Question was concerning Calvinism by new Member

[B. W.]

Hi JButler, I am posting your comment here so you can ask away...

Thanks Storyteller and B.W. for the warm welcome.

My question was concerning Calvinism. Grew up in a super hyper Calvinist atmosphere in a Reformed congregation which was so far beyond Calvin I didn't know it was Calvinist or who Jean Calvin was until the internet age!!! I left it at 19 and never stepped back inside. I've had various "issues" with the stuff they espoused especially as I began "My Journey Back" when I started paying attention to what the Bible really says...in context.
Bryan has answered my question very well. As I go along I'm sure I'll have more.

My life experience with farming then police career (almost 1/2 of that was forensics/crime scene) I have a lot of insight into the human race, nature, science etc. Which means I have a lot of thoughts and opinions on many things but not so much spiritual until recent years. My story may be interesting and hopefully of help to someone but its way too get into right now.
I feel I struck a gold mine here so you'll probably see some old posts dredged up as I discover them.

Thanks again.

J - I will move this to another thread for others to review....

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 75#p201275

see link

[B. W.]

I see you have been part of the criminal justice law enforcement field.We have something in common!

So welcome aboard the forum.

What is it you are still having issues with regarding your post?
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[RickD]

A Calvinism thread and a Catholicism thread simultaneously.

Who said this forum is boring?

[JButler]

I see you have been part of the criminal justice law enforcement field.We have something in common!

So welcome aboard the forum.

What is it you are still having issues with regarding your post?
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The main one that sent me on a mission to find a good answer was predestination issues. The idea of being created as firewood for hell with no hope of salvation if you're not on the elect list. Just didn't seem to make sense, especially in light of all the scriptural references to God's calling for you to answer the door, etc. All the scriptures calling for your belief and repentance and offering of God's gift of grace to wayward sinners seem quite straightforward in their message. But I've heard these passages are meant only for "the elect" which isn't how it looks to me and I don't believe that.

I've been perusing old threads and I've got my question answered thanks much to Bryan's insight. My wife and I started a formal "disciple"/Bible study last fall, the first time I've done an organized reading of the Bible. I asked God to guide me to proper instruction by whatever/whoever to gain correct understanding and avoid any false ideas. The guidance has been 100% spot on and the Bible began to open up like a new flower!! Almost literally! My eyes were opened to so much about the Bible I really couldn't begin to list the ways. This eye opening lead to question Calvinist theology even more than I had before.

I didn't come here to bash Calvinism but it did play a huge role in my formative years. As such it's rearing back up as I browse through the internet, especially YouTube for good learning. FWIW the church was Dutch Reformed.

RickD......
Well I married a Roman Catholic so it shouldn't be a surprise there's two different threads running! We both left the churches of our youth and went Methodist after we got married. My wife told me was so glad to leave RC and won't go back even friends of hers have tried.

[B. W.]

I see you have been part of the criminal justice law enforcement field.We have something in common!

So welcome aboard the forum.

What is it you are still having issues with regarding your post?
-
-
-

The main one that sent me on a mission to find a good answer was predestination issues. The idea of being created as firewood for hell with no hope of salvation if you're not on the elect list. Just didn't seem to make sense, especially in light of all the scriptural references to God's calling for you to answer the door, etc. All the scriptures calling for your belief and repentance and offering of God's gift of grace to wayward sinners seem quite straightforward in their message. But I've heard these passages are meant only for "the elect" which isn't how it looks to me and I don't believe that.

I've been perusing old threads and I've got my question answered thanks much to Bryan's insight. My wife and I started a formal "disciple"/Bible study last fall, the first time I've done an organized reading of the Bible. I asked God to guide me to proper instruction by whatever/whoever to gain correct understanding and avoid any false ideas. The guidance has been 100% spot on and the Bible began to open up like a new flower!! Almost literally! My eyes were opened to so much about the Bible I really couldn't begin to list the ways. This eye opening lead to question Calvinist theology even more than I had before.

I didn't come here to bash Calvinism but it did play a huge role in my formative years. As such it's rearing back up as I browse through the internet, especially YouTube for good learning. FWIW the church was Dutch Reformed.

RickD......
Well I married a Roman Catholic so it shouldn't be a surprise there's two different threads running! We both left the churches of our youth and went Methodist after we got married. My wife told me was so glad to leave RC and won't go back even friends of hers have tried.

Yes, it is difficult for folks to understand that if God never called out to Adam and Eve then all humanity would be lost.

When God call's, sends forth his Word, this presents a choice when before there was none. God's ability to judge with equity as the Psalmist recorded simply means he sound forth his call to all people despite foreknowing the end result his call will have on anyone all through human history; God calls to all in many manners just as the bible teaches plainly.

His call creates choice, when before there is none. That is what folks fail to see. God is not a slave to human free will but rather shakes it up by his call to 'choose this day whom you will serve.' Without that shake up there would be no wake up. Most Calvinism - Armenian debates get stuck on God being a slave to human choice. God is not. His call challenges us, engages our reason, by creating a choice when before there was none. God already knows the answer of everyone's heart his call has so he still calls to all. In this way, sin is the creatures own doings, not God's.

Rather simple. Also, since it is God's calling out to all people which creates a choice to be made means also that this is solely God's work alone. It is his work. He created the choice. Our response to his call is not a human work but rather a response to His great love shown by Jesus to reject or accept it. Such response is not a human work since it is initiated by God.

Those whom he foreknows will reject him completely, well, he can do whatsoever with them, make them Pharaoh if he wants to make a example out of them to shine forth his will. Nothing wrong with that. His call is just, perfect, his word divides the issues of the heart...

Blessings
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[1over137]

Bryan,

then also God forknew that there would be some folks choosing for him, otherwise he would sacrify His Son in vain.
Your thoughts?

[B. W.]

Bryan,

then also God forknew that there would be some folks choosing for him, otherwise he would sacrify His Son in vain.
Your thoughts?

God knows all things! I think that pretty much sums it up!
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