Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
Audie wrote:That is not me, as I dont think a fictional god is likely to do much of anything.
Then perhaps aliens.
Audie wrote:im trying to find out what a believer in a meddler-god thinks his god would do to guide evolution
That is not me, as i dont think a fictional evolution is likely to need much guidance by God.
Audie wrote:I am also not the one who makes up silly nonsense about evolution and presents it as reasons that Toe is false.
The one or ones who when asked to provide a single datum point contrary to ToE find they cannot do so.
That is not me either, what's the point when it all leads back to God anyhow?
If neither of us is here to whom is who talking to?
Speechless in Brisbane. I think there was a movie about that.
Hong Kong Phooey. I think there was a cartoon about that.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
A lot of evolutionary thought simply does not make sense. Even to really intelligent people like me.
And it's Also true that God can create anything He chooses to and through any medium He chooses. He chose to create the way He explained / described in the book of beginnings / Genesis. I simply don't know why That is so hard to understand. An evening and morning is one day. Just like it is Now. Evolution= develop. God simply chose to make the earth habitable from the beginning. Animals developed one generation at a time. There hasn't been any need for anything to develop any more than it already Is. If anything - people have killed off animals -- buffalo have become pretty much extinct due to hunting for their skins.
God created some animals to be able to go from water to land / back and forth. No transitional forms of life -- that's just how they Are.
And, How does something get created Through evolution. Creating is making something from Nothing. No previous materials involved. So -- something would Either be created Or ....... for something to Develop , it has to exist. So how did the 'something' get here in the first place. It's point of Origin.
Thank goodness for really intelligent people like you, crotchet. It means that if you would care to mention any bit of 'evolutionary thought [that] simply doesn't make sense' I will be able to explain to you how it does.
You go on to say that God created the world more or less as it is now, more or less instantaneously, and "don't know why that is so hard to understand." Actually it's not at all hard to understand. I just don't believe it. Can you give me any reason why I should?
Your last paragraph says that "Creating is making Something from Nothing. No previous materials involved." I think every particle of the universe was indeed made from nothing, instantaneously, four billion years ago. Everything that has happened since has simply involved the rearrangement of the particles, not the 'creation' of any new material.
bippy123 wrote:I don't believe that God created from a literal nothing . A material nothing maybe .
Gods thought which he used to create the universe isn't nothing
Exactly so. Why there is something rather than nothing is a profound philosophical question. The 'rules' by which the universe appeared must have been in place in order for it to appear. We can call them "God's thought" (I rather like that) or just God, or, if we don't believe in God, some other metaphysical terminology to suit our ideology. The question then is: can we explain how the rules came to be, simply by examining the rules themselves?
hughfarey wrote:Thank goodness for really intelligent people like you, crotchet. It means that if you would care to mention any bit of 'evolutionary thought [that] simply doesn't make sense' I will be able to explain to you how it does.
You go on to say that God created the world more or less as it is now, more or less instantaneously, and "don't know why that is so hard to understand." Actually it's not at all hard to understand. I just don't believe it. Can you give me any reason why I should?
Your last paragraph says that "Creating is making Something from Nothing. No previous materials involved." I think every particle of the universe was indeed made from nothing, instantaneously, four billion years ago. Everything that has happened since has simply involved the rearrangement of the particles, not the 'creation' of any new material.
Hugh,
As for what I underlined in your post, You mind telling us why you go against the currently accepted believe that the universe is about 13.772 billion years old? Isn't the earth just over 4 billion years old?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Sorry, Rick, sheer carelessness on my part - for the universe fourteen billion, for the solar system, four (point six) billion. Thanks for pointing out the error.
Further to the idea I had earlier, do you think one can derive any information about the characters of the people who devised the rules of, say, football, exclusively from the wording of the rules themselves? I think we may.
Gotta ask this -- when we're talking in the realm of billions of years -- 13.772 instead of 4.6 --- we're talking Billions not Thousands -- that's a LONG time. The universe 14 millions, solor system Only 4.6 Billion. Okay -- maybe my question Is -- since apparently everything started out with amoeba -- certainly the amoeba weren't recording anything taking place. By whose authority do we KNOW those figures are even close to being accurate. I Could go with thousands of years. Simply curious.
Oops -- just caught a mistake -- the 14 millions Should have read Billions. And another question -- whats the difference between the universe and solar system. If they aren't the same, then the one doesn't exist without the other existing?
Questions for Theistic Evolutionists - I have posed some theological questions for the contradictions that appear in Scripture, most particularly Genesis, that contradict evolution, if those Genesis stories are historical facts. If evolution is fact, then those stories cannot be any more than meaningless allegorical tales that could have about any interpretation one desires them to.
hugh --
Actually God Didn't create the world just like it is Now -- mistake on my part. There was a world-wide flood that changed the landscape a great deal. Before that the land was relatively flat compared to now with the Grand Canyon, etc. Back in Genesis 7: 19 and 20. "And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered." vs 11 "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life , in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up , and the windows of heaven were opened. "
Crochet: hugh --Actually God Didn't create the world just like it is Now -- mistake on my part. There was a world-wide flood that changed the landscape a great deal. Before that the land was relatively flat compared to now with the Grand Canyon, etc. Back in Genesis 7: 19 and 20. "And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered." vs 11 "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life , in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up , and the windows of heaven were opened. "
And so crochet references but one possible view. There's another that believe it to have not been global. Here's a version of that view, from Hugh Ross/Reasons to Believe: http://www.reasons.org/articles/explori ... d-part-one
crochet1949 wrote:Oops -- just caught a mistake -- the 14 millions Should have read Billions. And another question -- whats the difference between the universe and solar system. If they aren't the same, then the one doesn't exist without the other existing?
The universe is all space, time and matter. The solar system is the sun and everything that revolves around it, basically.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
