Local flood, not all humanity killed?

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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by Audie »

Couldnt the birds easily just fly away from a flooded river?
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by RickD »

Audie wrote:Couldnt the birds easily just fly away from a flooded river?
We're possibly talking about an area hundreds of thousands of sq km in size. Not just a flooded river.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by Audie »

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:Couldnt the birds easily just fly away from a flooded river?
We're possibly talking about an area hundreds of thousands of sq km in size. Not just a flooded river.
It be what I been wonderin' , what could you posdibly be talking about?

Describe svp the actual area involved?
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by abelcainsbrother »

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by RickD »

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:Couldnt the birds easily just fly away from a flooded river?
We're possibly talking about an area hundreds of thousands of sq km in size. Not just a flooded river.
It be what I been wonderin' , what could you posdibly be talking about?

Describe svp the actual area involved?
Nobody knows the actual area. One theory is that the Mesopotamian basin was the area.

Others think it was where the Caspian Sea is today.
http://www.oldearth.org/articles/flood_location.htm
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by Audie »

Nothing to falsify
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by RickD »

Audie wrote:Nothing to falsify
See, you can be reasonable.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by PaulSacramento »

RickD wrote:What I guess I'm looking to find out, is if the only people to die in the flood were restricted to a local flood area, and there were others throughout the globe that weren't affected, what does that do theologically, if anything?
What do you mean theologically?
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by Audie »

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:Nothing to falsify
See, you can be reasonable.
Can you (not) be tiresome?
Last edited by Audie on Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by RickD »

PaulSacramento wrote:
RickD wrote:What I guess I'm looking to find out, is if the only people to die in the flood were restricted to a local flood area, and there were others throughout the globe that weren't affected, what does that do theologically, if anything?
What do you mean theologically?
What I'm asking is what the ramifications are theologically, if only the line of Adam died in the flood. For those who believe there were preexisting modern humans throughout the globe at the time of the flood that weren't affected, what's the message/meaning of the flood narrative?

For comparison, some young earthers think the gospel is compromised if there was death before the fall. If Noah's flood didn't kill all of humanity, does that do anything to the gospel? Or does it do anything at all for that matter?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Audie
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by Audie »

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:Couldnt the birds easily just fly away from a flooded river?
We're possibly talking about an area hundreds of thousands of sq km in size. Not just a flooded river.
It be what I been wonderin' , what could you posdibly be talking about?

Describe svp the actual area involved?
Nobody knows the actual area. One theory is that the Mesopotamian basin was the area.

Others think it was where the Caspian Sea is today.
http://www.oldearth.org/articles/flood_location.htm

Wherein I find this bit of weirdness..

1. The basin has no geological deposits which would qualify as flood deposits.5 Morton himself answers this in another of his articles. In critiquing the Mesopotamian flood scenario, Morton states that "To completely erode flood sediments takes more than 20,000 years. In the progressive creationist time frame for the flood, it could not have occurred prior to 35,000 years ago. Most likely it was about 50,000 years ago. Thus, we have twice the amount of time that Morton allows for completely eroding away any flood sediments. Given this vast amount of time, we cannot expect to find any flood sediments from Noah's Flood.
-

Anything you notice about that?
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by PaulSacramento »

RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
RickD wrote:What I guess I'm looking to find out, is if the only people to die in the flood were restricted to a local flood area, and there were others throughout the globe that weren't affected, what does that do theologically, if anything?
What do you mean theologically?
What I'm asking is what the ramifications are theologically, if only the line of Adam died in the flood. For those who believe there were preexisting modern humans throughout the globe at the time of the flood that weren't affected, what's the message/meaning of the flood narrative?

For comparison, some young earthers think the gospel is compromised if there was death before the fall. If Noah's flood didn't kill all of humanity, does that do anything to the gospel? Or does it do anything at all for that matter?
I don't think there is any doctrine that is based on the flood being a global event...
Or any doctrine based on the flood at all ( other than the covenant with Noah).
I mean, the lesson of the flood is that God WILL punish those that do not repent and WILL save those that do, even if it means punishment for MANY and salvation for few.
I don't think the lesson changes if the flood is local VS global.
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by RickD »

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:Couldnt the birds easily just fly away from a flooded river?
We're possibly talking about an area hundreds of thousands of sq km in size. Not just a flooded river.
It be what I been wonderin' , what could you posdibly be talking about?

Describe svp the actual area involved?
Nobody knows the actual area. One theory is that the Mesopotamian basin was the area.

Others think it was where the Caspian Sea is today.
http://www.oldearth.org/articles/flood_location.htm

Wherein I find this bit of weirdness..

1. The basin has no geological deposits which would qualify as flood deposits.5 Morton himself answers this in another of his articles. In critiquing the Mesopotamian flood scenario, Morton states that "To completely erode flood sediments takes more than 20,000 years. In the progressive creationist time frame for the flood, it could not have occurred prior to 35,000 years ago. Most likely it was about 50,000 years ago. Thus, we have twice the amount of time that Morton allows for completely eroding away any flood sediments. Given this vast amount of time, we cannot expect to find any flood sediments from Noah's Flood.
-

Anything you notice about that?
Considering that I have no idea how long it takes for flood deposits to erode, no.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Audie
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by Audie »

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote: We're possibly talking about an area hundreds of thousands of sq km in size. Not just a flooded river.
It be what I been wonderin' , what could you posdibly be talking about?

Describe svp the actual area involved?
Nobody knows the actual area. One theory is that the Mesopotamian basin was the area.

Others think it was where the Caspian Sea is today.
http://www.oldearth.org/articles/flood_location.htm

Wherein I find this bit of weirdness..

1. The basin has no geological deposits which would qualify as flood deposits.5 Morton himself answers this in another of his articles. In critiquing the Mesopotamian flood scenario, Morton states that "To completely erode flood sediments takes more than 20,000 years. In the progressive creationist time frame for the flood, it could not have occurred prior to 35,000 years ago. Most likely it was about 50,000 years ago. Thus, we have twice the amount of time that Morton allows for completely eroding away any flood sediments. Given this vast amount of time, we cannot expect to find any flood sediments from Noah's Flood.
-

Anything you notice about that?
Considering that I have no idea how long it takes for flood deposits to erode, no.

Recognizing you've had no geology, you can still use a little thought.
"Flood deposits" could dry to a fine film of dust that blows away in minutes,
or it could involve boulders, and potentially last more or less forever.

The flood deposits along the Tibris Euphrates valley that have been cited as
evidence for a Noah flood are layered deposits, from successive floods. The
deeper they get buried, the less they seem inclined to erode away.

There are to be found various sorts of "flood deposits" in strata many tens of millions of years old.

The 20K figure has no basis.

ALSO, as the flood deposit in question would be at the bottom of a lake, how
could it erode away?

Saying we cannot expect to find sediments from the flood is correct, but not for the reason given. Well, I guess some do expect to find them. But they never do.

For those who like a world wide flood, there is no world wide "flood" marker.

Sure it would disappear in some places, others it would be there like it was yesterday.

There is no indication that the Caspian Sea suddenly flooded at any appropriate date.

I'd imagine people have done sediment cores aplenty there, as it is an oil producing area.

The Black Sea would have shown a fairly rapid rise in level at the end of the last ice age, but not at any dramatic rate. As the Mediterranean rose, it
overtopped the high point on the channel, and water would have poured over at high tide, then steadily, months or years later.

There are buried houses from the old lake shore. But one scarcely could have needed a boat to get away from such a leisurely flood.
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Re: Local flood, not all humanity killed?

Post by RickD »

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
It be what I been wonderin' , what could you posdibly be talking about?

Describe svp the actual area involved?
Nobody knows the actual area. One theory is that the Mesopotamian basin was the area.

Others think it was where the Caspian Sea is today.
http://www.oldearth.org/articles/flood_location.htm

Wherein I find this bit of weirdness..

1. The basin has no geological deposits which would qualify as flood deposits.5 Morton himself answers this in another of his articles. In critiquing the Mesopotamian flood scenario, Morton states that "To completely erode flood sediments takes more than 20,000 years. In the progressive creationist time frame for the flood, it could not have occurred prior to 35,000 years ago. Most likely it was about 50,000 years ago. Thus, we have twice the amount of time that Morton allows for completely eroding away any flood sediments. Given this vast amount of time, we cannot expect to find any flood sediments from Noah's Flood.
-

Anything you notice about that?
Considering that I have no idea how long it takes for flood deposits to erode, no.

Recognizing you've had no geology, you can still use a little thought.
"Flood deposits" could dry to a fine film of dust that blows away in minutes,
or it could involve boulders, and potentially last more or less forever.

The flood deposits along the Tibris Euphrates valley that have been cited as
evidence for a Noah flood are layered deposits, from successive floods. The
deeper they get buried, the less they seem inclined to erode away.

There are to be found various sorts of "flood deposits" in strata many tens of millions of years old.

The 20K figure has no basis.

ALSO, as the flood deposit in question would be at the bottom of a lake, how
could it erode away?

Saying we cannot expect to find sediments from the flood is correct, but not for the reason given. Well, I guess some do expect to find them. But they never do.

For those who like a world wide flood, there is no world wide "flood" marker.

Sure it would disappear in some places, others it would be there like it was yesterday.

There is no indication that the Caspian Sea suddenly flooded at any appropriate date.

I'd imagine people have done sediment cores aplenty there, as it is an oil producing area.

The Black Sea would have shown a fairly rapid rise in level at the end of the last ice age, but not at any dramatic rate. As the Mediterranean rose, it
overtopped the high point on the channel, and water would have poured over at high tide, then steadily, months or years later.

There are buried houses from the old lake shore. But one scarcely could have needed a boat to get away from such a leisurely flood.
Audie,

Why debate something that never happened? Could I ever convince you that a flood happened that fits any biblical interpretation of Noah's flood?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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