Alright, i got a good question.
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
American Atheist society defines atheism as: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
Majority of online Dictionaries agree with the Free Dictionary definition of atheism as: Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
So much of the discussion revolves around defining what a lack of belief in god/gods is and how is that different from not being a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods?
This is simply doublespeak.
Lack simply means: the state of being without or not having enough of something.
So if atheism is a lack of belief in gods. then atheist are saying they have state of being without, or not having enough, belief in god or gods.
How is that different from disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods? -- I do not know.
So if atheism is simply a state of being without, or not having enough, belief in god. Then that means they are searching for God.
Talk about confusing...
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Majority of online Dictionaries agree with the Free Dictionary definition of atheism as: Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
So much of the discussion revolves around defining what a lack of belief in god/gods is and how is that different from not being a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods?
This is simply doublespeak.
Lack simply means: the state of being without or not having enough of something.
So if atheism is a lack of belief in gods. then atheist are saying they have state of being without, or not having enough, belief in god or gods.
How is that different from disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods? -- I do not know.
So if atheism is simply a state of being without, or not having enough, belief in god. Then that means they are searching for God.
Talk about confusing...
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Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
- Storyteller
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
So what's an agnostic?
I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.
I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
You pretty much got the basics of it.Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?
I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
- Storyteller
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.RickD wrote:You pretty much got the basics of it.Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?
I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
Because he's a fool.Storyteller wrote:Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.RickD wrote:You pretty much got the basics of it.Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?
I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.
Psalms 14:1
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
- neo-x
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
Because they probably haven't experienced God or haven't realized it yet. People don't believe in God or not believe in him because of simple logic. At the back of it is, reason and experience merged together. That is why you don't accept Krishna, the Hindu God and don't Identify with Allah, is the same way an atheist doesn't accept Christ.Storyteller wrote:Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.RickD wrote:You pretty much got the basics of it.Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?
I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
- neo-x
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
Not really, not always.RickD wrote:Because he's a fool.Storyteller wrote:Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.RickD wrote:You pretty much got the basics of it.Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?
I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.
Psalms 14:1
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
- RickD
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
Of course, always. It's one thing to not know if one believes in God. But to categorically state that there is no God? That's the height of foolish thinking. It goes against logic and reason.neo-x wrote:Not really, not always.RickD wrote:Because he's a fool.Storyteller wrote:Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.RickD wrote:You pretty much got the basics of it.Storyteller wrote:So what's an agnostic?
I have always thought atheism was denying God exists, which although I cant explain it, is different (to me) than not believing in God.
Agnostic... not believing God exists but saying there is a possibility He exists.
Psalms 14:1
And, I'm talking about God in general. A theistic God. Not specifically the trinitarian God of scripture.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
- neo-x
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
It's not that simple. Logic and reason are utterly the wrong reasons to believe in a God (since a belief in a theistic God, in general, is useless), and that is quite apparent with the (non-believer) lot that actually tries to believe in God in that way and fails. To believe in God requires faith at a point where logic and reason fails.RickD wrote:Of course, always. It's one thing to not know if one believes in God. But to categorically state that there is no God? That's the height of foolish thinking. It goes against logic and reason.neo-x wrote:Not really, not always.RickD wrote:Because he's a fool.Storyteller wrote:Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.RickD wrote: You pretty much got the basics of it.
Psalms 14:1
And, I'm talking about God in general. A theistic God. Not specifically the trinitarian God of scripture.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
Then I take it you're not a fan of The Logical Arguments for the Existence of God?neo-x wrote:It's not that simple. Logic and reason are utterly the wrong reasons to believe in a God (since a belief in a theistic God, in general, is useless), and that is quite apparent with the (non-believer) lot that actually tries to believe in God in that way and fails. To believe in God requires faith at a point where logic and reason fails.RickD wrote:Of course, always. It's one thing to not know if one believes in God. But to categorically state that there is no God? That's the height of foolish thinking. It goes against logic and reason.neo-x wrote:Not really, not always.RickD wrote:Because he's a fool.Storyteller wrote: Now all I gotta do is figure out why anyone would catergorically state there is no God.
Psalms 14:1
And, I'm talking about God in general. A theistic God. Not specifically the trinitarian God of scripture.
Belief in a theistic God is most certainly not useless. If someone can be shown by logic, that God exists, he may then be open to see that the God of the bible exists. Some people are more logically driven(scientific types), and can see the existence of God through logic.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
- neo-x
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
It's not about being a fan of this or that. At best these take you to a deist God. What then? you need faith at some point and that is where logic won't help. Does logic help that a man walked on water or rose up from the grave or made water to wine or raised the dead? do you have logic for that?RickD wrote:Then I take it you're not a fan of The Logical Arguments for the Existence of God?neo-x wrote:It's not that simple. Logic and reason are utterly the wrong reasons to believe in a God (since a belief in a theistic God, in general, is useless), and that is quite apparent with the (non-believer) lot that actually tries to believe in God in that way and fails. To believe in God requires faith at a point where logic and reason fails.RickD wrote:Of course, always. It's one thing to not know if one believes in God. But to categorically state that there is no God? That's the height of foolish thinking. It goes against logic and reason.neo-x wrote:Not really, not always.RickD wrote: Because he's a fool.
Psalms 14:1
And, I'm talking about God in general. A theistic God. Not specifically the trinitarian God of scripture.
Belief in a theistic God is most certainly not useless. If someone can be shown by logic, that God exists, he may then be open to see that the God of the bible exists. Some people are more logically driven(scientific types), and can see the existence of God through logic.
In my talks on and off this forum, what I have come to believe is that there may be a very tiny group who solely believe in God by logic or reason, but the majority just wrap it up in intellectuality to give it a nice presentation. Internally we don't believe in God because it makes sense logically but rather what we experience of God. That experience weighs more than any logic. And the same goes for non-believers. It's not more about logic, it's about your experience of God.
Anyway, to the main point, not everyone who doesn't believe in God is a fool. That verse is David's experience and from what I understand, he might be more inclined to be talking about apostasy than atheism. But even if he isn't it's still a very general statement, applying it wholesale on everyone sounds fairly ill-assumed.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
- Storyteller
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
Before I came to find Christ, I believed in God. It was totally and utterly logical for me, nothing else made as much sense so I disagree about logic not being used to believe in God.
I have pondered on the Big Bang (God thinking the universe into existence, the ultimate flash of inspiration), science, for me, points to God. Sure, my faith is important but logic and reason form part of that faith.
I have pondered on the Big Bang (God thinking the universe into existence, the ultimate flash of inspiration), science, for me, points to God. Sure, my faith is important but logic and reason form part of that faith.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
Re: Alright, i got a good question.
How do you figure? Rather, it would necessarily lead to a timeless, immaterial, omnipotent, omniscient, unique, and intelligent entity.neo-x wrote:It's not about being a fan of this or that. At best these take you to a deist God.
I agree with you there, that's a matter of revelation. But you gotta start somewhere ...neo-x wrote:you need faith at some point and that is where logic won't help. Does logic help that a man walked on water or rose up from the grave or made water to wine or raised the dead? do you have logic for that?
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
I agree Byblos. That's what I'm saying. And,that's what the logical arguments for God, are saying.Byblos wrote:How do you figure? Rather, it would necessarily lead to a timeless, immaterial, omnipotent, omniscient, unique, and intelligent entity.neo-x wrote:It's not about being a fan of this or that. At best these take you to a deist God.
I agree with you there, that's a matter of revelation. But you gotta start somewhere ...neo-x wrote:you need faith at some point and that is where logic won't help. Does logic help that a man walked on water or rose up from the grave or made water to wine or raised the dead? do you have logic for that?
That wasn't the main point Neo.neo wrote:
Anyway, to the main point, not everyone who doesn't believe in God is a fool...
Storyteller asked about people who "categorically state there is no God".
There's a difference between "categorically stating there is no God", and simply "not believing in God".
I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't believe, is a fool. Scripture doesn't say that. Scripture says "the fool says there is no God".
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
- Storyteller
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Re: Alright, i got a good question.
And I agree with you rick.
There is a huge difference between saying there is no God and not believing in God.
There is a huge difference between saying there is no God and not believing in God.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran