Prophecies that haven't been fulfilled yet

[PaulSacramento]

Now, realize what I am saying here is not an easy way out for non-believers, far from that.
To be judged on what we do and why we do it is a very harsh judgment, especially when:
Do Not Judge
7 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive.

Now, I most certainly do NOT believe in Christ so that my ass is saved.
I believed in Him before I understood the need for salvation, I believe in Him because of His love for Us.
BUT I am very thankful that I will not be judged on what I have done.
Of course I also realize that the "judgement process" is already working in me, through Him who strengthens me.

[Storyteller]

Paul?
Are you saying that non believers that do good will get to heaven?
I read the goats and sheep as differentiating between believers and non believers.
If 'good' people are welcomed to God then why believe in Christ at all?

[RickD]

Paul?
Are you saying that non believers that do good will get to heaven?
I read the goats and sheep as differentiating between believers and non believers.
If 'good' people are welcomed to God then why believe in Christ at all?

See Paul? Even the British broad gets it!

[PaulSacramento]

Paul?
Are you saying that non believers that do good will get to heaven?
I read the goats and sheep as differentiating between believers and non believers.
If 'good' people are welcomed to God then why believe in Christ at all?

Look at what Christ says in the parable:

40 And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

Who are His brothers and sisters?
Us, those that believe Him and do Our Father's will in heaven.

Am I saying that non-believers will go to heaven?
I am saying that they will be judged according to their works and the rest is for God to decide.
I can only say this explicitly because Christ states so explicitly:
Those that blaspheme the HS will perish.

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the person who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

28 I tell you the truth, people will be forgiven for all sins, even all the blasphemies they utter. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin”

As for the rest, I leave it up to God to decide.

I can only state what is written.

[PaulSacramento]

It goes back to what I mentioned before, that HOPEFUL belief that if you are good enough you don't have to believe and you will be saved.
Well, what is good "enough"?
Like I mentioned above, those that are judged WILL be judged by their OWN standard and God KNOWS each of us so very, very well.
Think about that before you think the "easy way" is "just" to be good.

[RickD]

PaulS wrote:
Like I said before, belief in Christ does NOT save us from death since we all die

Belief in Christ give us eternal life. Which is the same as saying believing in Christ, saves us from spiritual death.

[PaulSacramento]

PaulS wrote:
Like I said before, belief in Christ does NOT save us from death since we all die

Belief in Christ give us eternal life. Which is the same as saying believing in Christ, saves us from spiritual death.

And saves us from judgment:
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

I mean, it is explicitly stated by Christ.

[RickD]

Paul,

The Olivet Discourse is about Christ's millennial kingdom. It's not meant to be applied to the eternal life of all believers.

[PaulSacramento]

Paul,

The Olivet Discourse is about Christ's millennial kingdom. It's not meant to be applied to the eternal life of all believers.

How would a first century Jew have seen it Rick?
The parable of the sheep and goats is not one of those "scratch our head" parables.
It is one of Jesus' more clear and explicit statements on the day of Judgment and falls perfectly in line with what He says in John 5.
Again, I have no problem with anyone disagree with my view, just that saying it isn't scriptural when it is explicitly stated in scripture is, well, wrong.

My point is simply this:
Scripture states plainly and explicitly that believers will not be judged ( John 5).
It states that there will be a judgment for those that do good and those that don't ( John 5 and Matthew 25).

[RickD]

Paul,

The Olivet Discourse is about Christ's millennial kingdom. It's not meant to be applied to the eternal life of all believers.

How would a first century Jew have seen it Rick?
The parable of the sheep and goats is not one of those "scratch our head" parables.
It is one of Jesus' more clear and explicit statements on the day of Judgment and falls perfectly in line with what He says in John 5.
Again, I have no problem with anyone disagree with my view, just that saying it isn't scriptural when it is explicitly stated in scripture is, well, wrong.

My point is simply this:
Scripture states plainly and explicitly that believers will not be judged ( John 5).
It states that there will be a judgment for those that do good and those that don't ( John 5 and Matthew 25).

Paul,

Your view isn't scriptural because you misinterpret Matthew 25, to back the view.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that believers won't be judged in regards to their eternal life.
You said nonbelievers who do good, will be saved. But the "saved" that you are referring to in Matthew 25, isn't a "saved to everlasting life". It's "saved" in the context of christs millennial kingdom. It's not talking about the eternal life of believers. Saved in scripture can simply mean "delivered". It doesn't always refer to eternal life.

[Storyteller]

Paul?
Are you saying that non believers that do good will get to heaven?
I read the goats and sheep as differentiating between believers and non believers.
If 'good' people are welcomed to God then why believe in Christ at all?

Look at what Christ says in the parable:

40 And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

Who are His brothers and sisters?
Us, those that believe Him and do Our Father's will in heaven.

Am I saying that non-believers will go to heaven?
I am saying that they will be judged according to their works and the rest is for God to decide.
I can only say this explicitly because Christ states so explicitly:
Those that blaspheme the HS will perish.

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the person who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

28 I tell you the truth, people will be forgiven for all sins, even all the blasphemies they utter. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin”

As for the rest, I leave it up to God to decide.

I can only state what is written.

Wouldn't not believing in Christ be blasphemy against the HS?

[PaulSacramento]

Paul,

The Olivet Discourse is about Christ's millennial kingdom. It's not meant to be applied to the eternal life of all believers.

How would a first century Jew have seen it Rick?
The parable of the sheep and goats is not one of those "scratch our head" parables.
It is one of Jesus' more clear and explicit statements on the day of Judgment and falls perfectly in line with what He says in John 5.
Again, I have no problem with anyone disagree with my view, just that saying it isn't scriptural when it is explicitly stated in scripture is, well, wrong.

My point is simply this:
Scripture states plainly and explicitly that believers will not be judged ( John 5).
It states that there will be a judgment for those that do good and those that don't ( John 5 and Matthew 25).

Paul,

Your view isn't scriptural because you misinterpret Matthew 25, to back the view.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that believers won't be judged in regards to their eternal life.
You said nonbelievers who do good, will be saved. But the "saved" that you are referring to in Matthew 25, isn't a "saved to everlasting life". It's "saved" in the context of christs millennial kingdom. It's not talking about the eternal life of believers. Saved in scripture can simply mean "delivered". It doesn't always refer to eternal life.

Where did I say that non-believers will be saved?

[RickD]

Paul,

The Olivet Discourse is about Christ's millennial kingdom. It's not meant to be applied to the eternal life of all believers.

How would a first century Jew have seen it Rick?
The parable of the sheep and goats is not one of those "scratch our head" parables.
It is one of Jesus' more clear and explicit statements on the day of Judgment and falls perfectly in line with what He says in John 5.
Again, I have no problem with anyone disagree with my view, just that saying it isn't scriptural when it is explicitly stated in scripture is, well, wrong.

My point is simply this:
Scripture states plainly and explicitly that believers will not be judged ( John 5).
It states that there will be a judgment for those that do good and those that don't ( John 5 and Matthew 25).

Paul,

Your view isn't scriptural because you misinterpret Matthew 25, to back the view.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that believers won't be judged in regards to their eternal life.
You said nonbelievers who do good, will be saved. But the "saved" that you are referring to in Matthew 25, isn't a "saved to everlasting life". It's "saved" in the context of christs millennial kingdom. It's not talking about the eternal life of believers. Saved in scripture can simply mean "delivered". It doesn't always refer to eternal life.

Where did I say that non-believers will be saved?

Here is where you said it:

We also know that, according to Matthew, there will be those that are judged based on what they have done and how they have treated the "brothers and sisters" of Christ.
Those who did good without even knowing they did, will be saved and those that did bad, even not knowing to whom they did it ( though they knew they were NOT doing good), will perish.

"Those who did good without even knowing they did, will be saved..."

[Storyteller]

Like I said before, belief in Christ does NOT save us from death since we all die.
Belief in Christ saves us from Judgment.
Those that do not believe will be resurrected to judgment and those that have done evil will be sent to "hell".
I mean, how else do you read matthew 25's parable of the sheep and goats?
It is clear that those that did good, not knowing they did good to the brothers and sisters of Christ, have been given the kingdom of God:

Assuming then that those who have done evil go to hell, where do those that have done good go, if they don`t believe in Christ?

Unless I`m wrong, what you have posted there suggests you think they will inherit the Kingdom of God.

[PaulSacramento]

Paul?
Are you saying that non believers that do good will get to heaven?
I read the goats and sheep as differentiating between believers and non believers.
If 'good' people are welcomed to God then why believe in Christ at all?

Look at what Christ says in the parable:

40 And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

Who are His brothers and sisters?
Us, those that believe Him and do Our Father's will in heaven.

Am I saying that non-believers will go to heaven?
I am saying that they will be judged according to their works and the rest is for God to decide.
I can only say this explicitly because Christ states so explicitly:
Those that blaspheme the HS will perish.

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the person who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

28 I tell you the truth, people will be forgiven for all sins, even all the blasphemies they utter. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin”

As for the rest, I leave it up to God to decide.

I can only state what is written.

Wouldn't not believing in Christ be blasphemy against the HS?

The depends on WHY one doesn't believe.
Maybe it's me and perhaps it is my experience in dealing with not only skeptics but those that believe in a Jesus that is, well, not scriptural, but I have meet quite a few that do not believe in Jesus because their experience with "christianity" has given them a view of Jesus that is simply not real.
Here is an example:
If your only experience with Christians were of the Westboro Baptist type, would you believe in Christ?

Here is one even more personal:
I deal with people that have left the JW's religion because of that they found to be very serious issues.
Some that leave lose their faith in Christ because of what that organization has done to them and even become atheists ( even militant ones) because of this.
In short, there are people that have lost faith in Christ and have even stopped believing in Christ because ot their experience with people that are supposedly "In Christ".
Now, do I know if these non-believers will be saved?
No, I simply do NOT know.
I leave that up to God to decide since he is far better qualified.

What I do know is what is stated plainly in the bible and it states that:
Believers will not be judged.
Some will be judged according to their works.

So, if believers are NOT judged but some people are it means that those people being judged are non-believers.