Questions about the bible !

[abelcainsbrother]

Killing My Suffering With His Son
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkGP5FSGsQU

[Kurieuo]

Two threads I'll direct you to Alex:

#1 The Foolishness of Many Non-believers to just give you a heads up and how you appear to many here. Be offended if you like, just saying. You ought to own some responsibility for this in your manner.

Then #2 Nature of Reality: A Challenge to Atheists. Of course, you could just take your Atheism, or whatever beliefs you have, based upon the nothingness of just trying knocking other peoples pieces on the table off.

You too, need to justify whatever it is you believe or reject as a belief. Criticising and replacing with nothing gets you nowhere, but rather seen as someone with a chip on their shoulder.

[Hortator]

So this guy is basically Audacity version 1.1? Re-released with very few changes?

edit: more like 0.9v. This alex troll can't get to 4 pages without his topic hitting a brick wall. Good ol' Audacity had his first thread get to 5 pages of acrimony before Jac, the most reasonable man you'll ever talk to, actually had to put his foot down. It was wild to watch, and I'll never forget this little gem from him:

What you need, my misguided friend, is not an argument. It's a counselor. And no, I'm not being snarky or mean. I'm telling you an honest truth. Your reactions here speak to a much deeper, visceral response that are rooted in some negative experiences you've had. And I'm sorry for that.

Best exposure of an atheist I ever saw.

[abelcainsbrother]

Don't Be Fooled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsSWZ7VRDxI

[alexXcJRO]

-->Hortatoredit:" o this guy is basically Audacity version 1.1? Re-released with very few changes?
more like 0.9v. This alex troll can't get to 4 pages without his topic hitting a brick wall."

You're babbling nonsense. I came back every time with a more polished arguments.I didn't hit any wall.
In the latest posts everyone started mostly to deviate from the original questions and start talking about me being a an atheist or a troll or sending me links with videos that are nor related with what i asked and that i can't watch in my country instead of answering and bringing contra-arguments.

Let me put it more clearly this post wasn't about the Existence of God in general or about atheism.It was about the bible presenting some non-scientific and illogical concepts and facts.That's it.Can we go back to the topic, please ?
Also i am not an atheist or a troll just a man asking some question relating to some issues i found in the bible.
For 10 years I believed the bible is true. I never question it. I saw a debate about the bible and started thinking about the arguments brought against it and trying to refute them. But I couldn’t. So i said my approach is not good and correct .So I change it by saying that the bible is nor true or false . And started to analyze different stories and concepts. In a few months I founded more then 20 issues. I talked to many people about these issues ,but nobody gave me proper explanations .The majority of these people(even my own family) got angry and hostile and call me an atheist or that the satan is working through me. It is also hard to argue with people about these issues because there are many kinds of bibles and many kinds of Christian beliefs ,many contrary beliefs about different concepts :forever conscious torment in hell/annihilation, the salvation can be lost /the salvation can’t be lost, creation in the bible according with the science findings/ or not , the things in story of the flood have scientific explanations/it is just a supernatural event with supernatural explanations and so on.

-->PaulSacramento: "Pearls and swine..."
-->RickD :"Mmmmmm....bacon!"
-->Storyteller:"Crispy....."
These shows clearly who is trolling.
You don't seem to very nice and intelligent people. It is like talking to kids. Pfff:(

[abelcainsbrother]

-->Hortatoredit:" o this guy is basically Audacity version 1.1? Re-released with very few changes?
more like 0.9v. This alex troll can't get to 4 pages without his topic hitting a brick wall."

You're babbling nonsense. I came back every time with a more polished arguments.I didn't hit any wall.
In the latest posts everyone started mostly to deviate from the original questions and start talking about me being a an atheist or a troll or sending me links with videos that are nor related with what i asked and that i can't watch in my country instead of answering and bringing contra-arguments.

Let me put it more clearly this post wasn't about the Existence of God in general or about atheism.It was about the bible presenting some non-scientific and illogical concepts and facts.That's it.Can we go back to the topic, please ?
Also i am not an atheist or a troll just a man asking some question relating to some issues i found in the bible.
For 10 years I believed the bible is true. I never question it. I saw a debate about the bible and started thinking about the arguments brought against it and trying to refute them. But I couldn’t. So i said my approach is not good and correct .So I change it by saying that the bible is nor true or false . And started to analyze different stories and concepts. In a few months I founded more then 20 issues. I talked to many people about these issues ,but nobody gave me proper explanations .The majority of these people(even my own family) got angry and hostile and call me an atheist or that the satan is working through me. It is also hard to argue with people about these issues because there are many kinds of bibles and many kinds of Christian beliefs ,many contrary beliefs about different concepts :forever conscious torment in hell/annihilation, the salvation can be lost /the salvation can’t be lost, creation in the bible according with the science findings/ or not , the things in story of the flood have scientific explanations/it is just a supernatural event with supernatural explanations and so on.

-->PaulSacramento: "Pearls and swine..."
-->RickD :"Mmmmmm....bacon!"
-->Storyteller:"Crispy....."
These shows clearly who is trolling.
You don't seem to very nice and intelligent people. It is like talking to kids. Pfff:(

You have not done your research like you claim because all other holy books are wrong when it comes to science. Also we already know 100% of our bible cannot be proven but you are overlooking a whole bunch of evidence that does confirm things the bible said. As a matter of fact the bible blows all other holy books away when it comes to evidence. If you don't believe me put your evidence up against the bible evidence and the bible will have a lot more evidence and especially if you are an atheist bcause they have absolutely no evidence at all,which is why they exclude themselves from needing Any evidence. They are proud of the fact they have absolutely no evidence and make it clear they are excluded from needing evidence for their atheistic and agnostic opinion. They prop their opinion up above everything else though,with no evidence behind it. So you have not done your research. You're just going on what you heard. Also it is normal to have different views the larger the group is.even in science scientists do not all agree and have different competing hypotheisis's about what the evidence is telling us, they have different interpretations too.

[alexXcJRO]

Let's forget about if science and bible meet,about atheism, or which one is a troll or not and let's speak about this one issue
from now on :
3. God both criticised and condone human sacrifice.

First let’s look what human sacrifices meant for the ancient people:
Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a ritual. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history. Victims were typically ritually killed in a manner that was supposed to please or appease gods, spirits or the deceased, for example as a propitiatory offering or as a retainer sacrifice when a king's servants are killed in order for them to continue to serve their master in the next life.
Propitiation (from Latin propitiāre, "to appease;" from propitius, "gracious") is the act of appeasing or making well-disposed a deity, thus incurring divine favor or avoiding divine retribution.

Secondly let’s look at the some bible verses:
“1 This is what the LORD says: “Go and buy a clay jar from a potter. Take along some of the elders of the people and of the priests 2 and go out to the Valley of Ben Hinnom, near the entrance of the Potsherd Gate. There proclaim the words I tell you, 3 and say, ‘Hear the word of the LORD, you kings of Judah and people of Jerusalem. This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Listen! I am going to bring a disaster on this place that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle. 4 For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned incense in it to gods that neither they nor their ancestors nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. 5 They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.“(Jeremiah 19:4-5)
“Abraham Tested
22 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.” “(Genesis 22:1-2)

“Then the Spirit of the LORD came on Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.” 32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break.” …
39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.” (Judges 11:28-34, 39)

Analyzing facts from different chapters and verses of the bible against each other leads to a major contradiction:
a) The bible says God condemned the men in the Valley of Benhinnom for offering their sons as burnt offerings to Baal and said he will never think or do such a thing.
b) The bible says Jephthah gave his virgin daughter who was like a child as a propitiatory offering to God or simply put it offered her as burnt offering to God in exchange for helping him defeat the Ammonites.
c) God taught of testing Abraham by asking him to kill his only son as a burnt offering.
d) God is this perfect being that never is hypocritical and his word is constant across time and space.
Statements a), b), c) and d) are considered true in the bible.

Q: Can all 4 statements be true at the same time?
A: No, it is logically impossible.

[abelcainsbrother]

Let's forget about if science and bible meet,about atheism, or which one is a troll or not and let's speak about this one issue
from now on :
3. God both criticised and condone human sacrifice.

First let’s look what human sacrifices meant for the ancient people:
Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a ritual. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history. Victims were typically ritually killed in a manner that was supposed to please or appease gods, spirits or the deceased, for example as a propitiatory offering or as a retainer sacrifice when a king's servants are killed in order for them to continue to serve their master in the next life.
Propitiation (from Latin propitiāre, "to appease;" from propitius, "gracious") is the act of appeasing or making well-disposed a deity, thus incurring divine favor or avoiding divine retribution.

Secondly let’s look at the some bible verses:
“1 This is what the LORD says: “Go and buy a clay jar from a potter. Take along some of the elders of the people and of the priests 2 and go out to the Valley of Ben Hinnom, near the entrance of the Potsherd Gate. There proclaim the words I tell you, 3 and say, ‘Hear the word of the LORD, you kings of Judah and people of Jerusalem. This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Listen! I am going to bring a disaster on this place that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle. 4 For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned incense in it to gods that neither they nor their ancestors nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. 5 They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.“(Jeremiah 19:4-5)
“Abraham Tested
22 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.” “(Genesis 22:1-2)

“Then the Spirit of the LORD came on Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.” 32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break.” …
39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.” (Judges 11:28-34, 39)

Analyzing facts from different chapters and verses of the bible against each other leads to a major contradiction:
a) The bible says God condemned the men in the Valley of Benhinnom for offering their sons as burnt offerings to Baal and said he will never think or do such a thing.
b) The bible says Jephthah gave his virgin daughter who was like a child as a propitiatory offering to God or simply put it offered her as burnt offering to God in exchange for helping him defeat the Ammonites.
c) God taught of testing Abraham by asking him to kill his only son as a burnt offering.
d) God is this perfect being that never is hypocritical and his word is constant across time and space.
Statements a), b), c) and d) are considered true in the bible.

Q: Can all 4 statements be true at the same time?
A: No, it is logically impossible.

First off you are wrong from the get-go because YHWH was all about animal sacrifices,not human sacrifice. As far as Jepthah,he made a mistake in making a promise to God.It is a lesson we can learn from too,and that is be careful what you promise God. And in Genesis 22 God stopped Abraham at the right time and it was a prophecy about how oneday God would sacrifice his son and provide the lamb to be sacrificed. It happened 2000 years ago when Jesus came,who was the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Jews sacrificed spotless lambs to God.Now put 2 and 2 together.

Genny 22. For you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yFyNEiFHAM

[Hortator]

Lol he's back

[Kurieuo]

Here, this might make him run... it makes me want to...

[alexXcJRO]

-->"First off you are wrong from the get-go because YHWH was all about animal sacrifices,not human sacrifice. As far as Jepthah,he made a mistake in making a promise to God.It is a lesson we can learn from too,and that is be careful what you promise God. And in Genesis 22 God stopped Abraham at the right time and it was a prophecy about how oned ay God would sacrifice his son and provide the lamb to be sacrificed. It happened 2000 years ago when Jesus came,who was the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Jews sacrificed spotless lambs to God.Now put 2 and 2 together."

Let me put it more simply :

"5 They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.“(Jeremiah 19:5)

“Here I am,” he replied.2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.” "(Genesis 22:1-2)

God says in Jeremiah 19:5 that he never in the past mentioned, or even thought of the idea of human sacrifice as burnt offering.But we see clearly in Genesis 22:1-2 that he thought and mention the idea of burnt offering in the past when he asked Abraham to do exactly that.

In the past :God thought and mentions the idea of human sacrifice to Abraham.
In the future :God said he never thought or mention of such things in the past.

This a clear contradiction here that i can't seem to figure out how can one miss it?

[Mallz]

"5 They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

“Here I am,” he replied.2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”

God says in that he never in the past mentioned, or even thought of the idea of human sacrifice as burnt offering.But we see clearly in that he thought and mention the idea of burnt offering in the past when he asked Abraham to do exactly that.

In the past :God thought and mentions the idea of human sacrifice to Abraham.
In the future :God said he never thought or mention of such things in the past.

This a clear contradiction here that i can't seem to figure out how can one miss it?

Are you serious? You need to seriously improve your reading comprehension. Your answer is up there. Per the scriptures (since you obviously need it spelled out), God did not command, nor mention, nor did it enter his mind for 'them' to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal

You aren't even talking intelligently... Are you starting to see how you come off here?

[abelcainsbrother]

-->"First off you are wrong from the get-go because YHWH was all about animal sacrifices,not human sacrifice. As far as Jepthah,he made a mistake in making a promise to God.It is a lesson we can learn from too,and that is be careful what you promise God. And in Genesis 22 God stopped Abraham at the right time and it was a prophecy about how oned ay God would sacrifice his son and provide the lamb to be sacrificed. It happened 2000 years ago when Jesus came,who was the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Jews sacrificed spotless lambs to God.Now put 2 and 2 together."

Let me put it more simply :

"5 They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.“(Jeremiah 19:5)

“Here I am,” he replied.2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.” "(Genesis 22:1-2)

God says in Jeremiah 19:5 that he never in the past mentioned, or even thought of the idea of human sacrifice as burnt offering.But we see clearly in Genesis 22:1-2 that he thought and mention the idea of burnt offering in the past when he asked Abraham to do exactly that.

In the past :God thought and mentions the idea of human sacrifice to Abraham.
In the future :God said he never thought or mention of such things in the past.

This a clear contradiction here that i can't seem to figure out how can one miss it?

No contradiction. You're ignoring that God did not command his people to sacrifice humans to him like other god's. Even when it comes to Abraham he stopped Abraham and Isaac was not sacrificed and it was a prophecy like I explained. You are reading things into it that are not there. You should be bashing Baal instead,not YHWH. You're trying to turn YHWH into a god like Baal. Also religious Jews have never sacrificed babies in a fire to YHWH,this proves that you are interpreting it wrong because Jews would be doing it if God was like that but he is'nt and never has been.

[alexXcJRO]

-->Mallz :"Are you serious? You need to seriously improve your reading comprehension. Your answer is up there. Per the scriptures (since you obviously need it spelled out), God did not command, nor mention, nor did it enter his mind for 'them' to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal
You aren't even talking intelligently... Are you starting to see how you come off here?"

-->belcainsbrother: "No contradiction. You're ignoring that God did not command his people to sacrifice humans to him like other god's. Even when it comes to Abraham he stopped Abraham and Isaac was not sacrificed and it was a prophecy like I explained. You are reading things into it that are not there. You should be bashing Baal instead,not YHWH. You're trying to turn YHWH into a god like Baal. Also religious Jews have never sacrificed babies in a fire to YHWH,this proves that you are interpreting it wrong because Jews would be doing it if God was like that but he is'nt and never has been."

Jeremiah 19:5King James Version (KJV)

"5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:"

You didn't understood what i meant . I didn't said God said to the men in the Valley of Benhinnom to do human sacrifices.
I'll explain again :
1.The bible says God condemned the men in the Valley of Benhinnom for offering their sons as burnt offerings to Baal and said he didn't command, told them to do these vile things and he didn't even think of commanding, and saying to them to do these vile things .
2.The bible says God thought of testing Abraham by asking him to kill his son as burnt offering to him and he did.
3.The bible says Jephthah gave his virgin daughter who was like a child as a propitiatory offering to God or simply put it offered her as burnt offering to God in exchange for helping him defeat the Ammonites.

If God said he didn't even thing of commanding such vile thing to the men in the Valley of Benhinnom why did he thought and commanded such vile thing to Abraham?
If God said offering your son as burnt offerings to Baal is such a vile thing to do , why did he not stop Jepthah from offering his small daughter as a burnt offering in exchange for help he received from God,like he did with Abraham?
Can an all powerful and all loving God in his infinite wisdom be hypocritical ?

Also an omniscient God can't say he didn't thought of something that men might do ,because he knows everything and every thought of every men before every one of them is even born. .

[Kurieuo]

Is God omniscient Alex?