Evolutionary theory in crisis?

[RickD]

Is not this 1-20 a gish?

Audie,

I have no idea what a gish is. And yes, I googled it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... ish+Gallop

Oh, ok. I've heard you use that before.

The answer is no. It's not. As I mentioned to Neo, in the book, it's data, not predictions. Anyone can see that predictions can't be something that already happened.

[neo-x]

Ah, thanks Neo.

There's definitely something wrong. In the book, those things on the list are among others that Ross lists as a list of data that he used as evidence for his predictions. In other words, they aren't the predictions themselves.

On pages 62-66, Ross lists "Relevant scientific data". And those are in the list. I'm actually going to email RTB to try to clear it up. Not sure if they'll respond.

I think that's a good idea. I unfortunately, had handed my copy of the book to someone else last year, once I had gone through it. So that is why I checked Ross' web page for the same. However on the web page he does say that his model predicts these 20 things.

[abelcainsbrother]

Kenny the ToE is a conspiracy theory,it has all of the very same characteristics that conspiracy theories do,except it is coming from scientists. Like if you don't know about the evidence we have you don't know about it,

Evidence WE have? Who is this “we” you talking about? You got a frog in your pocket, or are there more of you aware of this “conspiracy” that you speak of?

you have to understand the evidence we have and from people who know what they are talking about. Lizard people are real and if you don't believe it you don't understand the evidence we have,you are ignorant about it.
Flat-earth? The same thing.

So lemme see if I’ve got this straight; You guys claim there are “lizard people”, that the Earth is flat, and that the Theory of Evolution is a conspiracy started by scientists.
Humm…. Tell you what; you go ahead and believe all of that if you wish and we will leave it at that.
After all, if nothing else, at least you guys are consistent.

Peace
Ken

Wow! Kenny you actually think I believe in Lizard people and a flat-earth?They are conspiracy theories that have all of the very same characteristics of the ToE,that was the point I was trying to make.

[abelcainsbrother]

Read? You want me to read? Write down your disproof of ToE, that I made read it!
Why dont you? Let me guess! You got zip, nada, nothing, zero? Funny boy.

I have given more than a few reasons why the evidence used in evolution science is so weak and this is even if you reject God,it makes no difference if you believe in God or not. I was not trying to prove evolution is wrong. I have only given reasons throughout this thread that are real problems in evolution science when it comes to the evidence they use and it can be verified and I encourage you and others to look into it and verify because I've got no reason to lie or just make up things and I cannot change somebodies mind who just chooses to believe in evolution despite the serious problems when it comes to evidence life evolves and the evidence that is used by scientists to claim life evolves.

Look into it??

I know far more, as to some few million others, about biology / evolution
than you. That is obvious. It is also obvious that the "weakness" and "serious problems" you perceive
start behind your eyes.

You dont "lie" as such, but you make a great many false statements in your
gross ignorance. Show some self respect already, it is embarrassing to behold.

But hey, we did get one solid thing here, in your post.
You have conceded that you have nothing whatever to say,
other than your usual rather droll and facile op ed.

You nor anyone has a fact contrary to ToE.

THAT is a fact.

If you want to dispute something in science, bring in contrary
facts. Anything else is lame, out to lunch, and, well, childish.

You just refuse to look at the problems with the evidence used in evolution science that I have addressed in this thread. That is OK,you can do it. But the good thing about this is that people can go back through and read and they can verfity for themselves that I am right. Now,whether they take the time to do that is another thing,but they can. And they'll know who was right and who was wrong defending the ToE whether they believe in God or not.

[abelcainsbrother]

It is useless to go against evidence without evidence to the contrary (which you don't have), no matter which way it lies. I changed my mind because I honestly looked into it and verified. For all it matters, you can take Darwin away and ToE would still stand on evidence, not on Dawrin.

And I'm sure Ross is very smart but as Lenox said "nonsense is still nonsense..."

I know it is useless to go against evidence without evidence which is one reason why Gap Creationism is more believable of a theory than the ToE is. Quantity of evidence will never beat quality of evidence. Yes,Hugh Ross is smart scientifically and he's alot smarter scientically than alot of atheist scientists that get propped up over him for some reason.

So show the evidence. Quality/quantity don't matter as long as the evidence has merit.

Well the only problem is I don't want to turn this into another Gap Theory thread.I have just been dealing with evolution science on its own merits based on its evidence in this thread without bringing it into it.But I think I can say this,the reasons I've already given that are real serious probems with evidence in evolution science already makes evolution look weaker and less believable already without having even brought the Gap Theory into it. If people have looked into these serious problems with evidence in evolution science and verified that they are real problems? The ToE is already less believable already whether they believe in God or not. Of course though people can choose to believe anything they choose to.

No, the problem for you is you have not one fact to offer against ToE.

That is a big problem. Did you know that?

You wont be able to make this into a "gap theory" thread. You will be all alone, nobody
wants to discuss such nonsense.

How about if you just go off by yourself, find something that can be verified, and
dont come back till you have something besides your same-same of nothing-nothing?

Everything I have said about some of the evidence in evolution science is true. I don't have to bring the Gap Theory into this thread to deal with some of the evidence used for evidence life evolves from scientists that is real weak evidence.Don't take it personally,that this evidence in evolution science is so weak,instead embrace these problems and face up to them and admit it.Maybe even try to do something about them like Rupert Sheldrake,Derek Hough,etc.

[Audie]

Read? You want me to read? Write down your disproof of ToE, that I made read it!
Why dont you? Let me guess! You got zip, nada, nothing, zero? Funny boy.

I have given more than a few reasons why the evidence used in evolution science is so weak and this is even if you reject God,it makes no difference if you believe in God or not. I was not trying to prove evolution is wrong. I have only given reasons throughout this thread that are real problems in evolution science when it comes to the evidence they use and it can be verified and I encourage you and others to look into it and verify because I've got no reason to lie or just make up things and I cannot change somebodies mind who just chooses to believe in evolution despite the serious problems when it comes to evidence life evolves and the

Look into it??

I know far more, as to some few million others, about biology / evolution
than you. That is obvious. It is also obvious that the "weakness" and "serious problems" you perceive
start behind your eyes.

You dont "lie" as such, but you make a great many false statements in your
gross ignorance. Show some self respect already, it is embarrassing to behold.

But hey, we did get one solid thing here, in your post.
You have conceded that you have nothing whatever to say,
other than your usual rather droll and facile op ed.

You nor anyone has a fact contrary to ToE.

THAT is a fact.

If you want to dispute something in science, bring in contrary
facts. Anything else is lame, out to lunch, and, well, childish.

You just refuse to look at the problems with the evidence used in evolution science that I have addressed in this thread. That is OK,you can do it. But the good thing about this is that people can go back through and read and they can verfity for themselves that I am right. Now,whether they take the time to do that is another thing,but they can. And they'll know who was right and who was wrong defending the ToE whether they believe in God or not.

The fault is not with me, dear boy. "Refuse to look". I have seen your hyperbolic ignorant drivel. it is worthless.

Now, I have never said you lie, but you keep bringing it up, so here it is back at you.

See, you like to SAY you dont lie, and have no reason to: you SAY you have found "problems" but the only "problems" you present are nonsense. you say you dont lie, but you make things up about me, others like this "conspiracy", and make false statements, asserting them as fact. That is a shameful practice for a professing Christian. Or anyone else.



Here is a fact: you have no evidence against ToE. Not one (1) SINGLE solitary fraction of a factoid contrary to ToE.

Lets hear you admit it.

[Audie]

I know it is useless to go against evidence without evidence which is one reason why Gap Creationism is more believable of a theory than the ToE is. Quantity of evidence will never beat quality of evidence. Yes,Hugh Ross is smart scientifically and he's alot smarter scientically than alot of atheist scientists that get propped up over him for some reason.

So show the evidence. Quality/quantity don't matter as long as the evidence has merit.

Well the only problem is I don't want to turn this into another Gap Theory thread.I have just been dealing with evolution science on its own merits based on its evidence in this thread without bringing it into it.But I think I can say this,the reasons I've already given that are real serious probems with evidence in evolution science already makes evolution look weaker and less believable already without having even brought the Gap Theory into it. If people have looked into these serious problems with evidence in evolution science and verified that they are real problems? The ToE is already less believable already whether they believe in God or not. Of course though people can choose to believe anything they choose to.

No, the problem for you is you have not one fact to offer against ToE.

That is a big problem. Did you know that?

You wont be able to make this into a "gap theory" thread. You will be all alone, nobody
wants to discuss such nonsense.

How about if you just go off by yourself, find something that can be verified, and
dont come back till you have something besides your same-same of nothing-nothing?

Everything I have said about some of the evidence in evolution science is true. I don't have to bring the Gap Theory into this thread to deal with some of the evidence used for evidence life evolves from scientists that is real weak evidence.Don't take it personally,that this evidence in evolution science is so weak,instead embrace these problems and face up to them and admit it.Maybe even try to do something about them like Rupert Sheldrake,Derek Hough,etc.

Name name ONE thing you have said for evidence of ToE that is true. One.

All the above is empty blather until you can produce data that is contrary to ToE.

Why cant you just deliver, or admit that there isnt any?

[abelcainsbrother]

So show the evidence. Quality/quantity don't matter as long as the evidence has merit.

Well the only problem is I don't want to turn this into another Gap Theory thread.I have just been dealing with evolution science on its own merits based on its evidence in this thread without bringing it into it.But I think I can say this,the reasons I've already given that are real serious probems with evidence in evolution science already makes evolution look weaker and less believable already without having even brought the Gap Theory into it. If people have looked into these serious problems with evidence in evolution science and verified that they are real problems? The ToE is already less believable already whether they believe in God or not. Of course though people can choose to believe anything they choose to.

No, the problem for you is you have not one fact to offer against ToE.

That is a big problem. Did you know that?

You wont be able to make this into a "gap theory" thread. You will be all alone, nobody
wants to discuss such nonsense.

How about if you just go off by yourself, find something that can be verified, and
dont come back till you have something besides your same-same of nothing-nothing?

Everything I have said about some of the evidence in evolution science is true. I don't have to bring the Gap Theory into this thread to deal with some of the evidence used for evidence life evolves from scientists that is real weak evidence.Don't take it personally,that this evidence in evolution science is so weak,instead embrace these problems and face up to them and admit it.Maybe even try to do something about them like Rupert Sheldrake,Derek Hough,etc.

Name name ONE thing you have said for evidence of ToE that is true. One.

All the above is empty blather until you can produce data that is contrary to ToE.

Why cant you just deliver, or admit that there isnt any?

I'm not going to repeat myself but everything I said about the evidence used in evolution science is true and it is very weak evidence life evolves. If scientists cannot make life evolve? It did not happen on its own,no matter how you can explain it did. If you can explain how or why life evolves, but cannot demonstrate it? It is you that have flawed data. You are still hiding behind the evolution wall when you say until I can produce data that is contrary to ToE.

[Audie]

Well the only problem is I don't want to turn this into another Gap Theory thread.I have just been dealing with evolution science on its own merits based on its evidence in this thread without bringing it into it.But I think I can say this,the reasons I've already given that are real serious probems with evidence in evolution science already makes evolution look weaker and less believable already without having even brought the Gap Theory into it. If people have looked into these serious problems with evidence in evolution science and verified that they are real problems? The ToE is already less believable already whether they believe in God or not. Of course though people can choose to believe anything they choose to.

No, the problem for you is you have not one fact to offer against ToE.

That is a big problem. Did you know that?

You wont be able to make this into a "gap theory" thread. You will be all alone, nobody
wants to discuss such nonsense.

How about if you just go off by yourself, find something that can be verified, and
dont come back till you have something besides your same-same of nothing-nothing?

Everything I have said about some of the evidence in evolution science is true. I don't have to bring the Gap Theory into this thread to deal with some of the evidence used for evidence life evolves from scientists that is real weak evidence.Don't take it personally,that this evidence in evolution science is so weak,instead embrace these problems and face up to them and admit it.Maybe even try to do something about them like Rupert Sheldrake,Derek Hough,etc.

Name name ONE thing you have said for evidence of ToE that is true. One.

All the above is empty blather until you can produce data that is contrary to ToE.

Why cant you just deliver, or admit that there isnt any?

I'm not going to repeat myself but everything I said about the evidence used in evolution science is true and it is very weak evidence life evolves. If scientists cannot make life evolve? It did not happen on its own,no matter how you can explain it did. If you can explain how or why life evolves, but cannot demonstrate it? It is you that have flawed data. You are still hiding behind the evolution wall when you say until I can produce data that is contrary to ToE.

No, abe, you simply do not know what you are talking about. "Weak evidence".

You can convince yourself; people generally find they themselves are the easiest people to fool.


Im not hiding, there is no "wall" which is just a metaphor anyway.

So please,...quit lying about me. It only reinforces the obvious about the poverty of your ideas.

Now..

Do you really not understand that to challenge a theory, you must provide contrary evidence? Insulting / lying about me, by saying I am HIDING?

Pretending that there is only weak evidence for ToE is pretending.

You have zero chance of ever producing evidence contrary to ToE. Perhaps you realize that, and try to make up for it by pointing false fingers at me, and hallucinating conspiracy. Both of those are dishonest and shameful.

Lets see if you are capable of being forthright about one simple thing.

Can you just say "There is no known data indicating ToE is false".

Try it. Say it a few times. Maybe the significance will sink in.

[RickD]

Audie wrote:
You have zero chance of ever producing evidence contrary to ToE. Perhaps you realize that, and try to make up for it by pointing false fingers at me, and hallucinating conspiracy. Both of those are dishonest and shameful.

Audie,

Are you saying that the ToE isn't a scientific theory that could one day be falsified? Or are you saying that ACB specifically has zero chance of ever finding evidence contrary to ToE?

[Audie]

Audie wrote:
You have zero chance of ever producing evidence contrary to ToE. Perhaps you realize that, and try to make up for it by pointing false fingers at me, and hallucinating conspiracy. Both of those are dishonest and shameful.

Audie,

Are you saying that the ToE isn't a scientific theory that could one day be falsified? Or are you saying that ACB specifically has zero chance of ever finding evidence contrary to ToE?

Abe wont be the one who finds it, if someone does. But my phrasing is bad. I kind of thought someone might call me on it.

Of course any theory is open to disproof.

The chance of anyone ever finding proof that ToE is false is, in my estimation, vaaanishingly small.

In the absence of any such evidence, that claims that ToE is false, or in big trouble etc, is just silly.

[RickD]

Audie wrote:
You have zero chance of ever producing evidence contrary to ToE. Perhaps you realize that, and try to make up for it by pointing false fingers at me, and hallucinating conspiracy. Both of those are dishonest and shameful.

Audie,

Are you saying that the ToE isn't a scientific theory that could one day be falsified? Or are you saying that ACB specifically has zero chance of ever finding evidence contrary to ToE?

Abe wont be the one who finds it, if someone does. But my phrasing is bad. I kind of thought someone might call me on it.

Of course any theory is open to disproof.

The chance of anyone ever finding proof that ToE is false is, in my estimation, vaaanishingly small.

In the absence of any such evidence, that claims that ToE is false, or in big trouble etc, is just silly.

Good save.

[Audie]

Audie wrote:
You have zero chance of ever producing evidence contrary to ToE. Perhaps you realize that, and try to make up for it by pointing false fingers at me, and hallucinating conspiracy. Both of those are dishonest and shameful.

Audie,

Are you saying that the ToE isn't a scientific theory that could one day be falsified? Or are you saying that ACB specifically has zero chance of ever finding evidence contrary to ToE?

Abe wont be the one who finds it, if someone does. But my phrasing is bad. I kind of thought someone might call me on it.

Of course any theory is open to disproof.

The chance of anyone ever finding proof that ToE is false is, in my estimation, vaaanishingly small.

In the absence of any such evidence, that claims that ToE is false, or in big trouble etc, is just silly.

Good save.

I knew what I meant.

[RickD]

Audie wrote:
You have zero chance of ever producing evidence contrary to ToE. Perhaps you realize that, and try to make up for it by pointing false fingers at me, and hallucinating conspiracy. Both of those are dishonest and shameful.

Audie,

Are you saying that the ToE isn't a scientific theory that could one day be falsified? Or are you saying that ACB specifically has zero chance of ever finding evidence contrary to ToE?

Abe wont be the one who finds it, if someone does. But my phrasing is bad. I kind of thought someone might call me on it.

Of course any theory is open to disproof.

The chance of anyone ever finding proof that ToE is false is, in my estimation, vaaanishingly small.

In the absence of any such evidence, that claims that ToE is false, or in big trouble etc, is just silly.

Good save.

I knew what I meant.

I know Audie. I'm just teasing you.

[Storyteller]