Ethics on killing?

SourceofLiFe · Post by **SourceofLiFe** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:40 pm

My friend Kurieuo

Perhaps I am not delivering the message clear to you or perhaps you have problems perceiving my message.

You can save someone by bringing them to Christ.

Can you save someone from hunger when you happen to have a loathe of bread which is enough to serve both you and that someone?

Sure you can, that is what the bread of life is all about.

So do not lack faith in the strength of our Lord. You are saying we cannot save others because we cannot save ourself is under estimation on the strength of our Lord.

Jesus Christ told us that he is the Bread of Life, what you're saying is the Bread is not enough for everyone, how can we share when we don't have enough for ourselves? That's a selfish thinking, by giving to others, you are also saving yourself.

Human beings can go 40 days without food, it is not their hunger that kills them, it is their anxiety.

By giving to people, it gives you a sense of fulfillment and bring peace to your otherwise worried mind during those critical moments.

Just remember those who are lost and died in the woods, they died not because they couldn't find food, they had water, it's their mind that killed them.

Perhaps if you start giving to people, then you will be saved and would no longer be in needs? Therefore your statement is false.

Remember how Jesus satisfied everyone on the bread incident? How there weren't enough bread for everyone then he used his glory to fulfill everyone's needs?

Show more faith to our Lord my friend...

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:51 pm

Umm, what does that have to do with the subject at hand? Are you suggesting that in this situation, we should try to convert the unbelievers to Christ?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:01 pm

Just to throw another thought into the melting pot...

In the Bible, God calls upon us to lead good lives so as to witness effectively to others (can't remember chapter and verse, but IIRC Paul writes about this a lot). If you have the ability to intervene and prevent someone getting killed, doesn't it look real bad (immoral and cowardly) to non-Christians if you don't step in? Obviously this shouldn't be placed above God's more specific commands, but, in the absence of a specific rule against defending others, it's worth thinking about.

This isn't just a Christian issue. Humanists would question "You may have a right to be a pacifist for yourself, but do you have the right to be a pacifist for others?" It's less of an issue for me as I'm not a great pacifist anyway, but it seems to crop up a lot.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:52 pm

Stepping in does not mean it gives us the right to go against one of the ten commandments of which Jesus made clear were still very much in effect.

There is a difference between harming someone and killing them, just something to think about.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:32 pm

The commandment says "thou shalt not murder", not "thou shalt not kill" as it is often misinterpreted.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:23 pm

perhaps but i don't see in a situation as you mentioned, how going to call the police which may result in death for the victim wouldn't be a valid option to killing the criminal to "save" the victim. I don't think it matters too much in general, we are forgiven for are miscalculated actions. I'm just against the whole idea that christians are the police of this world, when in fact Jesus said to not let him catch us occupied with the problems of this life.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:51 pm

Calling the police and waiting for the police to come will probably lead to the girl's death, since it takes a bit before the police gets there. You would have to distract them if there is any hope of saving her. If you do call the police, you could hope you can keep them busy until they get there, but action may need to be taken if they catch on or get tired. At any rate, murder is wrongful killing. If they are willing to take another life, it is their choice to go against God's will. They are the ones who caused the entire situation to begin with, and as such, common sense should tell you they should be the first to die if needed be. No matter who dies, it is God's will, so if you do kill them, then it is God's will. If they kill you, it is also God's will.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:58 pm

so fast! i was thinking about what to write, read my edited one and everything can't be God's will as we have free will, sure everything that happens God allows it to happen but thats because its irrelevant.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:01 pm

Police of the world? All I know if that if somebody screams for help, I will help them. If it means being the police of the world, so be it. This life may be temporary, but that does not mean we should disregard it completely. We are here to be tested. If I slept through an exam, simply because it's not a real job, will the professor understand? Hell no, he'd give me a zero and flunk me.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:07 pm

Ok of course we must help but think about this:

If a homeless man asks you to help him steal, would you do it.
No! so i think there are limits within everything which God has outlined for us.

Or help your brother get away with murder..it goes on forever, just because someone is pleading for help, doesn't always mean its our duty to answer.

Isn't murder also defined in the bible, i'm not sure, would be something to look into.

Your right life is a test, so we must obey the Lord before everything else, we are just arguing whether this killing would be a sin, to no luck it appears.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:20 pm

vvart wrote:Ok of course we must help but think about this:

If a homeless man asks you to help him steal, would you do it.
No! so i think there are limits within everything which God has outlined for us.

Or help your brother get away with murder..it goes on forever, just because someone is pleading for help, doesn't always mean its our duty to answer.

Isn't murder also defined in the bible, i'm not sure, would be something to look into.

Your right life is a test, so we must obey the Lord before everything else, we are just arguing whether this killing would be a sin, to no luck it appears.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't jump at the chance to kill somebody. I would only do it if I felt it was the absolute last resort. If a poor person asked me to help him steal, I would give him money. If my brother asked me to help him kill, I would give him a psychiatrist or a priest. They need help either way, but they are asking for the wrong things.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:38 pm

Yep i'll agree with that, however as Jesus mentions, if we want God to show mercy towards us, we must show mercy towards others.

to Kurieuo:
I mentioned that we are judged by good deeds in that if killing a criminal to save another is murder which is a sin then this sin wouldn't be canceled by the fact that a "life" was saved.

Also your right if I knew someone was going to attack my family or anyone for that matter, I would intervene, but say I lived and I stopped them, should i take it further and kill them to prevent them from ever attacking again or show them mercy.

SourceofLiFe · Post by **SourceofLiFe** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:29 am

If you have the ability to kill someone, that means you have the ability to hurt someone.

Hurting someone is more than enough than to kill someone [taking their life out of them]and by hurting someone, injuring their legs upon the situation Mastermind presented, it is more than enough to save the girl and yourself. So why kill? Killing is brutal, it is wicked and it is wrong.

Why must you take a step further thats beyond your needs to harm another life?

Worst, self-justifying this cause is not what Jesus Christ is about.

To kill you need that intention, especially in those situation presented by Mastermind.

Injuring them to stall them is more than enough to save the situation. No need to take it further to take their life out of them.

It is already wrong to hurt someone else for your own gain [ it is your own gain when you don't need to witness the brutal reality of the girl being raped] and it is also the gain of the girl.

But taking it to another level by killing is just more wrong at another level and to find reason to self-justify this is beyond wrongfulness.

Think about this, if you must take violent action because your guts tell you so, then at least try not to think in terms of killing.

That is for your own sake.

SourceofLiFe · Post by **SourceofLiFe** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:35 am

Also you must realize, ones action leads to ones consequences.

In the case presented by mastermind, if the girl did not put herself into those situation, then the event would not occur.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:50 am

Girl put herself in the situation? You mean asked to be raped? Because if she asks, then it's not really rape, and no longer a problem...