Fascinating atheist veridical nde conversion

[bippy123]

Hey guys , I was on facebook being my usual annoying mosquito debating a large group of atheists on ndes when a gentleman named Clayton masterson Apostate posted his veridical nde that converted him to be a believer . He was a militant atheist whose goal was to learn all the arguments and evidences to debunk believers as he thought their beliefs were childish , then this happened to him . I have copied and pasted his post with his permission as this really caught my attention . I'm going to try to invite him into the forum from facebook.

I shared this on another forum and someone asked if I would post it here, it is about my Near Death Experience.

I am a former atheist who if you asked over 5 years ago if there was any chance I would ever believe in God I would have laughed in your face. I was not the atheist who was happy simply not believing in god, I wanted to annihilate the entire conception of god from anyone that still held onto such a intellectually childish belief system. I studied Christian theology and history in college so I could know it better than believers and destroy them with the facts of their own Holy Books. I was also very well versed in all the traditional arguments for the Deistic conception of a first cause, etc and found them all founded upon fundamental flaws in their primary assumptions. I knew all the arguments for theism from a philosophical, anthropological, psychological, historical, and theological basis, and could pretty much eviscerate any theist and had a field day when I could out quote pastors with scripture.


Everything changed dramatically for me over 5 years ago when I was rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery. For some odd reason, scar tissue that had built up from an appendectomy I had 30 years earlier had wrapped itself around my intestines and blocked off all digestion and my stomach acids were eating through my stomach and intestinal wall. I awoke in the middle of the night to find myself looking like I was 9 months pregnant and I started vomiting blood everywhere. I was rushed to the hospital and into surgery. During the surgery I began hemoraging blood and I lost so much blood I technically died for about 7 minutes during the surgery.
This is where things get weird. So as I flat lined I suddenly was aware of "myself" as an awareness looking down upon my body and the doctors trying to bring me back. I could see the extra staff rushing in, and even heard the conversations that were taking place in the attempt to revive me. I did not think anything or feel anything, I was just watching as awareness. I traveled outside of the room and into the waiting area where I saw members of my family talking and then outside into the parking lot where I saw my father sitting alone in the car praying (which he never did, he never once went to church or even believed in God as far as I knew) I was able to report back accurately that these events did indeed take place as I saw them.
Quite abruptly I was pulled out of the room and was pulled through this almost space warp looking tunnel that was alternating with light and darkness and I just kept hearing, "Don't be afraid and just let go" It felt like I was travelling at thousands of miles per hours and when I came to the end of it, I had the most amazing experience of my life.
I was suddenly just engulfed in a radiant light and annihilated by what I can only describe as pure love. The truly interesting thing about it was this Love was not separate from me, it was not something that I observed as outside of me, or experienced as happening to me, it was my very being, but I was still distinct from it. All Duality between subject and object was destroyed and there was just being in the presence and being one with, Love. This to me was the Truth of the Christian formulation of the Trinity, and I later read from a Catholic Mass where the Godhead is described as "Distinction in persons, unity in Essence" and this matches my experience perfectly. From what I could tell is that there is the Father (God) We are the Son of God, and the love that exist between us is the Holy Spirit, but that it is an independent entity in itself. This for me totally resolved the problem between Dualism and Nondualism, it is both, it just depends upon who is doing the seeing. Sort of similar to the Wave/Particular paradox in Physics, it is not an either or dichotomy, it is both.


As I bathed in this annihilating love, the only question I was asked was "Have I loved others the way I have loved you." That was it as far as questions went. The other messages I received was just of how much all of us are loved beyond all measure and all comprehension, and there is nothing we can do in our physical reality to truly separate ourselves from this love. It literally felt like I was there for hours and I truly did not know if I was dead or alive, but I wanted to stay in this love forever, but I was told that it was not my time yet, and that I had to return, and though I pleaded to stay I was told that all would be well in time and I would understand everything in time. I was sent back through the tunnel and I felt myself literally slam back into my body. I woke up during the surgery and sat almost completely upright and saw all my guts hanging out and the doctors flipped and had to restrain me and put me back out.


This incident was also the most real thing I have ever experienced in my life, the reality was so much more vivid than daily life, such that the "real world" seems like a pale imitation of the "real world" which I experienced. If it was a hallucination, I want more of them because it was the most profound experience of my entire life and it totally removed all fear of death from me, and I am absolutely convinced that there is a God, but that God is not some being, judging us, it is our very being, it is what we are.

[bippy123]

Oops I just read it fully but I didn't read it fully . This doesn't jive with scripture . My bad everyone

[bippy123]

I originally posted it for the veridical nde part

[RickD]

I'm glad you noticed Bippy.

This stood out to me:

From what I could tell is that there is the Father (God) We are the Son of God, and the love that exist between us is the Holy Spirit, but that it is an independent entity in itself.

Why not invite him here anyways?

Ought to be interesting, at least.

[bippy123]

I just might do that rick

[Storyteller]

Still a powerful story.

And there is a lot of truth in it, and hope, and passion.
And we are all children of God.

I think theres a lot he could offer here.

[Philip]

Someone has a near-death experience of some "presence of overwhelming love," or of Heaven, and yet they do not reference Jesus - well, I would highly doubt it! If an atheist has a near-death experience of which the point was to make them understand God exists and all about His great love, and yet whatever entity they encounter doesn't identify himself as Jesus - I would assume it to be bogus, perhaps a demonic deception. The one thing I notice in common, with similar deceptive experiences, is they person comes back speaking all about what they feel and experience, describe the more superficial trappings of Heaven, but have nothing to say about Jesus. Wouldn't God identifying Himself be a key reason for a NDE? Also, NO person can enter Heaven who isn't saved - however temporarily. A vision of Heaven - perhaps, yet I'd still be wary.

The one thing I wonder about the whole demonic deception theory is I wonder if Satan has such abilities to deceive in the non-physical realm? Anyone? Thoughts?

[RickD]

The one thing I wonder about the whole demonic deception theory is I wonder if Satan has such abilities to deceive in the non-physical realm? Anyone? Thoughts?

Yes. See B.W.'s book.

He talks about how he believes when people are only dead for a short period of time, they only "see a light", or "feel the love". But when they're dead longer, they start to see the full force of where they are.

Sounds to me like Bippy's friend is either

1) making the whole thing up

Or

2) not a believer, and never was.

[Storyteller]

Or...
has experienced something that has convinced him God is real, and love.
Now maybe we need to introduce him to Christ.

[Philip]

Rick, I agree, IF these experiences are as described, they MUST be demonic deceptions - as that is the only source such an authentic experience could come from. I guess where I'm wondering is the level of the deception - the apparent ability to create an other world reality - at least in the mind of the one experiencing it, that they are seeing some complex reality that doesn't exist. But one thing I know, if someone says they've been to Heaven or Hell and what they describe doesn't make theological or Biblical sense - is contradictory of these - then we know it isn't a God-caused experience, even if it is a God-ALLOWED one.

[Storyteller]

And it still may be the first step towards truth.

The guy believes in God when he didnt! Isnt then, up to us to show him Christ?

Maybe he needs us.

[RickD]

And it still may be the first step towards truth.

The guy believes in God when he didnt! Isnt then, up to us to show him Christ?

Maybe he needs us.

Yes, A-net. You may be right.

[Storyteller]

Just a thought.

[RickD]

Just a thought.

I was thinking along those lines as well, when I told Bippy that he should invite him here anyways.

Sounds like an interesting topic for discussion.

[Storyteller]

Just a thought.

I was thinking along those lines as well, when I told Bippy that he should invite him here anyways.

Sounds like an interesting topic for discussion.

I know, and I love you for it