My Pastor has gone and done it.

[Philip]

Christian2:
See this:

http://www.siouxcityfirst.com/283125

That link really doesn't explain how they view the authority or reliability of Scripture, only that they consider it important. Also, the link refers to the importance of "tradition" - which is worrisome.

Also: "We cherish an ecumenical tradition and seek to work together with other Christian denominations as well as other religions.

To what purpose? Charitable and humanitarian endeavors, or dialogue? What, good, pray tell, comes from dialoging with non-Christian religions? Do we need to hear and understand their beliefs better? In such dialogue, is the church to express where they see heresy or doctrines that contradict Scripture? What is the aim in such dialogue?

"As such, tradition transcends the story of particular traditions."

What the heck does THAT mean?

A whole lot of heresy and bad teaching comes from churches that elevate their traditions with Scripture.

[Kurieuo]

Remember Luther's 95 Theses?
Maybe in your church, you can do something similar.
Re-affirming basic Christian tenets and how the church has strayed.
Might look a bit odd, but would be great effect seeing you nail them to the door.

Really, I see a main philosophy that has seeped in is Humanism.
It's like an empty shell when it comes to love and any good it promotes.
Because it denies what gives such true lasting meaning, God.
Hence, the real Gospel isn't important.

What we're seeing is the outworking of such in society, education and even churches.
How can you compete with such? It will take generations to weed out even if you had the power to do so.
But, I'm sure if you press into God then he'll reveal ways in which you might be able to help.

Try not to be disheartened though...

• Romans 8:28: And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

[Christian2]

Christian2:
See this:

http://www.siouxcityfirst.com/283125

That link really doesn't explain how they view the authority or reliability of Scripture, only that they consider it important. Also, the link refers to the importance of "tradition" - which is worrisome.

Also: "We cherish an ecumenical tradition and seek to work together with other Christian denominations as well as other religions.

To what purpose? Charitable and humanitarian endeavors, or dialogue? What, good, pray tell, comes from dialoging with non-Christian religions? Do we need to hear and understand their beliefs better? In such dialogue, is the church to express where they see heresy or doctrines that contradict Scripture? What is the aim in such dialogue?

"As such, tradition transcends the story of particular traditions."

What the heck does THAT mean?

A whole lot of heresy and bad teaching comes from churches that elevate their traditions with Scripture.

Here is another one:

http://www.upc.org/NewHere/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

[Christian2]

Remember Luther's 95 Theses?
Maybe in your church, you can do something similar.
Re-affirming basic Christian tenets and how the church has strayed.
Might look a bit odd, but would be great effect seeing you nail them to the door.

Really, I see a main philosophy that has seeped in is Humanism.
It's like an empty shell when it comes to love and any good it promotes.
Because it denies what gives such true lasting meaning, God.
Hence, the real Gospel isn't important.

What we're seeing is the outworking of such in society, education and even churches.
How can you compete with such? It will take generations to weed out even if you had the power to do so.
But, I'm sure if you press into God then he'll reveal ways in which you might be able to help.

Try not to be disheartened though...

• Romans 8:28: And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

This is bigger than the Methodist Church.

This following link is about Ben Daniel, a Presbyterian. This is the guy who wrote the handouts for the Jesus Fatwah program we just had at our church. I thought he sounded like a Muslim -- so much misinformation and misleading statements.

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/ ... -islamists

[RickD]

Aha, Presbyterian. That explains a lot!

[Christian2]

Aha, Presbyterian. That explains a lot!

How so?

[RickD]

Aha, Presbyterian. That explains a lot!

How so?

They're infamous for their liberal and "inclusive" views. Inclusive as far as allowing some rather questionable doctrine.

I used to go to a Presbyterian church about 30 years ago. The pastor would not teach homosexual sin was acceptable, despite the church's view on the subject.

[Kurieuo]

Remember Luther's 95 Theses?
Maybe in your church, you can do something similar.
Re-affirming basic Christian tenets and how the church has strayed.
Might look a bit odd, but would be great effect seeing you nail them to the door.

Really, I see a main philosophy that has seeped in is Humanism.
It's like an empty shell when it comes to love and any good it promotes.
Because it denies what gives such true lasting meaning, God.
Hence, the real Gospel isn't important.

What we're seeing is the outworking of such in society, education and even churches.
How can you compete with such? It will take generations to weed out even if you had the power to do so.
But, I'm sure if you press into God then he'll reveal ways in which you might be able to help.

Try not to be disheartened though...

• Romans 8:28: And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

This is bigger than the Methodist Church.

Yes, it is.

[Kurieuo]

You know what's really sad C2? I think a lot of churches fail to teach Christians any real substantial doctrine, if the leaders even know it themselves, and if they do know it then believe it unashamedly.

Many sermons today are always Christianity as we can apply in our lives today, or our life experiences with reference to Scripture here or that. That's not true teaching. That's called placing self first and asking how can doctrine fit in with one's life.

Recently I heard that worship isn't just about singing and praising God, but worship is also about teaching and learning doctrine. Many are only familiar with the former, the latter is sacrificed as unnecessary or boring types.

Your situation is what happens in churches where sound doctrine plays second fiddle. Leaders are setup who perhaps too don't know why they believe, and even what it is they're suppose to believe.

I think you have nailed it.

C2, in relation to your church and pastor and Christianity, the different "gospels", listen to this woman's question to Jones and his response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vbydx9 ... be&t=9m50s

And what of this question? And how many years on it is even, as you say, considered Christian gospel by some.

• "But nonetheless, it's a highly regarded Christian virtue these days to be both charitable and tolerant of people of different views from one's self. Do you disapprove of that?"

[Christian2]

You know what's really sad C2? I think a lot of churches fail to teach Christians any real substantial doctrine, if the leaders even know it themselves, and if they do know it then believe it unashamedly.

Many sermons today are always Christianity as we can apply in our lives today, or our life experiences with reference to Scripture here or that. That's not true teaching. That's called placing self first and asking how can doctrine fit in with one's life.

Recently I heard that worship isn't just about singing and praising God, but worship is also about teaching and learning doctrine. Many are only familiar with the former, the latter is sacrificed as unnecessary or boring types.

Your situation is what happens in churches where sound doctrine plays second fiddle. Leaders are setup who perhaps too don't know why they believe, and even what it is they're suppose to believe.

I think you have nailed it.

C2, in relation to your church and pastor and Christianity, the different "gospels", listen to this woman's question to Jones and his response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vbydx9 ... be&t=9m50s

And what of this question? And how many years on it is even, as you say, considered Christian gospel by some.

• "But nonetheless, it's a highly regarded Christian virtue these days to be both charitable and tolerant of people of different views from one's self. Do you disapprove of that?"

Thank you, Kurieuo. I made it through most of the books the Muslim lady gave us. There is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment. I pointed all this out to my Pastor.

My Pastor invited all of the church to a potluck supper being held tomorrow. I do not plan to attend.

I suggested he have a follow-up session and address some of what is in the books: Gentile Christians eating pork; original sin; Allah in the Arabic Bible; the substitution of someone other than Jesus on the cross; worshipping Christmas trees; creation in 6 days; God gets tired and has to rest; the divinity of Jesus; the concept of the Trinity; Christianity borrowing from paganism; the Gospel of Barnabas (I have a copy) which says that Judas was crucified instead of Jesus and has Jesus saying that He is not the Messiah, but Muhammad is; Surah 5:32; and others.

I think this is all I can do.

[IceMobster]

Thank you, Kurieuo. I made it through most of the books the Muslim lady gave us. There is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment. I pointed all this out to my Pastor.

My Pastor invited all of the church to a potluck supper being held tomorrow. I do not plan to attend.

I suggested he have a follow-up session and address some of what is in the books: Gentile Christians eating pork; original sin; Allah in the Arabic Bible; the substitution of someone other than Jesus on the cross; worshipping Christmas trees; creation in 6 days; God gets tired and has to rest; the divinity of Jesus; the concept of the Trinity; Christianity borrowing from paganism; the Gospel of Barnabas (I have a copy) which says that Judas was crucified instead of Jesus and has Jesus saying that He is not the Messiah, but Muhammad is; Surah 5:32; and others.

I think this is all I can do.

Why do you not plan to attend? You can point this things out.

[Christian2]

Thank you, Kurieuo. I made it through most of the books the Muslim lady gave us. There is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment. I pointed all this out to my Pastor.

My Pastor invited all of the church to a potluck supper being held tomorrow. I do not plan to attend.

I suggested he have a follow-up session and address some of what is in the books: Gentile Christians eating pork; original sin; Allah in the Arabic Bible; the substitution of someone other than Jesus on the cross; worshipping Christmas trees; creation in 6 days; God gets tired and has to rest; the divinity of Jesus; the concept of the Trinity; Christianity borrowing from paganism; the Gospel of Barnabas (I have a copy) which says that Judas was crucified instead of Jesus and has Jesus saying that He is not the Messiah, but Muhammad is; Surah 5:32; and others.

I think this is all I can do.

Why do you not plan to attend? You can point this things out.

The purpose of the supper is social. I think I know a better way to point things out and that is to engage the Muslim lady in a dialog addressing some things in the books. This would be better done by email, but I don't want her to have my email address, so it should be done through the Pastor and I'm not sure he would do it. I'm working on it.

[RickD]

Thank you, Kurieuo. I made it through most of the books the Muslim lady gave us. There is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment. I pointed all this out to my Pastor.

My Pastor invited all of the church to a potluck supper being held tomorrow. I do not plan to attend.

I suggested he have a follow-up session and address some of what is in the books: Gentile Christians eating pork; original sin; Allah in the Arabic Bible; the substitution of someone other than Jesus on the cross; worshipping Christmas trees; creation in 6 days; God gets tired and has to rest; the divinity of Jesus; the concept of the Trinity; Christianity borrowing from paganism; the Gospel of Barnabas (I have a copy) which says that Judas was crucified instead of Jesus and has Jesus saying that He is not the Messiah, but Muhammad is; Surah 5:32; and others.

I think this is all I can do.

Why do you not plan to attend? You can point this things out.

The purpose of the supper is social. I think I know a better way to point things out and that is to engage the Muslim lady in a dialog addressing some things in the books. This would be better done by email, but I don't want her to have my email address, so it should be done through the Pastor and I'm not sure he would do it. I'm working on it.

Can you just create a new email account to use for emailing her? Don't use your normal email address.

[Christian2]

Thank you, Kurieuo. I made it through most of the books the Muslim lady gave us. There is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment. I pointed all this out to my Pastor.

My Pastor invited all of the church to a potluck supper being held tomorrow. I do not plan to attend.

I suggested he have a follow-up session and address some of what is in the books: Gentile Christians eating pork; original sin; Allah in the Arabic Bible; the substitution of someone other than Jesus on the cross; worshipping Christmas trees; creation in 6 days; God gets tired and has to rest; the divinity of Jesus; the concept of the Trinity; Christianity borrowing from paganism; the Gospel of Barnabas (I have a copy) which says that Judas was crucified instead of Jesus and has Jesus saying that He is not the Messiah, but Muhammad is; Surah 5:32; and others.

I think this is all I can do.

Why do you not plan to attend? You can point this things out.

The purpose of the supper is social. I think I know a better way to point things out and that is to engage the Muslim lady in a dialog addressing some things in the books. This would be better done by email, but I don't want her to have my email address, so it should be done through the Pastor and I'm not sure he would do it. I'm working on it.

Can you just create a new email account to use for emailing her? Don't use your normal email address.

I do have a hot mail account under a different name, but I think I need the Pastor's cooperation because all members of this session need to read the conversation and respond and then I will unmasked.

I don't want the Christians to be taken in by these books. They have zero knowledge of Islam and even need help with the Bible interpretations.

This Pastor started something and I want him to finish it.

[RickD]

Thank you, Kurieuo. I made it through most of the books the Muslim lady gave us. There is a lot of anti-Christian sentiment. I pointed all this out to my Pastor.

My Pastor invited all of the church to a potluck supper being held tomorrow. I do not plan to attend.

I suggested he have a follow-up session and address some of what is in the books: Gentile Christians eating pork; original sin; Allah in the Arabic Bible; the substitution of someone other than Jesus on the cross; worshipping Christmas trees; creation in 6 days; God gets tired and has to rest; the divinity of Jesus; the concept of the Trinity; Christianity borrowing from paganism; the Gospel of Barnabas (I have a copy) which says that Judas was crucified instead of Jesus and has Jesus saying that He is not the Messiah, but Muhammad is; Surah 5:32; and others.

I think this is all I can do.

Why do you not plan to attend? You can point this things out.

The purpose of the supper is social. I think I know a better way to point things out and that is to engage the Muslim lady in a dialog addressing some things in the books. This would be better done by email, but I don't want her to have my email address, so it should be done through the Pastor and I'm not sure he would do it. I'm working on it.

Can you just create a new email account to use for emailing her? Don't use your normal email address.

I do have a hot mail account under a different name, but I think I need the Pastor's cooperation because all members of this session need to read the conversation and respond and then I will unmasked.

I don't want the Christians to be taken in by these books. They have zero knowledge of Islam and even need help with the Bible interpretations.

This Pastor started something and I want him to finish it.

Are you really concerned that people there know it's you speaking up? Don't you have one foot out the door of that church anyways?

If I were in your shoes, and had a pastor teaching that kind of bs, I would make an attempt to say my peace, and let the chips fall where they may.