Heard this discussion about a shacked together couple

[swordfish7]

I'll let you cast the first stone swordfish since I'm not without sin myself.

I am not casting stones, but lifting up the biblical standards found in God's word. The problem today is that the church is failing to apply discipline which weakens the church, hurts the sheep and leads to God's judgment against the church.

Furthermore, I'm now legally married to the woman I fornicated with for 8 years and we have four children who God blessed us with. She also became a Christian during our fornicating together, which I'm thankful to God for. God is truly great!

Your comments seem to show a defiance against God's standards, if I don't read your tone wrong. Do you believe the fornication was wrong? I am reminded of Rom. 6:1,2 which says:
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" Another passage is Rom. 8:12-14 which says,
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors - not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God."
Also, Col. 3:5,6 points out that fornication is sin, leading to the wrath of God. Now if a minister advised you to take this action, the responsibility would rest on him. Now, I am so glad that everything worked out and you were able to get married to the woman who fathered your children. God's peace be upon you.

[RickD]

swordfish wrote:
I am so glad that everything worked out and you were able to get married to the woman who fathered your children.

K,

I'm so glad for you, that your wife "fathered" your children too.





I kinda figured that she wore the pants in your relationship.

[swordfish7]

Here is something to consider...

King David...

A man after God's own heart as the bible reveals...

Did God shun King David?

As I stated, there is a context and God's ways are not our ways...

David did confess his sin but he he had consequences the rest of his life. Specifically, he would have the "sword never to depart from his house" where there would be constant friction and even death in his family life and his son would temporarily take the thrown (2 Sam. 12:9-15). Even his child with Bathsheba would die (2 Sam. 12:14). God did bar him from building the temple (1 Chron. 28:3) for his shedding the blood of Uriah. So God did separate David from being the one to build the temple, where that task was given to his son Solomon (2 Chron. 3:1,2).

[swordfish7]

Oops - kinda hard for a mother to father children. I guess my brain is slowing as l get older - the curse of the fall is no fun!

[swordfish7]

Take the "thrown"? Wonder how that works!

[B. W.]

Here is something to consider...

King David...

A man after God's own heart as the bible reveals...

Did God shun King David?

I think both Jac and Kurieuo, in particular, have brung up some valid points reflecting different sides of the same coin.

As for King David, you are right. God didn't shun him because King David was repentant.

But lets not forget the pretty harsh words of Nathan that made King David realise exactly what he had done. Or the heart breaking concequences.

At least some non Christians seem to get confused about God. Is He like the 'mean, cruel, angry' God from the OT or like the 'gentle lamb' Jesus in the NT?

I think the real issue here is of eyes being open to the seriousness of sin, the grace of God, and the fallen state of humanity.

That is the point. You said it so nicely Nessa!

It is all about how God's mercy changes the heart. King David lived a repentant life before God. He was chastened by God, openly, and always changed.

However, when God's mercy is gamed in a manner that shuns or neglects all aspects of heart felt repentance, then one shuns a fellow believer for their own good in order for such to return to the Lord. The Apostle Paul recorded this practice in the books of Corinthians in dealing with one individual. Read about it on your own sometime.

My experience with this is this:

I have no real issues with the average Christian who is struggling with sin as they admit shortcomings and desire a change. They are willing to change but struggle due to a variety of personal issues and wounds from his or her past that causes their issues. Like King David, their minds change and actions too in due time and they overcome their issues as they are healed from life's hurts in the process.

However, I have more issues with the super saints. For example, like the person I had to cut from a ministry team due to pride - religious pride. He viewed himself as God's general sent to correct the church the error of her ways. He was the authority and all must follow him to the promise land. In other words, a modern day pharisee / scribe type. The kind that put themselves into positions of power in the church.

This man's ego/pride was extreme as it was sanctimoniously religiously pious. He would brow beat Christians because he knew best God's will and ways. I find these folks a dime a dozen and so unrepentant as they view themselves morally and so spiritually superior. Of these types of folks, are, maybe, whom Jesus spoke about coming to him boasting of their great deeds and he in turn says to them, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity."

These are the folks that hurt others in churches and make a bad witness for Jesus Christ. The Bible is clear:

1 Co 6:9-11, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." NKJV

Notice revilers and it means: in Greek as well as in English as found on Dictionary.com this: to assail with contemptuous or opprobrious language; address or speak of abusively.

Also notice the word covetous in the text as well too. The man I cut from ministry teams was covetous of position, glory, control, pride, etc and refused to see his motives as they really were in order to change. The word drunkards too can also apply to those drunk with religious power-control trips. However those drunk do not see themselves as such or in any need of healing.

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is discernment of spirits. We all need this empowerment from on high to guide us daily. Those mentioned in 1 Co 6:9-10 are a proud lot, unwilling to to be corrected by the Lord and healed of their wounds of the heart. Yet, as verse 11 mentions:

"And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Co 6:11 NKJV

We are to live repentant before God and surly his Grace will lead you home changing you out of darkness into his Light. A change of mind without action is no change of mind at all. There is not one of us worthy for God's Kingdom. We all are a sorry lot.

It is By God's Grace alone that teaches us how to say No and deny ungodliness and By His grace He will lead us home as the song Amazing Grace reveals. The Lord desires a willing heart to change from the errors of sin. For those with such willingness to admit wrong and become changed throughout mortal life on earth by God's Grace find whom they belong too and the how to demonstrate the grace they so received to others.

I appreciate K's writing of his journey as that shows how God's Grace works. I trust the Lord to work in the hearts of men and women more than I do man's interloping.

We all will come across the proud religious types and those proud to abuse grace to remain in sins dysfunction; therefore, we need that empowerment daily of the gift of discernment to know what to do and how treat other's on their journey.

I find it interesting the Jesus himself called forth sinners out of sin and they came and found healing but the vast majority of religious pharisees refused to come to Jesus at all. The woman at the well, in a sinful condition helped lead an entire town to Jesus and became a new person because of it while the religious folks tried to stop such things like that from happening.

Thank God for God's Grace!

There is a time and season for every purpose under heaven i.e. a context we need to discern. There is a time to cast away away and not to cast away. Let's be wise about the time by the Holy Spirit's gift of discernment along with His wisdom.
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[swordfish7]

For new believers, who are living with a partner (male and female), though not married, 1 Cor. 7:10-24 can give guidance. First, you would want to communicate your new found faith with your partner. The general rule is to remain in the state in which God has called you - though some discernment is needed. If your partner wants to leave you over it, then 1 Cor. 7:15 would apply. You would let them go and you would be free to find another spouse. If your partner wanted to stay, though not become a Christian, then you would want to stay with the partner, but officially get married (1 Cor. 7:13). If they refused to get married then you might reconsider staying in the relationship. Of course, these are general principles and you would be wise to find godly counsel with a strong believer (likely a minister) from a godly church faithful to the word. Ideally, they would know both of you so a wise decision is made. Other extenuating circumstances may be if the women is pregnant or already has children, if the other partner is on drugs or alcohol, or if their is abuse of some kind. No good church would likely engage in church discipline or shunning if you just came to faith and were trying to work through the situation in a godly manner. They would also give you some time to work through the issue.

[crochet1949]

For new believers, who are living with a partner (male and female), though not married, 1 Cor. 7:10-24 can give guidance. First, you would want to communicate your new found faith with your partner. The general rule is to remain in the state in which God has called you - though some discernment is needed. If your partner wants to leave you over it, then 1 Cor. 7:15 would apply. You would let them go and you would be free to find another spouse. If your partner wanted to stay, though not become a Christian, then you would want to stay with the partner, but officially get married (1 Cor. 7:13). If they refused to get married then you might reconsider staying in the relationship. Of course, these are general principles and you would be wise to find godly counsel with a strong believer (likely a minister) from a godly church faithful to the word. Ideally, they would know both of you so a wise decision is made. Other extenuating circumstances may be if the women is pregnant or already has children, if the other partner is on drugs or alcohol, or if their is abuse of some kind. No good church would likely engage in church discipline or shunning if you just came to faith and were trying to work through the situation in a godly manner. They would also give you some time to work through the issue.

Agree with what you're saying here. Assuming you are referring to the person who is in the congregation and Not the person who is wanting to be in an active role in the church.
Churches Don't seem to practice church discipline any more.
Isn't the purpose For church to be the place for believers to be able to join together on a regular basis to uplift, worship God together and be taught Bible and then go out into the neighborhood and be a witness - draw people to salvation?
The church teaching Biblical ethics, morality, etc. And those within the body of believers need to be held to those standards.
And - as you were saying-- new believers need to be taught Bible -- the pastor and wife need to draw close to them and guide them / disciple them. And as they grow spiritually -- gently encourage Godly living situations, adjustments.
But, if it's apparent over time that they aren't interested in adjusting life styles to Biblical guidelines -- then .......
It seems like These days -- churches are getting away From Bible in the first place -- the idea Seems to be to 'tolerate' behavior so as to not run people Off? But maybe people are Wanting Someone To care enough To saying 'Something'. Isn't That the reason so many Kids act out? The adults in their lives are simply Too Busy. The adult world manages to bring these little creatures called Babies into the world and 'society' teaches 'tolerance' -- no spanking, 'if it feels good , do it' and Bible is ignored or laughed at -- and then we wonder where all the dysfunctional families come from. We Want them to hear the Gospel unto salvation, but we hardly know how to handle the family situations. And Trying to encourage / teach Biblical morality is somehow being un-loving? Too Strict? We lean towards rationalizing behavior cause 'everyone else is doing it'.
Just because 'everyone Is doing It' doesn't make 'it' the right thing To do.