rest of the world mentality of the middle ages reborn.

Obama: Syrian refugees are like pilgrims on the Mayflower.
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by B. W. »

Hmmm, in Saudi Arabia, the home of moderate normal Islam comes this:

Artist in Saudi Prison Sentenced to Death for Apostasy Says There’s a Big Problem With the Charge Against Him

Amazing is the religion of Peace!
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by EssentialSacrifice »

home of moderate normal Islam comes this:
moderately normal Muslims, per that article are anything but normal (in western eyes) and if that's moderation then there's no hope for coming together as civilized religious entities. There simply is no grey area to discuss ... :shakehead:

unless I'm missing a piece of the puzzle that somehow unifies. The only way I see it happening is at the Second Coming.
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein »

EssentialSacrifice wrote:
home of moderate normal Islam comes this:
moderately normal Muslims, per that article are anything but normal (in western eyes) and if that's moderation then there's no hope for coming together as civilized religious entities. There simply is no grey area to discuss ... :shakehead:
»Moderately normal» Muslims would be strictly secular Muslims from our point of view. Wahabism is scripturally accurate Islam. ISIS is also scripturally accurate Islam but they believe the Saudis have sold out to the West. Saudi is a kinder Wahabism, ISIS takes it to the limit.

Another way to look at this is:

Saudi Wahabism is canned spaghetti; ISIS spaghetti is freshly made and tasty.

:teacher:
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by melanie »

B. W. wrote:Hmmm, in Saudi Arabia, the home of moderate normal Islam comes this:

Artist in Saudi Prison Sentenced to Death for Apostasy Says There’s a Big Problem With the Charge Against Him

Amazing is the religion of Peace!
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What the whatety heck???
Are you kidding me??.
IS that how deep the rabbit hole goes??

How on God's good earth could anybody say that Saudi Arabia is the home of moderate Islam??!!
You don't see it in your news because the US is in partnership with Saudi Arabia in regards to oil trade.
You won't see a suicide bomber blow himself up and everyone in a 5 mile radius with a Saudi intact passport!! Let's make that clear!

There is nothing moderate about Saudi Arabia.
The worst violations of woman's rights in in Saudi Arabia.
Worse than Iraq, by ten fold.
Worse than Syria.
But you don't see it because WHY???
Because the US has diplomatic ties and an open oil trade.
Saudi Arabia sucks.
It's sharia Law in its glory.
Woman can't work, vote, drive, move around freely, have an education. They can't by law wear the clothing they choose. There are executions by beheading. Limbs are amputated.
Not under Isis but under government rule.
This is the worst country that violates human and woman rights.
But Saudi royalty walk the walk with oil trade.
Whilst the women and citizens suffer.
Not to mention the treatment and genicide of Yemen.
Heard of that on your news lately??

Make no mistake the Arab countries the west has interest in, takes arms against, the governments they try to overthrow buy arming and training resistant groups are for OUR benefit.

Money, money money.

It is proof to me how disproportionate the news coverage must be if anyone thinks for a second that Saudi Arabia is moderate.
If the fight was really against Islam in its radical form then it would be on the doorstep of Saudi Arabia.
But it's not!!

Just are a look at the Turks that shot down the Russian pilots who then danced around the bodies on social media claiming Allah is great. That the US and west then defended them because it's in their political interest. These are resistant fighters against Assad. Armed by the west.
How long before they pull an al Qaeda and turn on us??.

It's a dogs breakfast.
But as long as we keep lapping up the propa and hating who we are dictated too, then the wheels keep turning.
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by edwardmurphy »

Philip wrote:Ed, so glad your child is healthy. We, also, were considerably older to be having kids, especially the second +one (I was 46/wife 45). Our first was premature. It's a pretty scary thing, considering the frightening possibilities. Actually, my first big scare with the 2nd one came at ultrasound. Sitting there praying this would be a healthy looking baby - which it was - and then the technician said, "ooh, and what is this OTHER shape over there? Whole time I'm thinking please don't let it be "TWINS???!!!" They run in the family and my sisters are twins. It was crazy enough to be a month from 47 and having another kid - but TWINS???!!! Mercy!
Thanks, Phil. Wow, you guys are even older than us - we're 40 and 43. So was it twins? I also have twin sisters, so we were a bit concerned about that possibility. We're in a 2-bedroom condo and there's no way we can afford a bigger place in our neighborhood, so we'd have had to move. As it is things are tight, but I think we can make it work for a while longer.
B. W. wrote:Thankfully all went well. That is good news. How are both your daughter and your wife doing now?
Thanks, B.W.

My wife is tired, but doing well. The baby is great. Her big sister is adjusting. Change is hard, y'know?
B. W. wrote:First off, when I mention to someone that I will be praying for someone, I tell hem what I am specifically praying for. That avoids the question of deceit and lying to someone. Often, people do not like to be prayed to become saved and set free. When I was an atheist, I did not like that either but now thank those who did and had the courage to tell me they were and what for and why.
I don't think it would have been deceitful to either say nothing or to omit the detains of your prayers. I'm not entitled to know all of your thoughts, even if they relate to me. Anyway, I have no problem with anyone praying for anything, but I took umbrage to the implied judgement in your statement. I'm over it now. Have been for a while.
B. W. wrote:What irritated me back then, when I was an atheist, that folks were praying for me was because I carried life's garbage dumped on me while growing up and blamed God for it all.
If you were blaming God for things then you were never an atheist. Same with prayers - to an atheist (that is me) a prayer is just a conversation with an imaginary entity. There's no problem unless that conversation becomes overtly insulting or coercive.

Let me clarify that last bit with an example:

During our mandatory, school-wide assembly I will pray that God will give you strength to stop acting like such a jackass.


Key: Coercive, Inoffensive, Offensive
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: The Band that played during the recent attack in France

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein »

edwardmurphy wrote:Thanks, Phil. Wow, you guys are even older than us - we're 40 and 43...
Wow! You're pretty old! I thought you were a young guy...maybe in your mid twenties.

:wheelchair:
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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