Catholicism Questions

[RickD]

RickD wrote:
Asking someone in the room to pray for her is not necessarily taking the focus off of God.

Byblos wrote:
Then you're not being consistent.

Of course I am. When someone prays to God, seeking His will, one should not "feel" Mary, or smell her presence. That's taking the focus off of God, and putting it on something else.

If a person was praying for someone in a room, and that person took the focus off of God, I'd point that out too. Just like a time I was at a church in Massachusetts when the pastor was praying. A lady started "moaning in the spirit" or whatever she wanted to call it. That took the focus off of the pastor's prayer to God. It was wrong.

RickD wrote:
Prove me wrong. Show me anywhere that scripture says we should pray to anyone but God. Or show me a scriptural basis for praying to dead people, to ask them to intercede.

Byblos wrote:
I would but then the argument shifts to what is considered scripture.

Ah, the extra books that Catholics view as scripture. Yes you're right. I'm afraid I believe in the authority of those books, about as much as I believe in the authority of the CC.

RickD wrote:
Hebrews 7:25 tells me that Christ always lives to make intercession for us. If I have Christ always interceding for me, why on earth would I need Mary?

Byblos wrote:
Why on earth would you need anyone else's prayer? Again, it's a matter of consistency.

I don't "need" anyone else's prayer. But again, asking people to pray for one another is biblical. Asking dead people to pray for us is not.

RickD wrote:
Visions of Mary are all demonic deception, or imaginations in the mind. Period.

Byblos wrote:
That's your (emotional) opinion, nothing more

Emotional? No. It's quite logical, I assure you.

Look. When storyteller brings up these issues, I'm going to tell her how I feel. Some people aren't going to like it. But I have to be honest to her. If I think her "feeling" Mary, is probably in her mind because she wants to feel her, then I'm going to say that.

Then storyteller can take in all the opinions here, along with her own studying, and come to her own conclusion.

I've gone beyond the point of arguing against Catholicism for the sake of arguing. But if someone is searching for the truth on Catholicism, and she's open to see it, then I'm going to help. If it's offensive to some, then so be it.

[Byblos]

RickD wrote:
Asking someone in the room to pray for her is not necessarily taking the focus off of God.

Byblos wrote:
Then you're not being consistent.

Of course I am. When someone prays to God, seeking His will, one should not "feel" Mary, or smell her presence. That's taking the focus off of God, and putting it on something else.

If a person was praying for someone in a room, and that person took the focus off of God, I'd point that out too. Just like a time I was at a church in Massachusetts when the pastor was praying. A lady started "moaning in the spirit" or whatever she wanted to call it. That took the focus off of the pastor's prayer to God. It was wrong.

RickD wrote:
Prove me wrong. Show me anywhere that scripture says we should pray to anyone but God. Or show me a scriptural basis for praying to dead people, to ask them to intercede.

Byblos wrote:
I would but then the argument shifts to what is considered scripture.

Ah, the extra books that Catholics view as scripture. Yes you're right. I'm afraid I believe in the authority of those books, about as much as I believe in the authority of the CC.

RickD wrote:
Hebrews 7:25 tells me that Christ always lives to make intercession for us. If I have Christ always interceding for me, why on earth would I need Mary?

Byblos wrote:
Why on earth would you need anyone else's prayer? Again, it's a matter of consistency.

I don't "need" anyone else's prayer. But again, asking people to pray for one another is biblical. Asking dead people to pray for us is not.

RickD wrote:
Visions of Mary are all demonic deception, or imaginations in the mind. Period.

Byblos wrote:
That's your (emotional) opinion, nothing more

Emotional? No. It's quite logical, I assure you.

Look. When storyteller brings up these issues, I'm going to tell her how I feel. Some people aren't going to like it. But I have to be honest to her. If I think her "feeling" Mary, is probably in her mind because she wants to feel her, then I'm going to say that.

Then storyteller can take in all the opinions here, along with her own studying, and come to her own conclusion.

I've gone beyond the point of arguing against Catholicism for the sake of arguing. But if someone is searching for the truth on Catholicism, and she's open to see it, then I'm going to help. If it's offensive to some, then so be it.

I have no issue whatsoever with your personal opinion.

[EssentialSacrifice]

When I pray, it is ALWAYS to God.

I was praying, asking for guidance about my faith, about Marys role, how I feel about Catholicism. Now, it could be argued that subconcsiously I am willing myself to get a "sign" but I felt something. I have felt a prescence before, I trust my Lord and I believe He is showing me that He is with me, always.

Do I worship Mary? I wouldnt say I do but I appreciate her importance.

There is no one except God for me but Mary is a pretty good role model of how, as a woman, I can love and serve God.

Does that make sense? absolutely perfect sense.

it is your decision to make. no one can make it for you and no can can experience it for you, and everyone's experience is different. there is no need to conform to any idea until you are sure of your direction, let alone take someone's advice so adamant over the Mother of God's participation (personal participation just like yours).

RickD:
Then storyteller can take in all the opinions here, along with her own studying, and come to her own conclusion.

imo, this is the only advice rick gave worth listening to. Most of what he says is unkindly said and without love. Hemakes God sound selfish and vidictive, and imo is wrong. He knows this because of ...If it's offensive to some, then so be it. ... <sigh> so much time, so little love.
follow your heart in love and the test will let you know if you're on the straight and narrow, via all means God makes available. Neither He or His daughter, mother and spouse will lead you to anything but love.

if she wants, you'll keep smelling the roses , if you want.

[RickD]

Byblos wrote:
I have no issue whatsoever with your personal opinion.

And I have no issue with you giving your opinion either. And I'm sure that we both want Storyteller to weigh all the points made, and hopefully come to the most educated decision possible, if she ever decides.

Or, if she's like every other woman, decides, then changes her mind over and over.

[RickD]

RickD:
Then storyteller can take in all the opinions here, along with her own studying, and come to her own conclusion.

ES wrote:
imo, this is the only advice rick gave worth listening to. Most of what he says is unkindly said and without love. He knows this because of ...If it's offensive to some, then so be it. ... <sigh> so much time, so little love.

Unfortunately, sometimes people think that calling out what one thinks is wrong, equals lack of love. That could not be further from the truth ES, and it's a cheap shot.

There are many things we do, that while we don't intentionally mean to offend people, it's just inevitable. Witnessing to unbelievers is inherently offensive. By telling someone Jesus is the only way, they may get offended. By telling a child not to play in the street, may offend him.

By calling someone's lifelong sincerely held beliefs, scripturally wrong, will probably offend. But we are not called to be inoffensive. We are called to preach the truth, in love.

So please don't mistake my desire for storyteller to know the truth about Catholicism, with lack of love.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------looks like ES edited his post after I quoted him. So, here's my reply to his edit.

ES wrote:
follow your heart in love and the test will let you know if you're on the straight and narrow, via all means God makes available. Neither He or His daughter, mother and spouse will lead you to anything but love

Following our heart can be dangerous. Especially without discernment. The God of scripture doesn't have a spouse. The Catholic Mary is not the Mary of the bible. If you or anyone seeks out or listens to anyone claiming to be Mary, the mother of Jesus, I can assure you it's not her. It's either your own imagination, or demonic deception. Demonic deception will try to get you to take your eyes off of God, and onto something else. When we open ourselves up to having communication with "Mary", we are knowingly or unknowingly opening ourselves up to deception. This is a dangerous thing that no believer should mess around with. But thankfully, we have direct access to God, through Christ. And He will give you the discernment to see this, if you only ask Him.

Storyteller,

If this is what you're doing, I hope you seek God's will, and ask Him for discernment in this.

[Philip]

Is it emotional to react to the clear, not only unScriptural and contradictory of Scripture of statements by so many popes, but just look at the hideous and dangerous things they have said, and have done so in speaking as the sovereigns of the CC:

Here's a few beauts by Saint Pope Nicholas I:

Writing to Charles the Bald, to incite him against the King of Lorraine, he said:

"We order you, in the name of religion, to invade his states, burn his cities, and massacre his people, whom we render responsible for the resistance of their bad prince." (Source: ibid., Gihon, p. 242.)

To an envoy from Constantinople, Pope Nicholas said:

"Know, prince, that the vicars of Christ (the popes) are above the judgment of mortals, and that the most powerful sovereigns have no right to punish the crimes of popes, how enormous soever they may be….; for no matter how scandalous or criminal may be the debaucheries of the pontiffs, you should obey them, for they are seated on the chair of St. Peter.

And so here is a listing of other beauties that we are supposed to believe speaks for God on Earth, that various popes have said while speaking in their capacity and official office of papal authority: https://www.worldslastchance.com/end-ti ... mouth.html

Not only does the papacy show a history of tortured schisms, involvement in all manner of pure politics and warfare, but "there was no fixed process for papal selection before 1059. Popes, the bishops of Rome and the leaders of the Catholic Church, were often appointed by their predecessors or secular rulers". (Wikipedia)

Also from Wikipedia: "The lack of an institutionalized process for papal succession was prone to religious schism, and many papal claimants before 1059 are currently regarded by the Church as anti-popes, although most are not. Furthermore, the frequent requirement of secular approval of elected popes significantly lengthened periods of sede vacante and weakened the papacy. In 1059, Pope Nicholas II succeeded in limiting future papal electors to the cardinals with In Nomine Domini, creating standardized papal elections that would eventually evolve into the papal conclave.

How could anyone believe such a tortured history as to the office of Pope, involving 1,000 years of frequent SECULAR/political approval, so many terrible and brutal actions and statements - why would anyone have confidence that political corruption didn't enter into the church and its doctrines? Why would SECULARISTS and heads of state care about leaders and officials of the church - UNLESS, they wanted to use it for political purposes and control of the masses and their money? Just read through that list. Note the "frequent requirement of secular approval of elected popes." This is not anti-Catholic rhetoric - this is undeniable, well-documented HISTORY of the Papacy, the Catholic Church, how its leaders were long selected, and what they did and said. READ it, IF you care to know the truth! Otherwise, keep drinking the Vatican's koolaid, keep reading it's official documents.

First 1,000 years history of the Papacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_sel ... efore_1059

[crochet1949]

The comment was made that if a person Wants to be baptized but Can't that That 'desire' will be enough to satisfy God. Well -- good desires won't get a person their salvation.

Well there you go Rick.

Is that official Catholic doctrine?

Actually -- that's Bible doctrine. Non-denominational.

[Storyteller]

The only person/being/thing/presence I pray to is God. Always, only God. Ever.

I smelt roses, lfelt something. Mary? I don't know but it wasn't demonic. I know that.
God knows me, my heart. I long for a mother. Maybe I just projected that but maybe, just maybe God is saying I can have a mothers love.
I see Mary as a woman who I can love, and aspire to be like in my walk towards Christ.

I have no problem with asking Mary to aid me in my prayers, does she hear me? I don't know but she is the Mother of God

So, no, Mary is not a replacement, or even a comparison to Christ but I won't deny her either.

[Byblos]

The comment was made that if a person Wants to be baptized but Can't that That 'desire' will be enough to satisfy God. Well -- good desires won't get a person their salvation.

Well there you go Rick.

Is that official Catholic doctrine?

Actually -- that's Bible doctrine. Non-denominational.

Imagine that, and she's not even Catholic.

[Storyteller]

On kindle so cant quote properly...

Is it not enough that you accept Christ into your heart as your Saviour, that He died for our sins?

The comment was made that if a person Wants to be baptized but Can't that That 'desire' will be enough to satisfy God. Well -- good desires won't get a person their salvation.

Well there you go Rick.

Is that official Catholic doctrine?

Actually -- that's Bible doctrine. Non-denominational.

[Storyteller]

rick, ES...

I missed your posts...

Guys,
I love you both, dearly.
ES... rick says what he does, bluntly sometimes, precisely because he loves.

rick... ES has shown me nothing but love and passion for his faith, never tried to persuade me, urged me to seek truth.

You both care, and love.

:8

[RickD]

rick, ES...

I missed your posts...

Guys,
I love you both, dearly.
ES... rick says what he does, bluntly sometimes, precisely because he loves.

rick... ES has shown me nothing but love and passion for his faith, never tried to persuade me, urged me to seek truth.

You both care, and love.

:8

Annette,

I understand that. And I have the utmost respect for ES. And even if he did try to persuade you, I understand he's doing it because he cares about you. That's one thing that is evident about ES. He's a very caring person.

[Storyteller]

Want me to be totally honest?

The only persuasion has been from trying to dissuade me from Catholicism.
Not once has ES, or Byblos, tried to convert me. In fact they both told me to research it, talk about it and pray (to God).
They have given me their time, honest opinion and support.

I am reading all of this, pondering, praying and trusting God.

[RickD]

Want me to be totally honest?

The only persuasion has been from trying to dissuade me from Catholicism.
Not once has ES, or Byblos, tried to convert me. In fact they both told me to research it, talk about it and pray (to God).
They have given me their time, honest opinion and support.

I am reading all of this, pondering, praying and trusting God.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm going to be as honest as I can with you. And that may come across as trying to dissuade you from Catholicism. If that's what it is, then I can live with that. But ultimately, it's not a contest where we try to give our sides, and you pick the winner. It's between you and God. If you choose to become a Catholic, or decide not to, then as long as you've made the decision to go with your conscience, and where God is leading you, then so be it. That's all I'd ever expect from anybody.

[Storyteller]

I love you hon x