Adam has to be real.

[abelcainsbrother]

ACB; the gap theory is borderline idolatry for you, if not there already. In most of your post/talks here, you always bring up Christianity and gap theory. Not Christianity and Jesus. Your focus is not Him and you waste so much time on something that was purposefully not revealed to us. Please take a look at all your previous posts, just skim them. See how you always promote the gap theory and not Jesus (even though I know you love Him). The message of the gospel is the kingdom that is coming, not how everything was created. Please let this go. If you don't want to let go of your beliefs of the gap theory, that's fine (even though I think you've hardened your own heart to see it's folly), but please let go of how important you think it is, and portray it being. Because it doesn't matter at all, and He would rather you focus your energy/time on relaying what we can know about Him.

I'm just trying to help people understand why I believe it.We have different theories and interpretations and so I'm just trying to show why I believe it.The Gap Theory has actually increased my bible knowledge. If somebody was questioning or criticizing your interpretation for your creation view I would think you would try to show why you believe what you do biblically which is all I'm trying to do. These are the kinds of discussions I prefer on here because I learn new things from it even when/if we don't agree. You can learn new things from having these discussions about creationism. Are you saying I should let go of the Gap Theory because you think its idolatry for me? It's got to be biblically refuted first and I don't think it has been despite rejections to it that are anything but biblical reasons. I've pretty much been told to believe man over God's word.I'm just going as close as I can to what God's word says, to me.

ACB?
I think most on here, if not all, know why you believe in the Gap Theory. You tell us often enough

Seriously though, you seem obsessed with this.
Even if you`re right and the Gap Theory is true, it`s pretty much all you talk about. Whatever creation theory we hold is not important, I really don`t think God cares which, if any, we believe in. It`s about Christ, not how it was all created, Christ is the most important thing here.
Being honest here, no one else seems to mention their creation stance as much as you do. Why are you so fixated on it? I understand you`re passionate about it but just imagine how much that passion could achieve if it was directed towards spreading the Gospel, talking about Christ with the passion you have for the Gap Theory.

You're right I do bring it up alot.I don't deny i but these are just the kinds of discussions I prefer on here. Have you noticed that sometimes we go through lulls and not much is going on? I think that is mostly why I do it. But I am trying to spread the gospel more than you realize,it is like a side hobby of mine that I do on the side.And I use different ways to try to reach the lost,whatever works best.Sometimes it is just telling them about Jesus and how salvation is the greatest proof I know of,sometimes it is alittle but of philosophy,sometimes it has to do with creationism,but not always.I'm into Apologetics too,so I am spreading the gospel.

[Storyteller]

Why do you think the majority of todays scholars reject it?
Some people still believe the world is flat, to me the Gap Theory is kinda like that. I can't even really debate it, it just seems too, well, ridiculous. (the theory, not you)

[DBowling]

God created on day 5 sea creatures,and every living creature that moveth,which the waters brought forth abundantly,after their kind.and every winged fowl after his kind:and God saw it was good." God created these but let's go into day 6 and you'll see God MADE animals -"And God MADE the beast of the field after his kind,and cattle after their kind,and everything that creepeth upon the earth after his kind:and God saw it was good.

Genesis 2:2-4 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had MADE;and he rested on the seventh day from all his word which he had MADE.
"And God blessed the seventh day,and sancified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which he CREATED and MADE."
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were CREATED,in the day that the LORD God MADE the EARTH and the HEAVENS."

It is important that we know the difference between created and made to understand Genesis 1 properly.Moses stressed this.

As you demonstrate above God does both create (bara) and make (asah) things during the six creation 'days'.

The difference between 'bara' and 'asah' does nothing to alleviate the direct contradiction between the Gap Theory sequence of events and the sequence of events given in Scripture in Genesis 1.

The Gap theory asserts that sea and air creatures existed before Genesis 1:2.
In Genesis 1 Scripture explicitly states that God created (bara) sea and air creatures after Genesis 1:2.

The Gap Theory asserts that land creatures existed before Genesis 1:2.
In Genesis 1 Scripture explicitly states that God made (asah) land creatures after Genesis 1:2.

So it doesn't matter what definition or significance you apply to 'bara' and 'asah'. According to Genesis 1, God populated the planet with life (using both bara and asah) after Genesis 1:2.
Which directly contradicts the Gap Theory which asserts that God populated the planet with plant and animal life prior to Genesis 1:2.

In Christ

[abelcainsbrother]

God created on day 5 sea creatures,and every living creature that moveth,which the waters brought forth abundantly,after their kind.and every winged fowl after his kind:and God saw it was good." God created these but let's go into day 6 and you'll see God MADE animals -"And God MADE the beast of the field after his kind,and cattle after their kind,and everything that creepeth upon the earth after his kind:and God saw it was good.

Genesis 2:2-4 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had MADE;and he rested on the seventh day from all his word which he had MADE.
"And God blessed the seventh day,and sancified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which he CREATED and MADE."
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were CREATED,in the day that the LORD God MADE the EARTH and the HEAVENS."

It is important that we know the difference between created and made to understand Genesis 1 properly.Moses stressed this.

As you demonstrate above God does both create (bara) and make (asah) things during the six creation 'days'.

The difference between 'bara' and 'asah' does nothing to alleviate the direct contradiction between the Gap Theory sequence of events and the sequence of events given in Scripture in Genesis 1.

The Gap theory asserts that sea and air creatures existed before Genesis 1:2.
In Genesis 1 Scripture explicitly states that God created (bara) sea and air creatures after Genesis 1:2.

The Gap Theory asserts that land creatures existed before Genesis 1:2.
In Genesis 1 Scripture explicitly states that God made (asah) land creatures after Genesis 1:2.

So it doesn't matter what definition or significance you apply to 'bara' and 'asah'. According to Genesis 1, God populated the planet with life (using both bara and asah) after Genesis 1:2.
Which directly contradicts the Gap Theory which asserts that God populated the planet with plant and animal life prior to Genesis 1:2.

In Christ

I want to continue to engage with you. But maybe I should'nt the way people react. I like these kinds of discussions but it seems to bother others. But How can you say that if God both created and made life it does'nt show that God had already created life before? It is part of the evidence for Gap creationism.

When you understand the difference between "bara" and "asah" and you read Genesis 1 you will get a different interpretation.You might think God created everything in the 6 days when he only really made in the 6 days except for certian animals,if you don't know the difference. This is very important if you believe the bible tells us a former world perished because this evidence confirms God had already created life for the former world that perished.

This "bara" and "asah" stuff is just part of the biblical evidence. You reject a former world and so you cannot go back before Genesis 1:2 but "bara" and "asah" is pointing you to the life in the former world God created for it.

[abelcainsbrother]

Why do you think the majority of todays scholars reject it?
Some people still believe the world is flat, to me the Gap Theory is kinda like that. I can't even really debate it, it just seems too, well, ridiculous. (the theory, not you)

I'll tell you why I do not believe modern bible scholars are right when they reject the Gap Theory. It is because you can't tell me that since about the 1970's when most bible scholars were Gap theorists that since then all of these new bible scholars suddenly understand the bible more or better than bible scholars in the past.

I don't buy it and alot of times when I see people refute Gap creationism I can tell that they don't know enough about it to refute it,yet they say things that don't even apply to Gap creationism,acting like they refuted it. So I am use to seeing people refute it,yet they are not understanding it to refute it.It is a form of slander most of the time I've heard people refute it.

I would have no problem if they realistically explained why it is wrong biblically,but it is rare when the Gap theory gets honest bible critiques.

[DBowling]

God created on day 5 sea creatures,and every living creature that moveth,which the waters brought forth abundantly,after their kind.and every winged fowl after his kind:and God saw it was good." God created these but let's go into day 6 and you'll see God MADE animals -"And God MADE the beast of the field after his kind,and cattle after their kind,and everything that creepeth upon the earth after his kind:and God saw it was good.

Genesis 2:2-4 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had MADE;and he rested on the seventh day from all his word which he had MADE.
"And God blessed the seventh day,and sancified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which he CREATED and MADE."
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were CREATED,in the day that the LORD God MADE the EARTH and the HEAVENS."

It is important that we know the difference between created and made to understand Genesis 1 properly.Moses stressed this.

As you demonstrate above God does both create (bara) and make (asah) things during the six creation 'days'.

The difference between 'bara' and 'asah' does nothing to alleviate the direct contradiction between the Gap Theory sequence of events and the sequence of events given in Scripture in Genesis 1.

The Gap theory asserts that sea and air creatures existed before Genesis 1:2.
In Genesis 1 Scripture explicitly states that God created (bara) sea and air creatures after Genesis 1:2.

The Gap Theory asserts that land creatures existed before Genesis 1:2.
In Genesis 1 Scripture explicitly states that God made (asah) land creatures after Genesis 1:2.

So it doesn't matter what definition or significance you apply to 'bara' and 'asah'. According to Genesis 1, God populated the planet with life (using both bara and asah) after Genesis 1:2.
Which directly contradicts the Gap Theory which asserts that God populated the planet with plant and animal life prior to Genesis 1:2.

In Christ

But How can you say that if God both created and made life it does'nt show that God had already created life before?

Very easily...
There is nothing in the words create (bara) or made (asah) that demands (or even implies) that the item being made or created had been made or created previously.
That is an extrascriptural presumption that is being imposed on the text.

Scripture says that the heavens and earth were both created (bara) and made (asah) by God.
That in no way logically implies that God had created/made the heavens and earth before Genesis 1:1 and then destroyed them and created them again in Genesis 1:1.

In Genesis 1:26-27 human imagebearers of God are both created (bara) and made (asah) by God.
That in no way logically implies that God had previously created/made human imagebearers and then destroyed them all prior to mankind's creation in Genesis 1:26-27.

As we see above, the Gap Theory imposes a number of extraScriptural presumptions upon the Scriptural text. And in the case of Genesis 1, the Gap Theory comes into direct conflict with the Scriptural sequence of events explicitly laid out in Genesis 1.

You have mentioned a number of times that your desire is to submit to the authority of Scripture over the authority of the traditions of men.

I share that desire. Which is why I am compelled to dismiss a human tradition that was invented in the 1800s when it comes into direct conflict with the explicit teaching of Scripture.

In Christ

[abelcainsbrother]

God created on day 5 sea creatures,and every living creature that moveth,which the waters brought forth abundantly,after their kind.and every winged fowl after his kind:and God saw it was good." God created these but let's go into day 6 and you'll see God MADE animals -"And God MADE the beast of the field after his kind,and cattle after their kind,and everything that creepeth upon the earth after his kind:and God saw it was good.

Genesis 2:2-4 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had MADE;and he rested on the seventh day from all his word which he had MADE.
"And God blessed the seventh day,and sancified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which he CREATED and MADE."
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were CREATED,in the day that the LORD God MADE the EARTH and the HEAVENS."

It is important that we know the difference between created and made to understand Genesis 1 properly.Moses stressed this.

As you demonstrate above God does both create (bara) and make (asah) things during the six creation 'days'.

The difference between 'bara' and 'asah' does nothing to alleviate the direct contradiction between the Gap Theory sequence of events and the sequence of events given in Scripture in Genesis 1.

The Gap theory asserts that sea and air creatures existed before Genesis 1:2.
In Genesis 1 Scripture explicitly states that God created (bara) sea and air creatures after Genesis 1:2.

The Gap Theory asserts that land creatures existed before Genesis 1:2.
In Genesis 1 Scripture explicitly states that God made (asah) land creatures after Genesis 1:2.

So it doesn't matter what definition or significance you apply to 'bara' and 'asah'. According to Genesis 1, God populated the planet with life (using both bara and asah) after Genesis 1:2.
Which directly contradicts the Gap Theory which asserts that God populated the planet with plant and animal life prior to Genesis 1:2.

In Christ

But How can you say that if God both created and made life it does'nt show that God had already created life before?

Very easily...
There is nothing in the words create (bara) or made (asah) that demands (or even implies) that the item being made or created had been made or created previously.
That is an extrascriptural presumption that is being imposed on the text.

Scripture says that the heavens and earth were both created (bara) and made (asah) by God.
That in no way logically implies that God had created/made the heavens and earth before Genesis 1:1 and then destroyed them and created them again in Genesis 1:1.

In Genesis 1:26-27 human imagebearers of God are both created (bara) and made (asah) by God.
That in no way logically implies that God had previously created/made human imagebearers and then destroyed them all prior to mankind's creation in Genesis 1:26-27.

As we see above, the Gap Theory imposes a number of extraScriptural presumptions upon the Scriptural text. And in the case of Genesis 1, the Gap Theory comes into direct conflict with the Scriptural sequence of events explicitly laid out in Genesis 1.

You have mentioned a number of times that your desire is to submit to the authority of Scripture over the authority of the traditions of men.

I share that desire. Which is why I am compelled to dismiss a human tradition that was invented in the 1800s when it comes into direct conflict with the explicit teaching of Scripture.

In Christ

Are you angry or frustrated? Because if you are I don't wanr to further frustrate you.I want to know that you are OK with discussing this further if not then I don't want to go on. I believe I can show why you are wrong about "bara" and "asah" but I don't want to go on if you are not in the right frame of mind. I'm not frustrated eventhough we disagree about this. I can agree to disagree.

[DBowling]

Are you angry or frustrated? Because if you are I don't wanr to further frustrate you.I want to know that you are OK with discussing this further if not then I don't want to go on. I believe I can show why you are wrong about "bara" and "asah" but I don't want to go on if you are not in the right frame of mind. I'm not frustrated eventhough we disagree about this. I can agree to disagree.

Nope... I'm not angry or frustrated

Here's an idea...

If you create a thread about the Gap Theory I will be more than happy to interact with you in that thread as time permits.
That way the board can have an ongoing discussion focused on the Gap Theory without interjecting the topic into threads that are focused on different topics.

Does that work for you?

[Storyteller]

Please say yes, this is interesting stuff. Have just looked at wikipedia.

[Storyteller]

just realised there is a gap theory thread!

[RickD]

Here DBowling.

Your Gap Theory thread:
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 69#p191269

[abelcainsbrother]

Are you angry or frustrated? Because if you are I don't wanr to further frustrate you.I want to know that you are OK with discussing this further if not then I don't want to go on. I believe I can show why you are wrong about "bara" and "asah" but I don't want to go on if you are not in the right frame of mind. I'm not frustrated eventhough we disagree about this. I can agree to disagree.

Nope... I'm not angry or frustrated

Here's an idea...

If you create a thread about the Gap Theory I will be more than happy to interact with you in that thread as time permits.
That way the board can have an ongoing discussion focused on the Gap Theory without interjecting the topic into threads that are focused on different topics.

Does that work for you?

Sorry Rick. I did try to steer it back on track but it did'nt seem to work.But I tried to bring it back around to Adam.

[RickD]

Are you angry or frustrated? Because if you are I don't wanr to further frustrate you.I want to know that you are OK with discussing this further if not then I don't want to go on. I believe I can show why you are wrong about "bara" and "asah" but I don't want to go on if you are not in the right frame of mind. I'm not frustrated eventhough we disagree about this. I can agree to disagree.

Nope... I'm not angry or frustrated

Here's an idea...

If you create a thread about the Gap Theory I will be more than happy to interact with you in that thread as time permits.
That way the board can have an ongoing discussion focused on the Gap Theory without interjecting the topic into threads that are focused on different topics.

Does that work for you?

Sorry Rick. I did try to steer it back on track but it did'nt seem to work.But I tried to bring it back around to Adam.

No problem ACB. Sometimes topics go a little awry. No biggie.

[Mallz]

ACB:

I'm just trying to help people understand why I believe it.We have different theories and interpretations and so I'm just trying to show why I believe it.The Gap Theory has actually increased my bible knowledge. If somebody was questioning or criticizing your interpretation for your creation view I would think you would try to show why you believe what you do biblically which is all I'm trying to do. These are the kinds of discussions I prefer on here because I learn new things from it even when/if we don't agree. You can learn new things from having these discussions about creationism. Are you saying I should let go of the Gap Theory because you think its idolatry for me? It's got to be biblically refuted first and I don't think it has been despite rejections to it that are anything but biblical reasons. I've pretty much been told to believe man over God's word.I'm just going as close as I can to what God's word says, to me.

Been gone, long week. Sorry for the lack of response after being abrasive.

I get you want to have people understand your views. The problem I see is your fixation on the gap theory, ST nailed it. It is an obsession, one that we see if you don't. Your time is so focused on something that doesn't matter. You'll gain nothing in this life and the next by exhausting so much into a creation stance (and lose out on so much by passing up other knowledge/wisdom you could be gaining from the HS). Fixating on it, does turn people away, however (fixating on anything besides Jesus is God who is our Messiah and King, and His kingdom is coming, is wrong/wasteful). I would like to see you let go of the gap theory, because I don't know if you're able to stop obsessing over it? Stop talking about the gap theory especially when talking to others about Christ. Don't even mention it. Don't mention it unless your asked about your creation stance, or the conversation leads into it. And even then, don't put such the emphasis on it that I see you do. Most your conversations the gap theory is a main point/emphasis. I don't get why? Why do you care so much? Again, it's just wasted effort, and it's not what He tells us we should spend our time doing.

And I think there is a problem that you hold onto it with such vigor. You are a man, you know? How can you trust yourself to believe yourself over God? It's you, the bible, and the HS. No one can listen to Him clearly, which is why we have a body of Christ to build each other up, and scriptures for learning. Why do you think, you as a man, or any other man who believes in the gap theory, is anything other than a man trying to discern truth?

[abelcainsbrother]

ACB:

I'm just trying to help people understand why I believe it.We have different theories and interpretations and so I'm just trying to show why I believe it.The Gap Theory has actually increased my bible knowledge. If somebody was questioning or criticizing your interpretation for your creation view I would think you would try to show why you believe what you do biblically which is all I'm trying to do. These are the kinds of discussions I prefer on here because I learn new things from it even when/if we don't agree. You can learn new things from having these discussions about creationism. Are you saying I should let go of the Gap Theory because you think its idolatry for me? It's got to be biblically refuted first and I don't think it has been despite rejections to it that are anything but biblical reasons. I've pretty much been told to believe man over God's word.I'm just going as close as I can to what God's word says, to me.

Been gone, long week. Sorry for the lack of response after being abrasive.

I get you want to have people understand your views. The problem I see is your fixation on the gap theory, ST nailed it. It is an obsession, one that we see if you don't. Your time is so focused on something that doesn't matter. You'll gain nothing in this life and the next by exhausting so much into a creation stance (and lose out on so much by passing up other knowledge/wisdom you could be gaining from the HS). Fixating on it, does turn people away, however (fixating on anything besides Jesus is God who is our Messiah and King, and His kingdom is coming, is wrong/wasteful). I would like to see you let go of the gap theory, because I don't know if you're able to stop obsessing over it? Stop talking about the gap theory especially when talking to others about Christ. Don't even mention it. Don't mention it unless your asked about your creation stance, or the conversation leads into it. And even then, don't put such the emphasis on it that I see you do. Most your conversations the gap theory is a main point/emphasis. I don't get why? Why do you care so much? Again, it's just wasted effort, and it's not what He tells us we should spend our time doing.

And I think there is a problem that you hold onto it with such vigor. You are a man, you know? How can you trust yourself to believe yourself over God? It's you, the bible, and the HS. No one can listen to Him clearly, which is why we have a body of Christ to build each other up, and scriptures for learning. Why do you think, you as a man, or any other man who believes in the gap theory, is anything other than a man trying to discern truth?

Sorry but before I drop the Gap Theory it is going to have to be biblically refuted and it never has been despite people rejecting it.I realize you see it as an obsession but I just believe it is true biblically and I'm tired of seeing people reject it for non-biblical reasons and even changing the meaning of words and rewriting history in some cases to reject it.It is dishonesty.

This is God's word we are talking about and I reject this idea creationism is'nt really important. If Gap Theory creationism is true biblically?It should be accepted instead of rejected for non-biblical reasons. If we don't understand God's word properly even when it comes to creation then we won't understand other parts of the bible. The word of God is like a big jigsaw puzzle and the more we put the pieces of the puzzle together the more we see. I believe this is from God and so it is important to understand.

It seems to me you are rejecting it for non-biblical reasons instead of honestly and truthfully looking into it to make sure.I believe alot of scientific minded people have been driven away from God's word and the gospel because this creationism was not taught and was rejected for more popular creation interpretations and theories when had this been taught we would not have so many people decieved away from God's word and the gospel.Scientific minded people think the bible is totally wrong when it comes to science and just skimming over this problem will not make it go away. I don't see how you can say this does'nt matter. It does matter that we believe the truth of God's word even when it comes to creationism,it is not a salvation issue but a biblical truth issue.

All I'm getting back is people judging me because of my creation stance and that is not a reason to reject this. I don't judge others for their creation stance eventhough I might think they are wrong according to God's word.

Here is an example of the lengths some will go to in order to reject it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThORe07rA-g&app=desktop