My Pastor has gone and done it.

[Christian2]

Thank you for the video. The speaker said 15% to 25% are radical.

This almost matches my research which is 7 1/2% to 25%.

I looked up Brigitte Gabriel to find her credentials. "Ms. Gabriel is one of the leading national security experts n the word providing information and analysis on the rise of Islamic terrorism."

This will be useful for the meeting tomorrow.

I wonder what the world would be like if the Christians had not chosen to fight Muslim aggression in the Crusades. How many Christians would be left?

I liked your thought when you said:

"As Christians we should be about Christ's will. This means protecting the innocent, the weak.
At the same time we shouldn't so cling life that we're not willing to lay it down for Christ."

Thanks.

I am thankful people are coming into understanding of what God means by protecting the innocent, the weak!



Now we do hear a lot of the headlines - record number of Muslims coming the Jesus due to dreams, visions, and evangelism but is that really accurate or does it lure into a false sense of security?

I cannot find hard evidence of this, no facts, no figures as one has from the historical records of past revivals throughout Christian era that suggest this actually happening on the scale it is touted as happening in christian media land.

Yes, there are a few Muslims coveting and some dying in Muslims countries but the way the Christian media and blogasphere portrays it so many Muslims are coming to Christ that Islam will self destruct in Europe and elsewhere. However, facts and figures and real time events do not paint the same picture.

Does anyone have any hard facts and figures to support how many Muslims are becoming Born Again? I cannot find any only glowing reports that suggest it is but no hard factual data.

I do find data that reveals that the majority of Muslims will not convert to Christianity nor assimilate to a host country and lie in order to take over one slow step at a time. However, there does seem to be a small percent who do become born again but not in the numbers suggested by media hype. Is there any hard data on this anyone can find?

Forgive my skepticism but I do know how evil works to lull folks into false sense of security to let their guard down...

Blessings!
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http://www.gospelherald.com/articles/59 ... nistry.htm

http://lib.convdocs.org/docs/index-118889.html?page=65

http://mashable.com/2015/09/05/refugees ... Rx8N7RpSqg

[Christian2]

I found the handouts for the Jesus Fatwah online.

We will be discussing Session 4 this Saturday.

http://www.livingthequestions.com/xcart ... Reader.pdf

[Christian2]

To all,

The sessions are over. The Pastor invited a Muslim lady to speak. This lady is trained in Islam and its promotion. "When I am asked to come and speak about Islam." She brought 3 books for each of us, all promoting Islam.

I asked a question:

The Qur'an says that Jesus did not die nor was He crucified. How do you reconcile that with the passages where Jesus said He would die and rise again?" She said, "That is a theological question and I am not prepared to answer theological questions!!!"

She said Jesus will return and bring peace. I asked, "Will there still be Christians and Jews, etc. in this world of peace?" She skirted the question and essentially did not answer my question.

One Christian in the class thanked her and said she was so interesting and articulate and he got all choked up and came close to tears.

I don't think my Pastor knows what he has done. But then he thinks there are many ways to the Father (he said so in one of the sessions), even though Jesus said "no one comes to the Father except through me." Jesus did not say He was one of many ways to the Father, but one way through Him."

The Muslim lady invited all of us to meet at a pot-luck supper to meet more Muslims and talk about Islam and all were thrilled at the invitation.

What kind of a Pastor would do such a thing?

I am concerned for this church and all churches and the Pastors of these churches who think this way. Are they really Christians? How can they read the New Testament and think this way?

Thanks.

[IceMobster]

"That is a theological question and I am not prepared to answer theological questions!!!"
Tells you everything. Fu%king pathetic. What answers is she ready to answer then?

interreligious dialog is great, but this is just pathetic...

[Kurieuo]

You should write a letter to the pastor, and the church denomination in question.
There are a lot of general Christian beliefs he's evidently already against.

I'm sure he's a very nice guy and all, but he really ought to not be a leader in a truly Christian church of any denomination.

[RickD]

You should write a letter to the pastor, and the church denomination in question.
There are a lot of general Christian beliefs he's evidently already against.

I'm sure he's a very nice guy and all, but he really ought to not be a leader in a truly Christian church of any denomination.

Yes. This is the appropriate response.

[Christian2]

"That is a theological question and I am not prepared to answer theological questions!!!"
Tells you everything. Fu%king pathetic. What answers is she ready to answer then?

interreligious dialog is great, but this is just pathetic...

The Muslim lady was there to explain how she came to be a Muslim and to explain what Islam is all about. Formerly she was a Christian. She did answer some questions, but her responses were very long. Too much time was taken up by her speeches. One being how she met some Muslims in college and found out about their fasting. She decided "if Muslims fast at Ramadan for their god, she should do it for her God." She said it was very hard but after the fast she felt wonderful." Did she ever fast as a Christian?

We only had 1 1/2 hours for this session, so we ran out of time.

My Pastor made a mistake but didn't realize it. He said that Jesus said there would be no marriage in heaven. What he didn't know is that Muslims believe there will be sex/marriage in heaven. He showed his lack of knowledge of Islam.

[Christian2]

You should write a letter to the pastor, and the church denomination in question.
There are a lot of general Christian beliefs he's evidently already against.

I'm sure he's a very nice guy and all, but he really ought to not be a leader in a truly Christian church of any denomination.

Check this out:

http://www.isna.net/interfaith-partners.html

ISNA is Islamic Society of North America.

Just how many churches are doing what my Pastor has done?

I'm not sure what I am going to do, but I made sure I got a copy of all the books she handed out. She only had a few copies of one of the books and I got a copy of them all. I started to read them and at first glance it seems there is enough to show some important differences between what Islam teaches and what Christianity teaches and this is a good thing; hopefully enough people in the class know enough about the Bible to see the differences and the misleading statements.

[Philip]

Yes, Christian, you should submit a typed sheet with assertions made and under each point reference what the Bible says that directly contradicts it. And after you do so, I would strongly suggest you find another church and pastor, because this one is going to lead many astray. People bent on an agenda are rarely persuaded by clear theology that is inconvenient to their agenda. But it would be good to put in as many people's hands the truth to why what is being put forth is false and unBiblical, and the reason why you should leave. I have been in a church in which I realized the leadership was causing many problems and not addressing disruptive issues. I gave them a chance to explain. But when they did not, we left.

[Kurieuo]

You know what's really sad C2? I think a lot of churches fail to teach Christians any real substantial doctrine, if the leaders even know it themselves, and if they do know it then believe it unashamedly.

Many sermons today are always Christianity as we can apply in our lives today, or our life experiences with reference to Scripture here or that. That's not true teaching. That's called placing self first and asking how can doctrine fit in with one's life.

Recently I heard that worship isn't just about singing and praising God, but worship is also about teaching and learning doctrine. Many are only familiar with the former, the latter is sacrificed as unnecessary or boring types.

Your situation is what happens in churches where sound doctrine plays second fiddle. Leaders are setup who perhaps too don't know why they believe, and even what it is they're suppose to believe.

[Christian2]

You know what's really sad C2? I think a lot of churches fail to teach Christians any real substantial doctrine, if the leaders even know it themselves, and if they do know it then believe it unashamedly.

Many sermons today are always Christianity as we can apply in our lives today, or our life experiences with reference to Scripture here or that. That's not true teaching. That's called placing self first and asking how can doctrine fit in with one's life.

Recently I heard that worship isn't just about singing and praising God, but worship is also about teaching and learning doctrine. Many are only familiar with the former, the latter is sacrificed as unnecessary or boring types.

Your situation is what happens in churches where sound doctrine plays second fiddle. Leaders are setup who perhaps too don't know why they believe, and even what it is they're suppose to believe.

I think you have nailed it.

I grew up in a Christian family and church -- went to Sunday School as a child and church every Sunday, but I didn't learn anything. The church did not teach the Trinity. I thought it was just me not listening, but my two brothers were brought up in the same church and I asked them if they knew the Trinity, if they knew that Jesus was the incarnate Word of God and found that neither had.

Some in my church now don't even know what the Gospel is. Three tried to convince me that the Gospel was love your neighbor as yourself. Some think they are fulfilling the Great Commission by being nice to everyone. Some don't believe Jesus rose bodily from the grave. One said Jesus cried about the cup He was to take means He was afraid to die. The Jesus I know isn't afraid of anything.

When I started witnessing to Muslims I knew next to nothing about Christianity. Imagine someone who had barely heard of the Trinity trying to teach it to a bunch of Muslims!

My Pastor's idea of teaching the Trinity of giving an analogy of water, steam and ice, which is an analogy of Modalism!!!

When I first starting going to Bible studies at my church, I thought I was so behind the others that I taught myself. I bought and studied books written by top theologians. It wasn't long before I passed them in understanding Scriptures. It was easy to see so many of them weren't taught proper doctrine. I found myself with my eyes bugged out and my mouth open in dismay.

The other most important thing taught it my Church is that there are many ways to the Father. If so, then why did Jesus die? This is heresy.

[Philip]

Christian2: The other most important thing taught it my Church is that there are many ways to the Father. If so, then why did Jesus die? This is heresy.

Christian, what is your church's teaching about the Bible? Do they view it as the infallible word of God? If not, then it is unlikely that using Scripture to reveal their inaccuracies will do little good. Really, many churches, they might as well be some kind of social, do-gooder club, as the Lord is not the source of their efforts or beliefs.

[Kurieuo]

You know what's really sad C2? I think a lot of churches fail to teach Christians any real substantial doctrine, if the leaders even know it themselves, and if they do know it then believe it unashamedly.

Many sermons today are always Christianity as we can apply in our lives today, or our life experiences with reference to Scripture here or that. That's not true teaching. That's called placing self first and asking how can doctrine fit in with one's life.

Recently I heard that worship isn't just about singing and praising God, but worship is also about teaching and learning doctrine. Many are only familiar with the former, the latter is sacrificed as unnecessary or boring types.

Your situation is what happens in churches where sound doctrine plays second fiddle. Leaders are setup who perhaps too don't know why they believe, and even what it is they're suppose to believe.

I think you have nailed it.

I grew up in a Christian family and church -- went to Sunday School as a child and church every Sunday, but I didn't learn anything. The church did not teach the Trinity. I thought it was just me not listening, but my two brothers were brought up in the same church and I asked them if they knew the Trinity, if they knew that Jesus was the incarnate Word of God and found that neither had.

Some in my church now don't even know what the Gospel is. Three tried to convince me that the Gospel was love your neighbor as yourself. Some think they are fulfilling the Great Commission by being nice to everyone. Some don't believe Jesus rose bodily from the grave. One said Jesus cried about the cup He was to take means He was afraid to die. The Jesus I know isn't afraid of anything.

When I started witnessing to Muslims I knew next to nothing about Christianity. Imagine someone who had barely heard of the Trinity trying to teach it to a bunch of Muslims!

My Pastor's idea of teaching the Trinity of giving an analogy of water, steam and ice, which is an analogy of Modalism!!!

When I first starting going to Bible studies at my church, I thought I was so behind the others that I taught myself. I bought and studied books written by top theologians. It wasn't long before I passed them in understanding Scriptures. It was easy to see so many of them weren't taught proper doctrine. I found myself with my eyes bugged out and my mouth open in dismay.

The other most important thing taught it my Church is that there are many ways to the Father. If so, then why did Jesus die? This is heresy.

That makes me quite sad. I'm really sure your church isn't alone on that.

[Christian2]

Christian2: The other most important thing taught it my Church is that there are many ways to the Father. If so, then why did Jesus die? This is heresy.

Christian, what is your church's teaching about the Bible? Do they view it as the infallible word of God? If not, then it is unlikely that using Scripture to reveal their inaccuracies will do little good. Really, many churches, they might as well be some kind of social, do-gooder club, as the Lord is not the source of their efforts or beliefs.

See this:

http://www.siouxcityfirst.com/283125

[Christian2]

You know what's really sad C2? I think a lot of churches fail to teach Christians any real substantial doctrine, if the leaders even know it themselves, and if they do know it then believe it unashamedly.

Many sermons today are always Christianity as we can apply in our lives today, or our life experiences with reference to Scripture here or that. That's not true teaching. That's called placing self first and asking how can doctrine fit in with one's life.

Recently I heard that worship isn't just about singing and praising God, but worship is also about teaching and learning doctrine. Many are only familiar with the former, the latter is sacrificed as unnecessary or boring types.

Your situation is what happens in churches where sound doctrine plays second fiddle. Leaders are setup who perhaps too don't know why they believe, and even what it is they're suppose to believe.

I think you have nailed it.

I grew up in a Christian family and church -- went to Sunday School as a child and church every Sunday, but I didn't learn anything. The church did not teach the Trinity. I thought it was just me not listening, but my two brothers were brought up in the same church and I asked them if they knew the Trinity, if they knew that Jesus was the incarnate Word of God and found that neither had.

Some in my church now don't even know what the Gospel is. Three tried to convince me that the Gospel was love your neighbor as yourself. Some think they are fulfilling the Great Commission by being nice to everyone. Some don't believe Jesus rose bodily from the grave. One said Jesus cried about the cup He was to take means He was afraid to die. The Jesus I know isn't afraid of anything.

When I started witnessing to Muslims I knew next to nothing about Christianity. Imagine someone who had barely heard of the Trinity trying to teach it to a bunch of Muslims!

My Pastor's idea of teaching the Trinity of giving an analogy of water, steam and ice, which is an analogy of Modalism!!!

When I first starting going to Bible studies at my church, I thought I was so behind the others that I taught myself. I bought and studied books written by top theologians. It wasn't long before I passed them in understanding Scriptures. It was easy to see so many of them weren't taught proper doctrine. I found myself with my eyes bugged out and my mouth open in dismay.

The other most important thing taught it my Church is that there are many ways to the Father. If so, then why did Jesus die? This is heresy.

That makes me quite sad. I'm really sure your church isn't alone on that.

It makes me sad too, but what can one person do about it?