Aware 2 1% done as of October 15th 2015

[bippy123]

Guys this is extremely interesting news .
You guys already know about the aware study which I mentioned before .

Well doctor Sam parnia the agnostic and his team of nde scientists have already started the aware 2 study and are 1% done . This time all patients will have digital signs posted strategically on their ceilings and it looks like , if I'm correct , only patients who will experience veridical ndes will be accepted (I could be wrong , it could be all types of ndes .now if they get the 3 to 5 hits I'm expecting this will be a game changer when it's complete .

This is a site that will be following the progress of aware 2

http://awareofaware.co/welcome/blog/

[bippy123]

From a blog post there :

1% recruited so far for the AWARE II study

Peter sent me an email, which I confess seemed a little gloomy and frustrated since he had looked at the latest status of the AWARE II study and learned that they had only recruited 1% of the patients that they intended to. He then asked me for my predictions for the outcome of this second version of the study.

Firstly, I have two reasons to not be quite so gloomy as Peter.

From my own experience with clinicaltrials.gov, which is the US equivalent of the website that the AWARE study has its details, updates are usually very out of date. For instance studies will often be closed and collecting results before the website reflects that status. So it is entirely possible that more than 1% (which would be about 15 patients) have so far been recruited into the study.
Even if it has taken 3 months to recruit 15 patients, I see that as a positive sign as it may mean that the investigators are being very narrow in their interpretation of the inclusion criteria. In my view they should only include patients who could possibly have had an NDE and who were in a room with the portable LCD monitor displaying random images.
As I have said before, in the first AWARE study, patients were included who were not even in rooms with the cards facing the ceiling. This defeats the purpose of the study in my view, so hopefully the reason that we are seeing them struggle with recruitment is that they are selecting patients in a more rational way.

My predictions for the outcome of this study are outlined in my book AWARE of AWARE, in which I discuss the original study, and predict only a couple of confirmed OBEs. I based this assumption (incorrectly), that only patients who survived a cardiac arrest, and were interviewed, and were in rooms with the cards, would be included in the analysis. If the AWARE II study follows this approach, and they recruit 1500 patients, all of whom had CAs and were resuscitated with the screen present AND were able to give an interview afterwards, then I would predict that only a couple would confirm their NDE by stating what was on the screen, this is based on the fact that only 10% of people who die and are resuscitated recall an NDE, of those maybe 25% have an OBE. Of those I would expect maybe 10% to notice the screen…that makes 3-4 patients. I must stress though, that this is only if the inclusion criteria are as strict as I outline and if they stick to this criteria.

[abelcainsbrother]

Thanks bippy,I have been wondering about the AWARE 2 study on NDE"s by Dr Sam Parnia but I had'nt heard anything,so thanks for the info.

[winningedge101]

What is this?

[abelcainsbrother]

What is this?

This is the 2nd research project into near death experiences.
Here is a link you might want to check out and read through about the first AWARE study into near death experiences and near death experiences themselves.
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =6&t=39762

[Disciplical]

I'm still not entirely sure how NDEs fit into Christian world views. Can someone give me a run down?

[abelcainsbrother]

I'm still not entirely sure how NDEs fit into Christian world views. Can someone give me a run down?

Near death experiences do not necessarily prove Christianity is true, but if near death experiences are real? They show that there is life after death and that we have a soul that leaves our body after we die. This would do serious damage to naturalism/materialism that believes we are just random atoms and molecules brought together by chance and when we die,that's it,there is no soul,mind,spirit,etc to man. Near Death experiences show we do have a soul and there is life after death. Have you ever heard atheists/sceptics claim when we die,that's it,nothing more?

[bippy123]

Exactly Abel , but there are some elements of ndes that correspond with the bible .
When doctor Jeffrey long did his very extensive global nde commonality research he found 9 features that were experienced by a majority of nders across the globe no matter whether they had heard of God or not regardless of their religious beliefs .

1 of the major finds is that a majority of them saw either a being of light or an orb of light and instantly they knew that this light was the creator of all reality .
Not only this but the light gave off a level of live that words in this reality couldn't do justice to.

What does the bible say about God ?
That he is light and that in him can be no darkness
And God is love itself

Most people look at the actual nde studies of parnia and lommel but many forget about doctor longs extensive global nde research

[bippy123]

Here is a short overview video of doctor longs findings from his research

http://youtu.be/h-Xq_qBz92s

[EssentialSacrifice]

very cool bip, Dr. long is one of those guys who you can tell in a no *bs* kinda man. He hasn't just made a move towards NDE's ... he's now a part of it and the medical community, his community will be slow in coming and slower yet in affirmation. His career just got harder because of his commitment to the NDE experience. most impressive.

nine lines of evidence for life after death... there's a few cats around could talk on this subject bip.

[bippy123]

Yea nessa , and the best part is that he's a non believer , but now atheists can't accuse him of being a Christian either .

He is simply following the evidence .

The problem here becomes bad for atheists .

When I debate them on this on facebook, I begin my challenge with a question .

1. Why do you atheists place such importance on the scientific consensus from the experts in their field as far as helping you form your worldview ?

Most are timid about answering it but usually I'll get one to bite .after someone answers they will usually say that science is the best way to determine reality .

Then I will announce to the thread that I'm happy to welcome these atheists into belief in the soul , afterlife and to a lesser extent God
And I then explain that 99% of nde scientists believe that Ndes lead to all these .

It's gotten so bad that I have one atheist following me and warning them not to answer my question lol

[bippy123]

This is s conversation I had with one of the few atheists that actually looked at the evidence honestly .

Bill :Hello how are you

Me :I'm ok just trying to get by, so have u had time to look through the nde literature bill?

Bill:Yes I did and I have to admit that you've opened my eyes to the possibility of a soul. It's. Its not something I totally accept as I'm not one to just jump into a new belief just like that but it's something I've been thinking about

Me :Awesome bill, and it's even more awesome that you just don't believe new things without lots of seeking and studying and researching . We are more alike than we admit cause I'm the same way

Me:Also bill I would suggest looking into a. More rare nde called the peak in Darien nde


Bill :I will look into that. Thank you


But most will usually turn hostile . I was called the most annoying Mosquitos they have ever seen lol

[bippy123]

Sort of off topic are an even more powerful evidence from the afterlife are peak in Darien ndes
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/t ... sions.html
a. Visions of the Dying Who Are Greeted By People Unknown To Them To Be Dead
There are instances where the dying person is unaware of the previous death of a loved one, and is therefore astonished to find on their deathbed a vision of that deceased loved one whom the dying person believes to be still alive. These cases are, perhaps, one of the most convincing arguments for survival after death, as the accuracy of these deathbed visions are greatly enhanced when the fact is undeniably established that the dying person was completely ignorant of the death of the person they so vividly see. Such deathbed visions are also known as "Peak in Darien" experiences after a book by that name published in 1882 by Frances Power Cobbe (1822-1904) an Irish writer, social reformer and leading suffragette. The title of her book, "Peak in Darien" and the name of "Peak in Darien" deathbed visions, are taken from a poem entitled On First Looking into Chapman's Homer by the English romantic poet, John Keats (1795-1821), who referred to the shock of the Spaniards, who, after sailing the Atlantic Ocean and scaling a peak in Darien (in what is now the Panama Canal), expected to see a continent but were awestruck when confronted instead with another ocean - the Pacific Ocean. People on their deathbeds are similarly awestruck when they meet a recently deceased person of whose death neither they nor anyone around them had any knowledge. Such "Peak in Darien" deathbed visions exclude the possibility of the vision being a hallucination related to the experiencer's expectations. Frances Cobbe describes this phenomenon as follows:
"The dying person is lying quietly, when suddenly, in the very act of expiring, he looks up - sometimes starts up in bed - and gazes on (what appears to be) vacancy, with an expression of astonishment, sometimes developing instantly into joy, and sometimes cut short in the first emotion of solemn wonder and awe. If the dying man were to see some utterly - unexpected but instantly recognized vision, causing him a great surprise, or rapturous joy, his face could not better reveal the fact. The very instant this phenomenon occurs, death is actually taking place, and the eyes glaze even while they gaze at the unknown sight."
Another "Peak in Darien" deathbed vision example comes from Frances Cobbe documents is an incident of a very striking nature:
"A dying lady, exhibiting the aspect of joyful surprise, spoke of seeing, one after another, three of her brothers who had been long dead, and then apparently recognized last of all a fourth brother, who was believed by the bystanders to be still living in India. The coupling of his name with that of his dead brothers excited such awe and horror in the mind of one of the persons present that she rushed from the room. In due course of time letters were received announcing the death of the brother in India, which had occurred some time before his dying sister seemed to recognize him."
Sir William F. Barrett (1844-1925), an English physicist and parapsychologist, documented a "Peak in Darien" deathbed case in Chapter 2 of his book entitled Death-Bed Visions: The Psychical Experiences of the Dying. This case is a well authenticated one and comes from the distinguished doctor of divinity and Unitarian minister, Dr. Minot J. Savage (1841-1918), with whom Barrett was acquainted. Dr. Savage recorded the following case in one of his books entitled Psychical Research and the Resurrection and was confirmed by Barrett as follows:
"Dr. Savage told me personally of the facts and gave me the names and addresses of the persons on whose authority he tells the incidents."
Dr. Savage narrates, as follows:
"In a neighboring city were two little girls, Jennie and Edith, one about eight years of age and the other but a little older. They were schoolmates and intimate friends. In June, 1889, both were taken ill of diphtheria. At noon on Wednesday Jennie died. Then the parents of Edith, and her physician as well, took particular pains to keep from her the fact that her little playmate was gone. They feared the effect of the knowledge on her own condition. To prove that they succeeded and that she did not know, it may be mentioned that on Saturday, June 8th, at noon, just before she became unconscious of all that was passing about her, she selected two of her photographs to be sent to Jennie, and also told her attendants to bid her good-bye. She died at half-past six o'clock on the evening of Saturday, June 8th. She had roused and bidden her friends good-bye, and was talking of dying, and seemed to have no fear. She appeared to see one and another of the friends she knew were dead. So far it was like other similar cases. But now suddenly, and with every appearance of surprise, she turned to her father and exclaimed:
"Why, papa, I am going to take Jennie with me!" Then she added, "Why, papa! you did not tell me that Jennie was here!"
And immediately she reached out her arms as if in welcome, and said:
"Oh, Jennie, I'm so glad you are here!'"
Another "Peak in Darien" deathbed vision was documented by the pioneering parapsychology researchers Edmund Gurney and Frederic W.H. Myers who described the case of John Alkin Ogle, who, an hour before he died, saw his brother who had died 16 years earlier, calling him by name. Ogle then called out in surprise, “George Hanley!,” which was the name of a casual acquaintance in a village 40 miles away, before expiring. His mother, who was visiting from Hanley’s village, then confirmed that Hanley had died 10 days earlier, a fact that no one else in the room had known.

"Peak in Darien" experiences are not limited to deathbed visions as they occur in NDEs as well. In a paper by Dr. Bruce Greyson from the Division of Perceptual Studies at the University of Virginia entitled, Seeing Dead People Not Known to Have Died: Peak in Darien Experiences PDF icon. , Greyson argues that in his collection of 665 NDEs, 138 (21%) included a meeting with a deceased person. Greyson reports in his paper, published in the academic journal "Anthropology and Humanism, many examples, including that of Physician K. M. Dale who related the case of 9-year-old Eddie Cuomo:
"... whose fever finally broke after nearly 36 hours of anxious vigil on the part of his parents and hospital personnel. As soon as he opened his eyes, at 3:00 in the morning, Eddie urgently told his parents that he had been to heaven, where he saw his deceased Grandpa Cuomo, Auntie Rosa, and Uncle Lorenzo. Then Eddie added that he also saw his 19-year-old sister Teresa, who told him he had to go back. His father became agitated, because he had spoken with Teresa, who was attending college in Vermont, just two nights ago. Later that morning, when Eddie’s parents telephoned the college, they learned that Teresa had been killed in an automobile accident just after midnight, and that college officials had tried unsuccessfully to reach the Cuomos at their home to inform them of the tragic news."

[bippy123]

very cool bip, Dr. long is one of those guys who you can tell in a no *bs* kinda man. He hasn't just made a move towards NDE's ... he's now a part of it and the medical community, his community will be slow in coming and slower yet in affirmation. His career just got harder because of his commitment to the NDE experience. most impressive.

nine lines of evidence for life after death... there's a few cats around could talk on this subject bip.

Hey ES, yea I like doctor longs research as he came to it originally from a skeptical but honest view and he eventually came to believe in ndes being strong evidence for the afterlife . His commitment to Nde research is 100% and I believe 20 to 40 years from now college kids will be learning about him from their professors , as that is probably how long it will take to break the materialistic paradigm we are in. I believe the evidence will only get stronger as they refine protocols .

Remember that theoretical physicist sir Roger penrose already believed in the soul and afterlife even though he's an atheist ,him and Stuart hameroff have already collaborated on the micro tubules theory in an attempt to prove the soul and afterlife exist but they are trying to establish their existence without God. In other words they are trying to prove them in a way that would make them more easily swallowed by their fellow atheists .

Stuart hameroff was absolutely hammered by his fellow atheists at the beyond belief convention when he spoke and I believe the reason for this is because if his fellow atheists except the soul and afterlife they will then be forced to concede that the bible predicted the reality ifvthecsoul and afterlife thousands of years before

Can we say rock in a hard place

I believe there is also a peer reviewed journal specifically for ndes .

[bippy123]

Here is Stuart at the convention going at it with Lawrence krauss.
Krauss is his usual condescending , arrogant self but Stuart not only stood his ground but hammered back with evidence.

It's interesting to see a spiritual atheist debate a non spiritual atheist

http://youtu.be/kmdJtSwH9O4

This went straight over my head .
Anyone here with a physics background to translate for us