European Churches Claim Muslims Are Converting to Christianity

[Katabole]

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/eur ... ailsignout

A growing number of Muslim refugees in Europe are converting to Christianity, according to churches, which have conducted mass baptisms in some places.

Reliable data on conversions is not available but anecdotal evidence suggests a pattern of rising church attendance by Muslims who have fled conflict, repression and economic hardship in countries across the Middle East and central Asia.

Complex factors behind the trend include heartfelt faith in a new religion, gratitude to Christian groups offering support during perilous and frightening journeys, and an expectation that conversion may aid asylum applications.

At Trinity church in the Berlin suburb of Steglitz, the congregation has grown from 150 two years ago to almost 700, swollen by Muslim converts, according to Pastor Gottfried Martens. Earlier this year, churches in Berlin and Hamburg reportedly held mass conversions for asylum seekers at municipal swimming pools.

The Austrian Catholic church logged 300 applications for adult baptism in the first three months of 2016, with the Austrian pastoral institute estimating 70% of those converting are refugees.

At Liverpool’s Anglican Cathedral in the UK, a weekly Persian service attracts between 100 and 140 people. Nearly all are migrants from Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere in central Asia.

One in four confirmations conducted by the bishop of Bradford, Toby Howarth, over the past year were of converts from Islam. Most were Iranian and most of those were asylum seekers.

Mohammad Eghtedarian, a curate at Liverpool Cathedral and a refugee from Iran who converted to Christianity and was later ordained, said the church was helping people to develop their faith and to apply for refugee status. “These two are intertwined. Most people apply for asylum on the basis of their religion,” he said.

His own journey, from the Iranian city of Shiraz to the UK, took him through half a dozen European countries, by truck, train and on foot. Destitute and terrified, he was offered practical and emotional support from Christians along the way.

Before being granted asylum, Eghtedarian spent four months in Tinsley House detention centre, near Gatwick airport. “Every day was challenging and beautiful. Challenging because I didn’t know if they would deport me; beautiful because I was in the Lord’s hands. I promised the Lord: if you release me, I will serve you.”

Now he devotes himself to helping other refugees. “People are desperate. They spend a lot of money and waste a lot of money. They are vulnerable, abused and sometimes [they have been] raped.” The experience of being a refugee was degrading and dehumanising, he said.

Johannes, another Iranian, left Tehran for Vienna. Born into a Muslim family, the 32-year-old – who was previously called Sadegh – began questioning the roots of Islam at university. “I found that the history of Islam was completely different from what we were taught at school. Maybe, I thought, it was a religion that began with violence?

Related: Converts or not, letting them in is the Christian thing to do | Giles Fraser

“A religion that began with violence cannot lead people to freedom and love. Jesus Christ said ‘those who use the sword will die by the sword’. This really changed my mind.”

Johannes began the process of converting to Christianity in Iran. He was ambushed with a group of others leaving a bible class but managed to escape and went into hiding. When the Austrian visa he had already applied for came through, he left the country.

Now waiting for the outcome of his asylum application, he has not told his parents of his conversion: only his sister knows his “secret”.

Related: Where in the world is the worst place to be a Christian?

Authorities say there are about 90,000 Christians in Iran, though some human rights organisations put their number as high as 500,000. While Iranian law does not order the death penalty for converting from Islam to another faith, courts have handed down death sentences based on interpretation of Sharia law and legal opinions issued by religious leaders.

Last year, the Austrian bishops’ conference published new guidelines for priests, warning that some refugees may seek baptism in the hope of improving their chances of obtaining asylum.

“Admitting persons for baptism who are during the official procedure classified as ‘not credible’ leads to a loss in the church’s credibility across the whole of Austria,” the new guidelines say.

Since 2014, applicants interested in converting to Christianity with the Austrian church have to go through a one-year “preparation period” during which they are informally assessed. “There has to be a noticeable interest in the faith that extends beyond merely the wish to obtain a piece of paper,” said Friederike Dostal, who coordinates preparation courses in Vienna’s archdiocese.

“We are not interested in proforma Christians. You have to be able to register some kind of process of change in people.” In 5-10% of cases, she said, applicants broke off their course before they were baptised.

a difficult road to navigate, he said. “We have a mission to give them the message of Christ – a message of peace, salvation and freedom. The only person who knows what’s in people’s hearts is God. It is not for me to judge.”

At Liverpool Cathedral, there is an established process. People are registered when they first come to church in case evidence of attendance is needed for an asylum application. That may be followed by five sessions of baptism preparation and 12 sessions of confirmation preparation. “This way we get to know them and see how they’re involved in the life of the church,” said Eghtedarian.

If necessary the church will provide a “letter of attendance” for the immigration authorities and support them through the appeals process.

Related: 'Love has no religion': priests and pastors reach out to refugees

Asked if some people pretended to convert to Christianity in order to help their asylum applications, Eghtedarian said: “Yes, of course. Plenty of people. I do understand there are a lot of mixed motives. There are many people abusing the system – I’m not ashamed of saying that. But is it the person’s fault or the system’s fault? And who are they deceiving? The Home Office, me as a pastor, or God?”

Abuse took many forms, he added. “Don’t people abuse the tax system or the NHS? Look at MPs. And look at people who go to church to get their children into good church schools. Is there any difference, morally? You want to find the best school for your child, we want to find the best life for ourselves.

“We still try our best to serve people. Jesus Christ knew Judas was going to betray him but he still washed his feet. Thank God it is not my job to judge them.”

The Church of England does not collate figures on conversion. “This can be a delicate issue and we want to be sensitive to the backgrounds that people are from,” said Howarth.

“There are many reasons [for conversion] but among them is undoubtedly the mass movement of people and the increasing interconnectedness of the world,” he said. Conversions were happening across different faiths, he added, citing the example of black prisoners converting to Islam. “The world– and people’s identities – are being shaken up.

“When we do confirmations, we work hard to make sure the person is serious. We all have mixed motives. But if someone says ‘I believe this’, who are we to make windows into people’s souls? The only thing I can do is see if people are still there a year later – and often they are.”

[B. W.]

Though we celebrate those who find the real Jesus and follow him, the numbers alluded too by attendance in the articles are merely a fraction of actual Muslims in Europe and in no way serves to justify to keep allowing them into any non-Muslim country due to the Islamic long standing practice of invasion by migration.

Let's not forget that...

is the best course of action a country must take. However the naivety of the liberal left is amazing because national suicide is not good...
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[Hortator]

Put Islam and Christianity next to each other in a neutral, secular secular setting (Europe), and see which one people choose. A bit of good news in that part of the world, thanks for sharing.

is the best course of action a country must take. However the naivety of the liberal left is amazing because national suicide is not good...
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Taqiyya, my friend. Taqiyya. There is nothing on this earth that can stop Islam. Which is why the answer is found elsewhere, beyond this earth....

[crochet1949]

The real answer is found in Christ and Him, alone. God knows our hearts.

When someone approaches us and asks if we believe in God -- what Will we say. We Might find ourselves with Christ the next moment. Or we Might find ourselves with a new best friend here on earth.

Nothing on this earth can stop Islam -- but God changes the heart.

[edwardmurphy]

Though we celebrate those who find the real Jesus and follow him, the numbers alluded too by attendance in the articles are merely a fraction of actual Muslims in Europe and in no way serves to justify to keep allowing them into any non-Muslim country due to the Islamic long standing practice of invasion by migration.

Let's not forget that...

is the best course of action a country must take. However the naivety of the liberal left is amazing because national suicide is not good...
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Huh...

Up to this point you've consistently claimed that any actions taken by even a tiny percentage of Muslims are representative of Islam as a whole, but now you've suddenly reversed course. What's that about?

[abelcainsbrother]

Though we celebrate those who find the real Jesus and follow him, the numbers alluded too by attendance in the articles are merely a fraction of actual Muslims in Europe and in no way serves to justify to keep allowing them into any non-Muslim country due to the Islamic long standing practice of invasion by migration.

Let's not forget that...

is the best course of action a country must take. However the naivety of the liberal left is amazing because national suicide is not good...
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Huh...

Up to this point you've consistently claimed that any actions taken by even a tiny percentage of Muslims are representative of Islam as a whole, but now you've suddenly reversed course. What's that about?

Now ed when we must expect Islamic terrorism in America because you liberals have allowed these Syrian muslim refugees to come in by the truckloads and we must expect to see Americans killed by these attacks that the FBI has been warning about only to be ignored by liberals.Our liberal politicians ignored the FBI and after the FBI had already warned that we have sleeper cells in America and should expect to see Islamic terrorist attacks they ignored them and flooded our country with even more muslims.

And then on top of this we have an open border right now where Obama has told the border security to stand down but Islamic terrorists can come right accross the border too just like Mexicans or whoever.And even if the border security captures them,they are released.It is asking to be attacked and after all of the terrorist attacks we've seen and have been stopped thankfully but now we can expect to see them even more than before.It is innevitable and I don't want to hear you liberals blame it on Trump.Because we have terrible leaders in the government that are setting America up for them right now .

You liberals are going to have to eat your crow because it is going to get worse until it gets better and we have to ban all Muslim immigration until we can figure out why we see Islamic Terrorist attacks everywhere Muslims live in the world.Then we will round up Muslims and deport them,but its going to get worse before it gets better. Our leaders should be ashamed of themselves setting America up for future Islamic terrorist attacks for political purposess like Europe did.

Now I'm not a doom and gloomer and I'm not going to live my life in fear but I do understand the danger politicians are putting us in. And when we see future Islamic terrorist attacks in America I'm going to be reminding people who were naive about how dangerous it is to allow Muslims to come into your country.We don't have this problem with any other religion or faith,only where Muslims live in the world do we see Islamic terrorist attacks and it makes no difference what country it is and we are not going to take a chance like you liberals want to.We are not suicidal and we are not going to punish our country because of past wrongs or whatever,instead we are going to do everything we can to keep America safe from Islamic terrorism.It is not fear or hate,it is wise based on what Muslims do where ever they live.It is not hate for Muslims it is simply protecting our country and keeping it safe from Islamic terrorism. We will eventually have a way of properly vetting Muslims that want to come to America,but we don't have that kind of system now.

[SoCalExile]

Found this rather contradictory:

Since 2014, applicants interested in converting to Christianity with the Austrian church have to go through a one-year “preparation period” during which they are informally assessed. “There has to be a noticeable interest in the faith that extends beyond merely the wish to obtain a piece of paper,” said Friederike Dostal, who coordinates preparation courses in Vienna’s archdiocese.

“We are not interested in proforma Christians. You have to be able to register some kind of process of change in people.” In 5-10% of cases, she said, applicants broke off their course before they were baptised.

a difficult road to navigate, he said. “We have a mission to give them the message of Christ – a message of peace, salvation and freedom. The only person who knows what’s in people’s hearts is God. It is not for me to judge.”

So he can't judge but he judges. How about he simply stick to the gospel and cut the country-club churchianity crap?

[B. W.]

Now look at this headline...

Feds spend nearly $20,000 to settle every refugee

Includes cash, welfare, foodstamps, medicaid, housing, etc...

There are approx 90 million Americans who have dropped out of the work force - can't find jobs yet these folks will find jobs....

Here is the Liberal progressive justification behind mass migration: fairness

To understand their idea of fairness let me use a bit of sarcasm to explain:

Europeans migrated from Europe and destroyed native population so it is only a matter of social justice that their decedents of white privileged get retributive payback because only Caucasian people can be racist because no other person of color can be racist - only Caucasian people (are).

Therefore, these illegal and Muslim immigrants will make a great voting block to promote the above by legal fiat of new rules... thus America will be fundamentally transformed into a third world dictatorship and or at least into nothing special, set up for destruction or ??? Its demise will be payback to the world for the evils of America. That is the Fairness of social justice of redistribution.

This is national suicide - we do have Iscariot's in this nation and in the white house, education system, halls of Govt too.

Liberals will not escape what they have done to this nation. They too will see their children's way of life and their own cease.

Will America survive?
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[Philip]

No doubt, by being given their freedom, and without fear in the west to pursue it, many Muslim immigrants will undoubtedly be attracted to the teachings of Christ. But many Muslims wanting to come here are also using whatever box they check for "religion _________ as a tool to get accepted in whatever Western country that will have them. Also, I cynically see mass Muslim conversions in churches as likely suspect - perhaps as a way to blend in, to help eradicate Muslim prejudice that they would likely otherwise receive.

[edwardmurphy]

B.W., the best thing you can do for Christianity, the conservative movement, or the nation as a whole is stop talking. The absolute last thing any cause needs is a vocal lunatic working for its advancement. Guilt by association, y'know?

Come to think of it, if you have a blog or something I'd love to link it on my Facebook account.

[Hortator]

Just want to bring up a thread that is parallel to the discussion happening here already: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 30&t=40925

A lot of this has already been discussed, gentlemen and ladies. Some of us get weary of reading the same thing multiple times on this website, or in the case of this poster, thousands of times on other websites and media.

[SoCalExile]

Just want to bring up a thread that is parallel to the discussion happening here already: //discussions.godandscience.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=40925

A lot of this has already been discussed, gentlemen and ladies. Some of us get weary of reading the same thing multiple times on this website, or in the case of this poster, thousands of times on other websites and media.

[B. W.]

B.W., the best thing you can do for Christianity, the conservative movement, or the nation as a whole is stop talking. The absolute last thing any cause needs is a vocal lunatic working for its advancement. Guilt by association, y'know?

Come to think of it, if you have a blog or something I'd love to link it on my Facebook account.

What part pf sarcasm do you not understand?

No, I do not have a blog for you to link too - no time for that kind of thing and if I did, it would not be about politics...

And ED, Christians should not stop talking because to force us to is to deny our right of free speech.

Again thank you for helping to expose one of the goals of the left - silence Christianity!

Have a nice day
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[edwardmurphy]

What part pf sarcasm do you not understand?

That's good stuff.

No, I do not have a blog for you to link too - no time for that kind of thing and if I did, it would not be about politics...

That's a shame. I feel like the militant atheist community would really have enjoyed sharing your ideas.

And ED, Christians should not stop talking because to force us to is to deny our right of free speech.

Again thank you for helping to expose one of the goals of the left - silence Christianity!

As usual, I'm not talking to Christians, I'm talking to you, or perhaps to everyone out there who thinks they can further their pet causes by spewing hyperbolic nonsense. If my goal was to damage the credibility of Christianity, social conservatives, or whatever else you stand for I wouldn't try to muzzle you, I'd give you a megaphone.

[abelcainsbrother]

Liberals like Ed are naive about Islamic terrorist attacks.But just as I've said earlier we can expect more Islamic terrorist attacks in the US because Obama and our government has ignored the FBI about how there are Islamic terrorist sleeper cells in America and they could strike out at anytime,our government ignored these warnings and are flooding our country with more Muslims and people like Ed think we who are not naive are fear-mongering about it and exxagerating the threat we face and it is no big deal.And yet just this morning in Florida we had the worst Islamic terrorist attack in America since 911 where a hundred of people were shot with 53 dead in a mass shooting in Florida in a Gay night club ( remember how liberals think they won't attack them if they are nice to Muslims?) just like in France last year. So eat your crow Ed.

https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2 ... ed-by-fbi/