Question: What is Math?
- Kurieuo
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Question: What is Math?
I've raised this in a previous thread to do with universals some time ago, but let's focus in on Math.
The following YouTube video asks the question:
"Is Math a Feature of the Universe, or a Feature of Human Creation?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNymweHW4E
I'd be interested in anyone who questions God's existence to watch the video, it's entertaining.
Then think about the question and give your response.
The following YouTube video asks the question:
"Is Math a Feature of the Universe, or a Feature of Human Creation?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNymweHW4E
I'd be interested in anyone who questions God's existence to watch the video, it's entertaining.
Then think about the question and give your response.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
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Re: Question: What is Math?
I’m sorry I didn’t have the patience to listen to the whole thing; I found this guys ramble completely absurd.Kurieuo wrote:I've raised this in a previous thread to do with universals some time ago, but let's focus in on Math.
The following YouTube video asks the question:
"Is Math a Feature of the Universe, or a Feature of Human Creation?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNymweHW4E
I'd be interested in anyone who questions God's existence to watch the video, it's entertaining.
Then think about the question and give your response.
Does math exist? Of course not! Math does not exist by itself, it only exist within the context of human thought; yes humans created math.
It isn’t a coincidence that math is based upon the 10 and humans have 10 fingers. If we had 12 fingers math would be completely different. Math no more exist than numbers exist.
Numbers are representative tokens humans imagine to represent things that actually do exist.
Math is a system humans created to calculate these representative tokens that are used to represent things that do exist.
It's as simple as that.
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
- neo-x
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Re: Question: What is Math?
While I don't use maths as a proof of God or the question of it, there are some pretty strange things out there, for instance the golden ratio? there are universals which are quite hardened in nature and not in human thought alone. In other words I would not be so quick to dismiss it.Kenny wrote:I’m sorry I didn’t have the patience to listen to the whole thing; I found this guys ramble completely absurd.Kurieuo wrote:I've raised this in a previous thread to do with universals some time ago, but let's focus in on Math.
The following YouTube video asks the question:
"Is Math a Feature of the Universe, or a Feature of Human Creation?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNymweHW4E
I'd be interested in anyone who questions God's existence to watch the video, it's entertaining.
Then think about the question and give your response.
Does math exist? Of course not! Math does not exist by itself, it only exist within the context of human thought; yes humans created math.
It isn’t a coincidence that math is based upon the 10 and humans have 10 fingers. If we had 12 fingers math would be completely different. Math no more exist than numbers exist.
Numbers are representative tokens humans imagine to represent things that actually do exist.
Math is a system humans created to calculate these representative tokens that are used to represent things that do exist.
It's as simple as that.
Ken
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.
I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.
//johnadavid.wordpress.com
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Re: Question: What is Math?
Isn't the Golden Ratio another system used to calculate these imaginary representative tokens used in place of things that do exist?neo-x wrote:While I don't use maths as a proof of God or the question of it, there are some pretty strange things out there, for instance the golden ratio? there are universals which are quite hardened in nature and not in human thought alone. In other words I would not be so quick to dismiss it.Kenny wrote:I’m sorry I didn’t have the patience to listen to the whole thing; I found this guys ramble completely absurd.Kurieuo wrote:I've raised this in a previous thread to do with universals some time ago, but let's focus in on Math.
The following YouTube video asks the question:
"Is Math a Feature of the Universe, or a Feature of Human Creation?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNymweHW4E
I'd be interested in anyone who questions God's existence to watch the video, it's entertaining.
Then think about the question and give your response.
Does math exist? Of course not! Math does not exist by itself, it only exist within the context of human thought; yes humans created math.
It isn’t a coincidence that math is based upon the 10 and humans have 10 fingers. If we had 12 fingers math would be completely different. Math no more exist than numbers exist.
Numbers are representative tokens humans imagine to represent things that actually do exist.
Math is a system humans created to calculate these representative tokens that are used to represent things that do exist.
It's as simple as that.
Ken
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
- Jac3510
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Re: Question: What is Math?
These are long, but they are soooooooooooooooooooo worth watching! Craig goes into detail (especially in later lectures) on the philosophy of mathematics. Just amazing stuff.
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
Re: Question: What is Math?
If math exists only in the construct of human thought then how is it that it is not only descriptive but also predictive? How is it that using mathematics we can predict the existence of the Higgs boson decades before its actual discovery in reality?Kenny wrote:Does math exist? Of course not! Math does not exist by itself, it only exist within the context of human thought; yes humans created math.
It isn’t a coincidence that math is based upon the 10 and humans have 10 fingers. If we had 12 fingers math would be completely different. Math no more exist than numbers exist.
Numbers are representative tokens humans imagine to represent things that actually do exist.
Math is a system humans created to calculate these representative tokens that are used to represent things that do exist.
It's as simple as that.
Ken
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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Re: Question: What is Math?
Math didn't predict anything; people using math did.Byblos wrote:If math exists only in the construct of human thought then how is it that it is not only descriptive but also predictive? How is it that using mathematics we can predict the existence of the Higgs boson decades before its actual discovery in reality?Kenny wrote:Does math exist? Of course not! Math does not exist by itself, it only exist within the context of human thought; yes humans created math.
It isn’t a coincidence that math is based upon the 10 and humans have 10 fingers. If we had 12 fingers math would be completely different. Math no more exist than numbers exist.
Numbers are representative tokens humans imagine to represent things that actually do exist.
Math is a system humans created to calculate these representative tokens that are used to represent things that do exist.
It's as simple as that.
Ken
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
- Kurieuo
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Re: Question: What is Math?
Have you been doing Common Core Kenny? (if you didn't understand that, never mind)Kenny wrote:Math didn't predict anything; people using math did.Byblos wrote:If math exists only in the construct of human thought then how is it that it is not only descriptive but also predictive? How is it that using mathematics we can predict the existence of the Higgs boson decades before its actual discovery in reality?Kenny wrote:Does math exist? Of course not! Math does not exist by itself, it only exist within the context of human thought; yes humans created math.
It isn’t a coincidence that math is based upon the 10 and humans have 10 fingers. If we had 12 fingers math would be completely different. Math no more exist than numbers exist.
Numbers are representative tokens humans imagine to represent things that actually do exist.
Math is a system humans created to calculate these representative tokens that are used to represent things that do exist.
It's as simple as that.
Ken
Ken
If everyone thought 2 + 3 = 6 or that that pi was 3.41,
because it's only a construct of human mind then that's what we'd work with.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
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Re: Question: What is Math?
Well, you've outgeeked me phil-theologically Jac. The first one sent me to sleep.Jac3510 wrote:These are long, but they are soooooooooooooooooooo worth watching! Craig goes into detail (especially in later lectures) on the philosophy of mathematics. Just amazing stuff.
Craig did a lot of the work, but then the Buddhist person got up and
As a side, if aseity was a new concept for the guy introducing, then I was wondering while Craig was talking how much the audience would really understand at all. Do you think many would have really connected with what was being discussed? I don't think so, but then it's put online now so... I could follow Craig, but then I wonder how much just sounds like gibberish to others. That's kind of sad in a way.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
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Re: Question: What is Math?
Haha, I had the exact same thought. I was shocked that the idea of aseity was a new concept. I mean, what the heck are those people studying?!?
Anyway, I confess I didn't bother with the Q&As at the end of the sessions. Figured they would be a waste of time, not so much because people ask dumb questions (though they do), but because they ask the wrong ones. I'm far more interested in just hearing Craig's thoughts and letting them stimulate my own. In any case, I think Craig does an excellent job of walking through the various metaphysical approaches to abstract objects generally and to numbers in particular. Anybody who just writes this stuff off by saying, "Numbers don't actually refer to anything" clearly hasn't thought more than two seconds about the question.
Anyway, I confess I didn't bother with the Q&As at the end of the sessions. Figured they would be a waste of time, not so much because people ask dumb questions (though they do), but because they ask the wrong ones. I'm far more interested in just hearing Craig's thoughts and letting them stimulate my own. In any case, I think Craig does an excellent job of walking through the various metaphysical approaches to abstract objects generally and to numbers in particular. Anybody who just writes this stuff off by saying, "Numbers don't actually refer to anything" clearly hasn't thought more than two seconds about the question.
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
Re: Question: What is Math?
Kenny wrote:Math didn't predict anything; people using math did.Byblos wrote:If math exists only in the construct of human thought then how is it that it is not only descriptive but also predictive? How is it that using mathematics we can predict the existence of the Higgs boson decades before its actual discovery in reality?Kenny wrote:Does math exist? Of course not! Math does not exist by itself, it only exist within the context of human thought; yes humans created math.
It isn’t a coincidence that math is based upon the 10 and humans have 10 fingers. If we had 12 fingers math would be completely different. Math no more exist than numbers exist.
Numbers are representative tokens humans imagine to represent things that actually do exist.
Math is a system humans created to calculate these representative tokens that are used to represent things that do exist.
It's as simple as that.
Ken
Ken
You possess this uncanny ability to offer seemingly profound answers while saying absolutely nothing. You are one-of-a-kind Kenny. Oh, wait, that was a mathematical statement, must be a construct of your imagination.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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Re: Question: What is Math?
Do you mind explaining "How is it that using mathematics we can predict the existence of the Higgs boson decades before its actual discovery in reality?"?Byblos wrote:.
Ken is right. Math didn't do anything. Humans did by using it.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU
Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU
Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!
Re: Question: What is Math?
And exactly what point are you (or him) trying to convey?IceMobster wrote:Do you mind explaining "How is it that using mathematics we can predict the existence of the Higgs boson decades before its actual discovery in reality?"?Byblos wrote:.
Ken is right. Math didn't do anything. Humans did by using it.
My point, of course, being that we can take an abstract idea or construct that only exists in the human mind (supposedly, according to ken and you if you agree with him) and then turn it around and use it to predict something that is very concrete and part of the reality we live in. Unless you (and him) want to posit that the reality we live in is also a construct of our mind then you and him, my friends, have a yuuuge (a la Trump) duality problem, don't you.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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Re: Question: What is Math?
Why so cocky, man?Byblos wrote:And exactly what point are you (or him) trying to convey?IceMobster wrote:Do you mind explaining "How is it that using mathematics we can predict the existence of the Higgs boson decades before its actual discovery in reality?"?Byblos wrote:.
Ken is right. Math didn't do anything. Humans did by using it.
My point, of course, being that we can take an abstract idea or construct that only exists in the human mind (supposedly, according to ken and you if you agree with him) and then turn it around and use it to predict something that is very concrete and part of the reality we live in. Unless you (and him) want to posit that the reality we live in is also a construct of our mind then you and him, my friends, have a yuuuge (a la Trump) duality problem, don't you.
Anyway, you paraphrased and elaborated what you said in that one sentence. What I am interested in, is that you give exact example for such a prediction because I don't get it.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU
Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU
Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!
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Re: Question: What is Math?
Yes! Mankind has been formulating ideas, plans, systems, and hypothesis, in his mind and using these plans, systems, ideas and hypothesis to invent, construct, predict, and accomplish things in the part of reality we live in. That’s what separates us from the monkeys!Byblos wrote:And exactly what point are you (or him) trying to convey?IceMobster wrote:Do you mind explaining "How is it that using mathematics we can predict the existence of the Higgs boson decades before its actual discovery in reality?"?Byblos wrote:.
Ken is right. Math didn't do anything. Humans did by using it.
My point, of course, being that we can take an abstract idea or construct that only exists in the human mind (supposedly, according to ken and you if you agree with him) and then turn it around and use it to predict something that is very concrete and part of the reality we live in.
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".