Topic split from Gay marriage thread

[abelcainsbrother]

Well somebody has done gone and done it now and has got under Audi's skin and got her mad,Ya'll better be careful! She is a feisty one who won't put up with it.Do any of ya'll have an apology?

[Hortator]

I suppose to a putative Christian that takes in all gay people.

Right, that is the example Christ put forth when he would embrace the reprobates of Jewish society: lepers, "unclean" people (both physically and spiritually), the infirm and the lost.

Everybody from the lowest class beggar, who didn't know where his next meal would come from, to the aristocrat with a full stomach. But one thing the upper crust and the lower crust alike had in common was a willingness to change their ways, and act according to His philosophy. Or at the very least, simply believe.....I myself can only do the latter. I couldn't have the patience to teach challenge children like some incredible men and women do. Or donate 10% of my income to a charity year after year. I may be a Christian, but I am no where close in deeds to Christ.

Well somebody has done gone and done it now and has got under Audi's skin and got her mad,Ya'll better be careful! She is a feisty one who won't put up with it.Do any of ya'll have an apology?

One of the best quotes about Audie I ever heard: "Audie doesn't need a gun, that's like putting a grenade on a nuclear warhead."

[Audie]

Well somebody has done gone and done it now and has got under Audi's skin and got her mad,Ya'll better be careful! She is a feisty one who won't put up with it.Do any of ya'll have an apology?

You are attempting to be condescending to me? Silly boy.

Nobody here has "made me mad"m and what is there here to have got ten under my skin? You always like to pretend that I am "getting mad", one of the lowest of rhetorical tricks- see, you claim that the other is getting all emotional while you remain stalwartly rational, only dealing with cold facts. You lack the intellectual capacity to argue facts with me, and you certainly have no ability do something important enough to make me mad.

Paul recently was quite adamant that I had said something which I had in fact not said, and
threatened me into the bargain. I was not about to back down, and demanded an apology.

Paul did see his mistake, and apologized in the nicest way. I respect him for that, but then, he is an educated gentleman, attributes you do not have in common with him.

[Audie]

I suppose to a putative Christian that takes in all gay people.

Right, that is the example Christ put forth when he would embrace the reprobates of Jewish society: lepers, "unclean" people (both physically and spiritually), the infirm and the lost.

Everybody from the lowest class beggar, who didn't know where his next meal would come from, to the aristocrat with a full stomach. But one thing the upper crust and the lower crust alike had in common was a willingness to change their ways, and act according to His philosophy. Or at the very least, simply believe.....I myself can only do the latter. I couldn't have the patience to teach challenge children like some incredible men and women do. Or donate 10% of my income to a charity year after year. I may be a Christian, but I am no where close in deeds to Christ.

I did use the word "putative' so there would be plenty of wriggle room as to which among those
calling themselves Christian would be against civil rights for people other than themselves or those
like them.


You seem to have listed gay people among the reprobates, was that your intent?

Elsewhere I've commented on the bible saying whatever one wants it to say. This is a good enough example,
where it can be read to say that gay people are to be condemned, or, to be embraced.

How is one to know what the bible really-really means?

[Nicki]

I suppose to a putative Christian that takes in all gay people.

Right, that is the example Christ put forth when he would embrace the reprobates of Jewish society: lepers, "unclean" people (both physically and spiritually), the infirm and the lost.

Everybody from the lowest class beggar, who didn't know where his next meal would come from, to the aristocrat with a full stomach. But one thing the upper crust and the lower crust alike had in common was a willingness to change their ways, and act according to His philosophy. Or at the very least, simply believe.....I myself can only do the latter. I couldn't have the patience to teach challenge children like some incredible men and women do. Or donate 10% of my income to a charity year after year. I may be a Christian, but I am no where close in deeds to Christ.

I did use the word "putative' so there would be plenty of wriggle room as to which among those
calling themselves Christian would be against civil rights for people other than themselves or those
like them.


You seem to have listed gay people among the reprobates, was that your intent?

Elsewhere I've commented on the bible saying whatever one wants it to say. This is a good enough example,
where it can be read to say that gay people are to be condemned, or, to be embraced.

How is one to know what the bible really-really means?

It says that gay people do things that are wrong and so does everyone else. Not necessarily exactly the same things.

[Audie]

Ok, but does it specify that gay sex is wrong, of only wrong for men, anything like that?

[RickD]

Ok, but does it specify that gay sex is wrong, of only wrong for men, anything like that?

Romans 1:26-27

[Audie]

Ok, but does it specify that gay sex is wrong, of only wrong for men, anything like that?

Romans 1:26-27

Guess Im a sinner then.

[Philip]

Audie: Guess I'm a sinner then.

Then join the crowd! Recognizing that is part of knowing to seek God's forgiveness. And that's just the sins we are aware of.

Personally, I don't expect non-Christians to adhere to my values. However, there are encouragements and discouragements in various laws and rules. And so, if there are such laws that I see as bad for EVERYONE/for society, then I'm against them. If I see a law or regulation is positive for society, then I'm for it. One thing that I think would cool the ardor for same-sex marriage - as well as the big "to-do" over it - is simply do away with all benefits that the state ties to marriage. And do NOT license ministers and pastors. There should be no marriage license. Do people feel that their commitment to another person is only valid because of a legal document? Or do the desire "marriage" because they want to feel like whatever type of union is basically accepted by society? We're only to judge other Christians by Christian standards. The only other standards that really matter (other than God's), in society, are legal ones. Otherwise, one's opinions - even the collective opinions of millions - are irrelevant. And to the degree we have any say in who our leaders will be, what rulings and decisions they might make that impact us - these are truly the only reason our opinions really matter, as far as people being compelled to obey this or that.

[RickD]

Ok, but does it specify that gay sex is wrong, of only wrong for men, anything like that?

Romans 1:26-27

Guess Im a sinner then.

Yes Audie, we all are.

[PaulSacramento]

The issue with homosexuality that makes it a sin ( no more or no less than any other sin really) is that it is not ideal for the individual or the species, not in it's best interest.
Even from the biological POV, homosexuality is not ideal for the human species ( for obvious reasons).

[Hortator]

Audie: Guess I'm a sinner then.

Then join the crowd! Recognizing that is part of knowing to seek God's forgiveness. And that's just the sins we are aware of.

Personally, I don't expect non-Christians to adhere to my values. However, there are encouragements and discouragements in various laws and rules.

You don't say, Phillip. the foundation of Western civilization, the keystone of our society, not just for the U.S. but all of Europe is mostly, and always has been, Christianity. That's why with a keen eye, you can see examples of Judeo-Christian values, philosophy, and practices in almost every corner of the west. We divorce ourselves from such a rich heritage at our own peril when we do.

And Audie, you're a sinner? you don't say! unless you're an advanced AI developed by IBM, I'm pretty sure anyone with hands to type here is a human being, and is beautifully imperfect.

The issue with homosexuality that makes it a sin ( no more or no less than any other sin really) is that it is not ideal for the individual or the species, not in it's best interest.
Even from the biological POV, homosexuality is not ideal for the human species ( for obvious reasons).

I've seen hundreds of threads about homosexuality over the years. This is the part where the conversation between believers and non-believers can begin to crumble and deteriorate. Sometimes immediately to name calling.

That's why you have to post facts when you say this: to an unbeliever, telling them that homosexuality as a lifestyle may be dangerous is like telling anybody that water is dry, or fire is cold: it simply does not compute in their minds.

Luckily Rich has yet again answered the question whether homosexuality is as healthy as heterosexuality as a lifestyle:

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/h ... ality.html

Another one on homosexual parents,

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/h ... study.html

(Note: a lot of nonbelievers tend to mock the Regnerus Study. I personally, along with others, have found no errors in his research methodology. And can only conclude that the reasons for objection stem from what information was uncovered, rather than how it was discovered.)

[Audie]

Ok, but does it specify that gay sex is wrong, of only wrong for men, anything like that?

Romans 1:26-27

Guess Im a sinner then.

Yes Audie, we all are.

From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

[Audie]

The issue with homosexuality that makes it a sin ( no more or no less than any other sin really) is that it is not ideal for the individual or the species, not in it's best interest.
Even from the biological POV, homosexuality is not ideal for the human species ( for obvious reasons).

Ah but this is not so at all.

No ideals get realized on this here earth.

It is not merely in the best interests, but sometimes the only thing
possible for some individuals.. Women who have been traumatized by men, say,

As for the species as a whole, the one that has so grotesquely and unsustainably
overpopulated our biosphere, I'd say what is best is a whole lot less reproduction.

As ro the health of individuals, gay sex is a whole lot safer, for women, than hetero is.

[Audie]

Audie: Guess I'm a sinner then.

Then join the crowd! Recognizing that is part of knowing to seek God's forgiveness. And that's just the sins we are aware of.

.

I do not recognize or accept the concept of "sin", so of course I meant by Christian standards.

As for being forgiven?

While what I have done with another woman is my business, I deny 100 percent
that there is anything in it to be forgiven.