Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
DBowling wrote:I think I'm with Rick and Jac on this one.
Scripture clearly teaches that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
So that has to be the foundation of the discussion.
The nagging question in the back of my mind as I've followed this discussion is...
Is it possible to believe in the right Jesus and believe in the wrong God?
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus... because he is God... not instead of God.
Now it is a given that none of us has a complete understanding of the true nature of God. It is simply impossible for finite creatures to fully grasp the infinite.
However, Scripture does reveal accurate truths about God to finite people.
So through the work of the Holy Spirit it is possible for even a child to have an adequate understanding of who God is and who Jesus is.
Also I think it is important to remember that we are not saved by our ability to pass some theological test, we are saved when we place our trust in the person of Jesus Christ.
Sidestepping for the moment the question of the Trinitarian model (which I do believe BTW)
The question that this thread has popping around in my head is...
Is it possible to reject fundamental truths about God as revealed in Scripture and still believe in the "right Jesus"?
In Christ
I guess it would depend on which fundamental truths one rejects.
I just think saying as a blanket statement, that anyone who rejects the Trinity, can't be saved, is wrong. It would depend on what exactly the person rejects about the Trinity.
I can't even remember when I even began to understand the Trinity, just even basically. I know it was quite a while after I trusted Christ.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Rick: I guess it would depend on which fundamental truths one rejects.
I just think saying as a blanket statement, that anyone who rejects the Trinity, can't be saved, is wrong. It would depend on what exactly the person rejects about the Trinity.
That's about where I stand - I mean, if one rejects what Scripture says about the HS, and KNOWS what it says - well, that would make me wonder.
Rick: I can't even remember when I even began to understand the Trinity, just even basically. I know it was quite a while after I trusted Christ.
You know, I was saved very young - but I also had a, what I call, a re-awakening to my faith, at about 19. But I never even thought about the Holy Spirit for a very long time. It really wasn't until I began to seriously consider and study Scripture that I realized what and WHO He is. And that HAS to be because Christiandom has done a very poor job of teaching and explaining Him.
There are a Lot of beliefs about the Holy Spirit 'out there'. The spiritual gifts can be confusing -- speaking in tongues especially -- Paul talks about a prayer language -- and doesn't he say that it's better to speak so as people can understand what is being said -- guidelines are given for speaking in tongues / interpretation must be present and only two or three speaking -- how many groups practice that. There was a couple in a small church we went to a few years ago. The couple knew the congregation would not understand their use of a prayer language, and during one informal Bible study time, they said they had a wonderful time of worshiping God together at home using the prayer language that the Holy Spirit gave them. They didn't want to cause dissension in the group, and we appreciated that about them.
And, really, how many churches teach Bible anymore -- real doctrine that is. The study of the Holy Spirit Is fascinating. And no one has All the answers. A person simply needs to find a good concordance and look up all the references For Holy Spirit / passages in context. We might be surprised by what we learn. The Holy Spirit being the teacher. For a receptive heart.
Do you think it is possible to be convicted by the HS before coming to Christ?
I have always known truth was out there, I was driven to find it. I know it was God gently calling to me.
But then doesnt the HS dwell within us after accepting Christ? Could I, as a child maybe, have already accepted him, without confessing it?
I dunno, I just feel the HS isnt a new thing for me. or was it God I was feeling?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
Storyteller wrote:Do you think it is possible to be convicted by the HS before coming to Christ?
I have always known truth was out there, I was driven to find it. I know it was God gently calling to me.
But then doesnt the HS dwell within us after accepting Christ? Could I, as a child maybe, have already accepted him, without confessing it?
I dunno, I just feel the HS isnt a new thing for me. or was it God I was feeling?
I think the HS speaks to us before we accept Christ, without actually dwelling within us.
Storyteller wrote:Do you think it is possible to be convicted by the HS before coming to Christ?
I have always known truth was out there, I was driven to find it. I know it was God gently calling to me.
But then doesnt the HS dwell within us after accepting Christ? Could I, as a child maybe, have already accepted him, without confessing it?
I dunno, I just feel the HS isnt a new thing for me. or was it God I was feeling?
It was God.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.
IceMobster wrote:If Jesus is God, why did he pray to God (which is supported by Scripture on various places)?
Why does Jesus not say that he is God anywhere in the Scripture?
Bonus question: I have no idea what Holy Spirit's role is in either the Trinity or the world, so explain. I see HS as utterly useless. Even though I know it is obviously not the teaching of the Trinity, I see HS as just a name for God's work in the world. So, yeah, give me your best concerning this 3 questions.
disclaimer: I didn't read anything beyond the OP and don't care
1st question:
He wasn't yet given the authority. Prayer is communication. He talked with Our Father. If you want to know why, ask about the specific circumstance. All though it should be seen in the scripture.
Bonus: The HS is God who searches all things and is in all things, nurturing all things including God Himself. Gods essence is only distinguishable in personality. If the HS is distinguished in God, not only is He God, but is a Person of God. He has distinguishing characteristics that show His personality and relation to Himself and existence.
