Nonbelievers, what do you hope will come of discussing Christianity (on this board)?

[RickD]

Sorry Nessa, you're too slow. I quoted you before you edited your post. You really need to check to see before you submit your edited post.

[Philip]

I tried to listen to the song, but my iPhone won't play it. But maybe it's because I have the "drippy country song" filter on.

Hey, where can I get one of those?

[RickD]

I tried to listen to the song, but my iPhone won't play it. But maybe it's because I have the "drippy country song" filter on.

Hey, where can I get one of those?

Believe me, it's not worth the llama I traded for it money I paid. It works sometimes, but it failed, and let this through.

When I played it, my dog almost died.

[Philip]

When I played it, my dog almost died.

Sounds like a country song lyric to me! What, did someone run over it with a pickup truck?

[Kenny]

I agree with you so far. If you are not personally convinced the arguments for Christianity are good enough, there's no reason you should share those beliefs.

Thank you. Happy to see we agree on something

I get the impression, though, from your discussions on this board that you're implicitly arguing that Christians should be Agnostics -- i.e. that they ought to claim that they don't know anything when it comes to matters such as the Bible. If so, that would be a positive argument, and I'm curious what your reasoning for that might be.

I’ve got a feeling you’ve mistaken me for someone else. If I had a penny for every time a theist told me I were an agnostic, or something other than atheist because I do not fit into the convenient agenda box they decided all atheists are supposed to fit into….. well let’s just say I would have lots of pennies. Because this has happened to me countless times, I am the last person to try and do this to someone else; I am not the type of person to tell someone else they are anything other than what they claim to be.

For other nonbelievers, I'm curious what you're seeking. I'm half-wondering if most here aren't just trying to better explain why they don't believe -- which is perfectly valid, as Christians tend to evangelize, but would be good to know.

There are people on this forum I enjoy talking to. Yes; I do have interest in the various ways people believe, and I find that quite interesting; but I also believe when people get a chance to interact with those they disagree with, a lot of the misconception get cleared up. I was surprised at how many people believed that because I have no religious faith, I had no reason (other than the law) to refrain from committing every atrocity imaginable. Yeah I’ve heard people say this, but I just assumed they were just being melodramatic; but as absurd as this sounds, there are actually people who believe this way. Though there are a few people on this board who hate me, there are some who I get along with quite well and we’ve had some very constructive conversations. I made no attempt to change their minds on religion (not that I could even if I tried), but they will tell you; even though we disagree, we’ve had some very good discussions.

As a general rule, I like having my beliefs challenged; that’s the only way you can grow. Not just religious beliefs, but political, Philosophical, moral, whatever it is that I believe, I like discussing with those who disagree with me. For a political conservative person to only look at Fox News and refuse to look at Progressive stations like MSNBC, he is doing himself a disservice. For the Progressive person to only look at MSNBC and refuse to look at conservative stations like Fox News, he is doing himself a disservice. To “coddle” yourself by surrounding yourself with those who agree with you will prevent you from growing so when you get out into the real world, away from your friends, the minute your beliefs are challenged you will be ill prepared, and your arguments will fall apart like a house of cards, because the only thing you will know about your opponent will be what your coddling friends tell you; which will probably be far from the truth.

I have a feeling there are others who also like having their beliefs challenged as well. I’ve had people tell me that as a result of our discussions their faith has been strengthened.
So to answer your question; “why am I here?” For the sake of discussion; and though I do have my share of “haters” there are people on this forum I enjoy talking to.

Ken

[Nessa]

Sorry Nessa, you're too slow. I quoted you before you edited your post. You really need to check to see before you submit your edited post.

Dam you're fast
I wasnt slow

[Audie]

I have myself often wondered about the incredible number of posts - which for some, are in the many hundreds - unbelievers spend here debating the belief of Christians, in a God they don't believe exists. Why the obsession and need to relentlessly spar over something one thinks is non-existent? Really, it's the equavalent of me believing in no God or gods, but spending vast quantities of time attempting to refute belief in Zeus, or whatever. I mean, if I'm an agnostic or atheist, and you want to believe in Zeus, and that belief is not harming yourself or others - well, by all means, have your fun fantasies celebrating Lord Zeus with others, if that makes you happy. Go celebrate, even worship that unseen, unheard deity - why should that matter to me. One man's god is another one's dog - actually, they may even be the same (to some). Why would I be obseessed with refuting belief in a God who brings His believers such joy, confidence, and sense of purpose? Good for them! Why should I care, unless that belief were harming me or others?

But, I don't believe that the unbelievers here relentlessly post because they think it important to refute belief in Christ, or that they believe that to be any more harmful than belief in any other supposed deity. I think the unbelievers obseessively debate here because they realize that if THE are WRONG, if the Bible is TRUE, that they are in terrible danger and headed for a horrific fate. And so, they relentlessly debate - NOT to convince the Christians here - but to convince THEMSELVES that they have the superior argument, and thus, themselves, have absolutely nothing to fear or worry about. It's bad enough to have no hope in anything but dumb luck, but far worse to think that they could ever be wrong about Christ and eternity. So, it is hugely important to such people to have confidence that they are correct, that there is no Jesus, no eternal judgment, no God to revere. And thus the unbelievers' relentless postings.

I would also argue, as Romans 1 makes clear, that God has made His existence "clear" to ALL people. BUT that in wanting instead to follow their own desires and rules, they have so long suppressed knowledge of God that they have mostly convinced themselves that He does not exist. I do believe, in most such people, there is still a remnant knowledge, perhaps now only operating with the faintest doubt, that the knowledge of God's existence they have so long deliberately suppressed, might have at least a slight possibly of being true. And so, to snuff out even the remotest of possibility of worry that they might be wrong, and to also maintain self confidence that they MUST be right, they continually debate their position's views. Any unbeliever here, even briefly, knows that if they are wrong that they are in grave eternal danger.

I also hope that the unbelievers here also realize the believers here desperately are trying to have them accept the solution to this danger: Jesus! He is the ONLY freedom and peace they can ever truly have. But, they must want it before they can recieve it.

Why the obsession? The relentless-relentless sparring?

Only 3 possibilitie: (atheists are not fundys who only do binary)
-Communists
-Morally weak
-Simply insane

[Kurieuo]

What do you believe best describes you: Atheist or Agnostic ?

K, surely you realize those two answer options are insufficient for a non-binary thinker?

Yes K. Please stop being obtuse.

Hmmm, are you sure you got the right k?
Usually it's kenny you describe as obtuse

Listen Ms. Smartypants,

I'll call anyone obtuse, who is being obtuse. Except you. I try not to upset premenopausal women. That's just asking for trouble.

So, as Kenny can clearly see, he's not the only one who can be obtuse. It's nothing personal against him. Believe it or not, I actually like Kenny. Even though we get on each other's nerves, I wish him the best. But as for K, he should know better. He needs to pay more attention to what Audie is saying. All women want, is for men to listen to them. My wife was telling me that for the millionth time last night. She told me some other stuff too, but I don't know what she said, because I wasn't listening.

Oh, next thing I'll probably be finding myself banned for obtuseness huh Rick?!?
I'll be giving a warning not to be obtuse though right, or does the above count as a warning?
Just wanting to avoid receiving a two week vacation from the board.

As for Audie, I actually believe she is Theist.
But, I left that option out because I didn't want her to dig in further against the thought.
You know, that "gay" homophohic or Christophobic logic and all.

[Audie]

I'm not sure I've asked Audie. Or perhaps I did and it was left a bit in the air, or I forget.

What do you believe best describes you: Atheist or Agnostic ?

I dont look at it the way you do. I am not a negative something defined on terms of degrees of
accepting your belief.

Im just me, a normal person. You are afflicted with godism. Im no more an "atheist"
than you are an achickenpoxist or an agschistosomiasisist

[Nessa]

Oh, next thing I'll probably be finding myself banned for obtuseness huh Rick?!?
I'll be giving a warning not to be obtuse though right, or does the above count as a warning?
Just wanting to avoid receiving a two week vacation from the board.

It warms my heart to see such addictive behaviour loyalty and dedication to this board that you would not want to deprive us of your posts - your thoughtful consideration of our feelings is much appreciated

[Audie]

If you're not a good listener (few men are), at the very least, you must master the art of APPEARING to be intently listening, occasionally nodding and smiling,while also praying she doesn't later give you a pop quiz on what she said. This usually works. Oh, and try hard to keep both eyes open in the process. For the ladies here, please keep these tried and true tips to yourself, no reason to cause any trouble.

Pretend to be japanese, and say "Hai!" at intervals, and toss in " ah so desu ka" now and then. Keep eyes open.

[RickD]

Kurieuo wrote:

Oh, next thing I'll probably be finding myself banned for obtuseness huh Rick?!?
I'll be giving a warning not to be obtuse though right, or does the above count as a warning?
Just wanting to avoid receiving a two week vacation from the board.

Thanks K. I really don't think we need to bring up discussions on the public board, that we had in the moderator forum. I'd say that's really not appropriate.

But anyways, if you read my reason for Kenny's 2week ban, it wasn't because he was obtuse. Might want to recheck the discussion in the mod forum.

[Nessa]

Kurieuo wrote:

Oh, next thing I'll probably be finding myself banned for obtuseness huh Rick?!?
I'll be giving a warning not to be obtuse though right, or does the above count as a warning?
Just wanting to avoid receiving a two week vacation from the board.

Thanks K. I really don't think we need to bring up discussions on the public board, that we had in the moderator forum. I'd say that's really not appropriate.

But anyways, if you read my reason for Kenny's 2week ban, it wasn't because he was obtuse. Might want to recheck the discussion in the mod forum.

Wouldn't all of us common posters love to be a virtual fly on the 'wall' of that private mod forum
We just have to live in hope some of the mods can be paid off to give us inside information
Kidding!*


*I have already tried

[Kurieuo]

Kurieuo wrote:

Oh, next thing I'll probably be finding myself banned for obtuseness huh Rick?!?
I'll be giving a warning not to be obtuse though right, or does the above count as a warning?
Just wanting to avoid receiving a two week vacation from the board.

Thanks K. I really don't think we need to bring up discussions on the public board, that we had in the moderator forum. I'd say that's really not appropriate.

But anyways, if you read my reason for Kenny's 2week ban, it wasn't because he was obtuse. Might want to recheck the discussion in the mod forum.

I'm learning how to reveal Rick's serious side.

[Kurieuo]

I'm not sure I've asked Audie. Or perhaps I did and it was left a bit in the air, or I forget.

What do you believe best describes you: Atheist or Agnostic ?

I dont look at it the way you do. I am not a negative something defined on terms of degrees of
accepting your belief.

Im just me, a normal person. You are afflicted with godism. Im no more an "atheist"
than you are an achickenpoxist or an agschistosomiasisist

Oh yes, that's right. You assert a Negative Atheism.