Answering an atheist

[PaulSacramento]

Earlier I said-

"The particular all loving god that Christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all."

How does one distinguish a god who does not intervene no matter what awful thing
is happening from one that does not exist at all?

That is a real question.

Ok, let me see if I can tackle this:
The Christian notion of God does NOT require Him to "intervene" to BE God.
God IS existence, the very fact that there IS ANYTHING AT ALL, that ANYTHING exists, means that God exists.

It's a tricky concept to get your mind around at frist BUT when you realize that God is the creator AND sustainer of all it means that nothing could exist without God.

With me so far?

[Duggie70]

God IS existence, the very fact that there IS ANYTHING AT ALL, that ANYTHING exists, means that God exists.

May I rephrase this to understand correctly?

Existence exists. Therefore God exists.

The fact that you are reading this means that God exists. Atoms exist therefore God exists.

Have I understood this faithfully?

[Byblos]

God IS existence, the very fact that there IS ANYTHING AT ALL, that ANYTHING exists, means that God exists.

May I rephrase this to understand correctly?

Existence exists. Therefore God exists.

The fact that you are reading this means that God exists. Atoms exist therefore God exists.

Have I understood this faithfully?

It's rather the other way around, God exists (or is existence or in more philosophical jargon is pure actuality) therefore physical reality exists (which is a mix of potentiality and actuality). Without a pure actuality devoid of any potential nothing can exist.

[RickD]

Earlier I said-

"The particular all loving god that Christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all."

How does one distinguish a god who does not intervene no matter what awful thing
is happening from one that does not exist at all?

That is a real question.

Nothing more I wish for than to have a constructive conversation with you on the subject. Whatever you think (or I think) transpired between us in the past I can put aside and am willing to even apologize for my part in it. All in an effort to move forward. If you agree and are up for it let me know.

P.S. In case Audie doesn't see this post because she may have me on 'ignore', if I could ask a mod to convey this message to her in private and let me know (also in private) what her decision is.

Byblos,

I quoted you, so in case Audie has you on IG, she can still see what you said.

[Audie]

Earlier I said-

"The particular all loving god that Christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all."

How does one distinguish a god who does not intervene no matter what awful thing
is happening from one that does not exist at all?

That is a real question.

Nothing more I wish for than to have a constructive conversation with you on the subject. Whatever you think (or I think) transpired between us in the past I can put aside and am willing to even apologize for my part in it. All in an effort to move forward. If you agree and are up for it let me know.

P.S. In case Audie doesn't see this post because she may have me on 'ignore', if I could ask a mod to convey this message to her in private and let me know (also in private) what her decision is.

Byblos,

I quoted you, so in case Audie has you on IG, she can still see what you said.

I saw it earlier, thought I'd given it a thanks. It is there now. Again: thanks byb.

[Audie]

Earlier I said-

"The particular all loving god that Christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all."

How does one distinguish a god who does not intervene no matter what awful thing
is happening from one that does not exist at all?

That is a real question.

Nothing more I wish for than to have a constructive conversation with you on the subject. Whatever you think (or I think) transpired between us in the past I can put aside and am willing to even apologize for my part in it. All in an effort to move forward. If you agree and are up for it let me know.

P.S. In case Audie doesn't see this post because she may have me on 'ignore', if I could ask a mod to convey this message to her in private and let me know (also in private) what her decision is.

Any time byb. I'm sorry too. Excitable kind, me.

[Audie]

Earlier I said-

"The particular all loving god that Christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all."

How does one distinguish a god who does not intervene no matter what awful thing
is happening from one that does not exist at all?

That is a real question.

Ok, let me see if I can tackle this:
The Christian notion of God does NOT require Him to "intervene" to BE God.
God IS existence, the very fact that there IS ANYTHING AT ALL, that ANYTHING exists, means that God exists.

It's a tricky concept to get your mind around at frist BUT when you realize that God is the creator AND sustainer of all it means that nothing could exist without God.

With me so far?

Never thought that intervening was a necessity for a god, quite the opposite. I think guided evolution, say, has to be one of the lamest ideas ever.

I dont think "God is existence" is tricky as a concept. I just dont agree.

If you are detecting a god by this method it is indirectly at best. I consider it illusory.

Given that the figuring is correct tho-
How would you detect the distinction between a loving compassionate aspect to this god, when the behaviour seems identical to that of one that does not exist at all?

[PaulSacramento]

How would you detect the distinction between a loving compassionate aspect to this god, when the behaviour seems identical to that of one that does not exist at all?

First off you must understand that God's view and understanding of compassion and love is NOT like ours, for obvious reasons.
As for how we can distinguish between a loving and compassionate God and one that simply IS ?
Christianity solves and answers that question: Jesus Christ.

[Audie]

How would you detect the distinction between a loving compassionate aspect to this god, when the behaviour seems identical to that of one that does not exist at all?

First off you must understand that God's view and understanding of compassion and love is NOT like ours, for obvious reasons.

Seriously, as much as the Christian message is beamed about, a person has to actively try to shut it out, if one is to avoid understanding it.

Not saying this just to be tendentious or provocative, but the supposed behaviour of said God as described in the bible is violent and disproportionate. Kill someone for glancing about; kill babies
for having been born first.

So yeah unacceptable by human standards.

I of course do not accept that there is a god, still less than anyone can provide information about
what such a being can or cannot do, likes, dislikes etc.

As for how we can distinguish between a loving and compassionate God and one that simply IS ?

Actually, you have that backwards from what I said. How do you distinguish a loving god who does nothing, from one who is not there at all?

Christianity solves and answers that question: Jesus Christ

He isnt doing anything either.

[Hortator]

Not saying this just to be tendentious or provocative, but the supposed behaviour of said God as described in the bible is violent and disproportionate. Kill someone for glancing about; kill babies
for having been born first.

I may be able to help you with God's character, but first, which verses are these you are citing?

[Audie]

Not saying this just to be tendentious or provocative, but the supposed behaviour of said God as described in the bible is violent and disproportionate. Kill someone for glancing about; kill babies
for having been born first.

I may be able to help you with God's character, but first, which verses are these you are citing?

Lots wife v Destruction of Sodom; Pharoah v Moses

[PaulSacramento]

He isnt doing anything either.

This is, of course, where you are so very wrong.
See, IF you think that it is, for some reason, God's "job" to fix our messes and take care of us ( and by take care I mean make it so that we don't have any problems and suffering) then NO, God is not doing that and never will because that would NOT be God.
See, a God that dominates and controls and dictates is, logically, one that is INFERIOR to a God that allows for free will and choice and rejecting and love and hate and so forth.
So, by the very nature of being GOD, God can't do what is inferior ( which would be dictating and controlling and overriding free will, etc).
See, you THINK he is not doing anything because he is not doing what YOU THINK He should.
That is NOT the same as not doing anything.

[PaulSacramento]

Not saying this just to be tendentious or provocative, but the supposed behaviour of said God as described in the bible is violent and disproportionate. Kill someone for glancing about; kill babies
for having been born first.

I may be able to help you with God's character, but first, which verses are these you are citing?

Lots wife v Destruction of Sodom; Pharoah v Moses

I thought you didn't believe the bible...

[Audie]

Not saying this just to be tendentious or provocative, but the supposed behaviour of said God as described in the bible is violent and disproportionate. Kill someone for glancing about; kill babies
for having been born first.

I may be able to help you with God's character, but first, which verses are these you are citing?

Lots wife v Destruction of Sodom; Pharoah v Moses

I thought you didn't believe the bible...

I read it as a historical novel. You didnt read my post, for content: the supposed behaviour of said God

As for "believe it" what does that even mean? Serious question.

[abelcainsbrother]

Earlier I said-

"The particular all loving god that Christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all."

How does one distinguish a god who does not intervene no matter what awful thing
is happening from one that does not exist at all?

That is a real question.

Ok, let me see if I can tackle this:
The Christian notion of God does NOT require Him to "intervene" to BE God.
God IS existence, the very fact that there IS ANYTHING AT ALL, that ANYTHING exists, means that God exists.

It's a tricky concept to get your mind around at frist BUT when you realize that God is the creator AND sustainer of all it means that nothing could exist without God.

With me so far?

Never thought that intervening was a necessity for a god, quite the opposite. I think guided evolution, say, has to be one of the lamest ideas ever.

I dont think "God is existence" is tricky as a concept. I just dont agree.

If you are detecting a god by this method it is indirectly at best. I consider it illusory.

Given that the figuring is correct tho-
How would you detect the distinction between a loving compassionate aspect to this god, when the behaviour seems identical to that of one that does not exist at all?

I don't see how you could think like you do,I mean I reject evolution and I have legit reasons why I reject it,however If I did accept evolution? There is noway I could think evolution could get started by nothing,it requires a creator to get it started,and just because science does'nt know how it got started? Does'nt mean we should step out of reality and wait on an answer that has not come forth for 150 years and waiting still.

Here read this Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."