Preterism, I can't believe it!

Kokujin · Post by **Kokujin** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:52 pm

I found an article on Raptureready.com and the guy seems pretty knowlagable. Anyway, heres what he had to say.

"One of my key reasons for believing in the pre-tribulation rapture is the fact all other views are always trying to undermine pre-tribulationism. Up until now, the most vocal group of opponents has been the post-trib and pre-wrath folks. I'm amazed to find preterism now on the attack, gaining ground by mostly converting pre-tribbers.

What is preterism? This theory argues that all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled; it states that nothing remains on the prophetic calendar. According to preterism, events like the rise of the Antichrist, the tribulation, the rapture, and the Day of the Lord all took place around 70 AD, the year the Romans invaded Jerusalem and destroyed the second Temple.

I just cannot understand how anyone can follow a preterist line of thinking in light of current world events. As in many cases, pride is one of the most common reasons people begin following doctrinal error. They believe that they are part of a special group that has discovered a hidden truth. Never mind the fact that millions of people have joined them in supporting their folly.

Up until now, I've largely been ignoring preterism because it seemed equivalent to the Flat Earth Society. Well, I can't stand by and watch error run free, so it looks like I'm going to have to add preterism to the list of erroneous rapture views that I need to actively refute.

The heart of this error is based on Jesus' statement that "this generation shall not pass, till all things be fulfilled" (Mat 24:34). It seems easy enough to claim Jesus was speaking about a first-century generation; however, logic ends there when one contemplates the fulfillment of all Bible prophecy.

In order to make 70 AD the magic year, we would have to delete dozens of prophecies that were never fulfilled. When was the Gospel preached to all the nations? When was the Mark of the Beast implemented? What about China's 200-million-man army? When did 100-pound hailstones fall from the sky? And what date was it when the Euphrates River dried up?

The questions are endless. Why did we have the rebirth of Israel? If Jerusalem was forever removed from being the burdensome stone, why has it now returned to that status? When did all the Jews shout, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord," as Jesus said they would?

After being so strict in their interpretation of Matthew 24:34, preterists then run roughshod over many clear statements of Scripture. They say that although the "resurrection" happened in 70 AD, the bodies of Christians were left in the grave.

Preterists take the dangerous step of spiritualizing all passages of Scripture that relate to the nation of Israel, and claim that these refer to the church, the "New Israel." They teach that the "old earth," which Scripture says will pass away, is the Old Covenant. The new heaven and new earth, they say, is the New Covenant, and the "elements," which Scripture says will burn with fervent heat when this happens, are the "elements of the law."

Preterism produces some bizarre explanations for why the world is still experiencing suffering and calamity. One explanation I ran across cited God's need for population control as the reason for mankind's suffering. Here is what one preterist author wrote:

"I believe that people are born and people die. Kingdoms rise and kingdoms fall. God is the providential population controller. He brings famine, disease, natural catastrophes, wars and tumults. One-third of the population of Europe was destroyed by the Black Plague in the early part of this millennium. Eight hundred fifty thousand were killed in the 1556 earthquake in the Shanghai province of China. Two million were killed in World War II. Thirteen million were killed under Stalin and 6 million under Hitler. God is very equipped to control population.""

Scource > http://www.raptureready.com/rr-preterism.html

Fortigurn · Post by **Fortigurn** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:03 pm

You might be interested in the discussion of Praeterism which we're having on this forum here. I'd like to see what you make of it.

jerickson314 · Post by **jerickson314** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:01 pm

I haven't fully made up my mind on preterism, but I will say that the guy on the OP only addresses full preterism, which he actually states the definition of (the idea that all prophesy has been fulfilled). Partial preterism is perhaps more common and is certainly more reasonable. It is the view that certain significant passages - such as the Olivet Discourse - have been fulfilled, while other prophesies - such as those about the final resurrection - have not. The guy in the OP only addresses partial preterism by lumping it with full preterism, a logical fallacy.

Fortigurn · Post by **Fortigurn** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:24 pm

jerickson314 wrote:I haven't fully made up my mind on preterism, but I will say that the guy on the OP only addresses full preterism, which he actually states the definition of (the idea that all prophesy has been fulfilled). Partial preterism is perhaps more common and is certainly more reasonable. It is the view that certain significant passages - such as the Olivet Discourse - have been fulfilled, while other prophesies - such as those about the final resurrection - have not. The guy in the OP only addresses partial preterism by lumping it with full preterism, a logical fallacy.

Personally, I have encountered both. Partial Praeterism isn't much better. I'm dealing with Partial Praeterism on this forum here.

puritan lad · Post by **puritan lad** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:15 am

jerickson314 wrote:I haven't fully made up my mind on preterism, but I will say that the guy on the OP only addresses full preterism, which he actually states the definition of (the idea that all prophesy has been fulfilled). Partial preterism is perhaps more common and is certainly more reasonable. It is the view that certain significant passages - such as the Olivet Discourse - have been fulfilled, while other prophesies - such as those about the final resurrection - have not. The guy in the OP only addresses partial preterism by lumping it with full preterism, a logical fallacy.

Not only does he do this, but he does so intentionally. I have personally offered to debate him numerous time, but he refuses. He know that these statements are untrue, yet continues to post them

They say that although the "resurrection" happened in 70 AD, the bodies of Christians were left in the grave.

the rapture… took place around 70 AD

These are lies and he knows it.

Also, he writes, “The heart of this error is based on Jesus' statement that "this generation shall not pass, till all things be fulfilled" (Mat 24:34), as if we only use one verse. He ignores these…

Matt. 10:23 - "Truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.“

Matt. 16:28 - "Truly I say to you, there are some who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“

Matt. 26:64 - "You [the high priest] will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven."

Rom. 13:11-12 - "You know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed; the night is far gone, the day is at hand."

1 Cor. 7:29-31 - "Brethren, the appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none, and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods, and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the form of this world is passing away."

1 Cor. 10:11 - "On [us] the ends of the ages have come."

Phil. 4:5 - "The Lord is at hand."

James 5:8-9 - "The coming of the Lord is at hand. ... Behold, the Judge is standing at the door."

1 Pet. 4:7 - "The end of all things is at hand."

1 Jn. 2:18 - "It is the last hour ... we know that it is the last hour."

He also can't answer simple questions, like…

Where does the Bible mention a pre-trib rapture?
Where does the Bible mention a third Jewish temple?
Where does the 2,000 year gap in Daniel's 70 week prophecy come from?

In short, he is like many who are in love with the 170 year old doctrine, and tries to discredit other views by spreading untruths.

Kokujin · Post by **Kokujin** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:06 pm

puritan lad wrote: Not only does he do this, but he does so intentionally. I have personally offered to debate him numerous time, but he refuses. He know that these statements are untrue, yet continues to post them.

Hey wait a second, you act like I was the one to write the article. And I "know" that thoes statments are untrue? How can you be so sure of yourself? I'm sorry that I posted this article just for the reason of debunking preterism. I really just want to start a topic for thoes who believe the "END OF TIMES" is soon, if not now. BUT, I can't do that when someone (puritan lad) seems to be SOOO determained to tell us that 99.98% of us christians just all happend to misinterpret revelations. In my opinion, the preterism view is just a theory made by thoes who could not accept the horrifying future of Earth. Granted, you still agree Christ is coming a second time but from what I read in Revelations, all signs indicate The second coming of christ being soon, if not right after tribulation (a time frame that can not be denied and will happen).

puritan lad wrote:In short, he is like many who are in love with the 170 year old doctrine, and tries to discredit other views by spreading untruths.

I would not expect this kind of confidence in anyone but God himself.

bob2010 · Post by **bob2010** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:10 pm

What is preterism? This theory argues that all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled; it states that nothing remains on the prophetic calendar.

why cant they get it that there are two camps in preterism? i get tired of being lumped in with the neohymenaeans.

Two million were killed in World War II.

where did he get that number? try 60 million. i know it really has nothing to do with preterism, but as a rather avid WW2 history buff, thats just shocking. we really need to be teaching our kids more history.

Fortigurn · Post by **Fortigurn** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:45 am

bob2010 wrote:
What is preterism? This theory argues that all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled; it states that nothing remains on the prophetic calendar.
why cant they get it that there are two camps in preterism? i get tired of being lumped in with the neohymenaeans.

So you're a Praeterist? You might be interested in the discussion on this forum here.