Yes. Aside from confession which they all do, in fact many popes including the current one frequently and publicly ask us to pray for them.crochet1949 wrote:Do the Popes and Bishops know they are just as fallible as the rest of us?
I totally agree.crochet1949 wrote:No church makes Anyone Infallible.
If your heart so desires.RickD wrote:Note to self:
Baptism saves.
Got it.
Well, those "so-called sources" are SCRIPTURE - a very specific and careful examination of what the Catholic Church teaches vs. what Scripture actually says and clearly reveals to be true. I can see why that might be a problem to those whom are determined to only swallow the Catholic Church koolaid! Because once a person has bought into the belief that there is some asserted/authorized descendancy that can not only break new "Scriptural" ground exists, but that can also clearly CONTRADICT established Scripture (which ended in the 1st Century), then NO Scripture in our Bibles will sway them otherwise.Byblos: As for the rest of the links, I have no interest in debating such topics and even less interest in reading so-called 'sources'.
hasn't everybody ? at this point ?So, ignore the links, if you don't care/if you've already made up your mind.
I didn't miss it. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant. Here, you said:Byblos wrote:If your heart so desires.RickD wrote:Note to self:
Baptism saves.
Got it.
Post edit:
And in case you missed it, here's what I said: "The Catholic church recognizes all forms of baptism as valid including baptism of the heart, by fire, and by desire."
Maybe in Catholicism, being part of the body of Christ, isn't synonymous with being saved. Is that accurate?What does it take to be considered in the body of Christ? Baptism, that's it. Whether or not one must do something to stay in the body of Christ is moot and besides the point. And let's not get bogged down by what baptism is, by water, by immersion, infant, etc. The Catholic church recognizes all forms of baptism as valid including baptism of the heart, by fire, and by desire. In other words the body of Christ most certainly includes those who do not profess to be members of the Catholic Church. In fact, the Church does not make pronouncements one way or the other as to the status of anyone's salvation as this is God's decision and God's alone. The only definitive positive statements the church makes are related to saints. Otherwise, the belief is that ALL can be saved including those who never even heard the Gospel because God's desire can be known through the natural light of reason.
It's fine, really. The subject matter tends to elicit a lot of emotions, as it should. It's all good.EssentialSacrifice wrote:hasn't everybody ? at this point ?So, ignore the links, if you don't care/if you've already made up your mind.
you may love Byblos, as you say, but you sure got a harsh way of talkin it.
Essential, in what way have I personally attacked Byblos? It's not about HIM - or me. My focus is what is the TRUTH, and where is that found - in the teachings of men or in Scripture. Where the teachings of men and tradition contradict Scripture - well, that is were I am directing my criticism. So, instead of responding to the specifics, you're asserting I am attacking Byblos or Catholics PERSONALLY. I think most here know the difference. Yes, the criticism is direct, but I don't believe it to be unfair. And I, along with vast millions of non-Catholics reject these teachings as well - NOT based upon some teachings of their church or referring to some denomination's assertions, but by comparing what the Roman CC teaches as opposed to what Scripture says - HUGE difference. Appealing to a denomination's stance - ANY denomination - would only be to doing what I say that the Catholic Church has done - with likely similar results.Essential: you may love Byblos, as you say, but you sure got a harsh way of talkin it.
Not accurate according to me, no. But that's where we disagree on what it means to be saved. To you it's a one time event. To me it's a prcocess. You of course will call that a works based salvation. I also disagree for nothing I do or can do is without God's graces (didn't I say that's exactly where the conversation will go?)Rick wrote: Maybe in Catholicism, being part of the body of Christ, isn't synonymous with being saved. Is that accurate?
The past participle of the underlined is the contentious point, otherwise it is somewhat accurate.Rick wrote: As you already know, I believe the body of Christ is all believers who have trusted Christ. So to me, your quote says that the Catholic Church recognizes anyone who has been baptized, whichever way, is saved.
Ok. But just for the record, you brought up assurance, not me.Byblos wrote:Not accurate according to me, no. But that's where we disagree on what it means to be saved. To you it's a one time event. To me it's a prcocess. You of course will call that a works based salvation. I also disagree for nothing I do or can do is without God's graces (didn't I say that's exactly where the conversation will go?)Rick wrote: Maybe in Catholicism, being part of the body of Christ, isn't synonymous with being saved. Is that accurate?
The past participle of the underlined is the contentious point, otherwise it is somewhat accurate.Rick wrote: As you already know, I believe the body of Christ is all believers who have trusted Christ. So to me, your quote says that the Catholic Church recognizes anyone who has been baptized, whichever way, is saved.
philip, you read way too much into this. I mean only that your tone in that post was, imo, harsh.philip:
Essential, in what way have I personally attacked Byblos?
Crochet wrote:
RickD.
"what must one do to be saved'?" Very clear in the Bible. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. And 1 Corinthians 15:1-5 or so --- believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day and then was seen amongst various people at various times. According to the Scripture. Obviously I'm paraphrasing -- it's called the gospel in a nutshell.
Nothing in that mentions baptism through Any means. The account of the thieves on the cross being crucified along with Jesus Christ. The one thief acknowledged Jesus Christ - his own need. Jesus Christ , Himself, acknowledged that that very day, they would be in Paradise together. And that thief had No opportunity to be baptized.
