Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
IceMobster wrote:Lol what?????
This is the first time I hear something like that.
Could you explain?
Like, at some point in life he accepts Jesus as God and then later on decides all of that is bulls#it. Still saved?
Not quite. It's not just accepting Christ as God. One must believe in/trust in Christ for salvation.
And if you're interested in learning more, do a search on this site. There are plenty of threads about it.
Or, just accept John 3:16 for what it actually says.
I need a better captain than this one. Sumbudi, plis.
If you have a specific question, ask it.
Do you want me to just post bible verses that say we can't lose salvation?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Osas is interesting. It kinda reminds me of the problem of at what point is a person's body/mind preserved as they die. Like Jesus rose from the dead with holes still in his hands. Does a person who lost an arm in life regain it in the hereafter? At what point is it something that becomes reborn?
I kinda think of osas as mental rejuevenation. If accepting salvation through Jesus really means being reborn (and is not just a figure of speech), to reject that afterwards would mean we could undo birth, which we obviously cannot. I think rejection after salvation might mean that everything outside of the rebirth in Jesus would be sloughed off like a deformity.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
If you have any questions about any of the verses, pick one at a time, and we can discuss it.
John 3:16 to me, is the most obvious verse proving OSAS. If I believe today, I have eternal life. If I lose that life, it was never eternal to begin with.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
So a Christian who at one point becomes an Atheist and vice versa is still saved?
Can it be true?, that I may meet and dance with friends whom I thought are long lost in the halls of Paradise, amidst God's light
Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.
- Jesus Christ
Disappointment is inevitable. But to become discouraged, there's a choice I make. God would never discourage me. He would always point me to himself to trust him. Therefore, my discouragement is from Satan. As you go through the emotions that we have, hostility is not from God, bitterness, unforgiveness, all of these are attacks from Satan.
- Charles Stanley
I find those obsessed with denying OSAS as wasting their time on the unknowable, which is precisely what Nessa refers to - as one can never know that a person once appearing saved, who later rejects Jesus, was ever saved to begin with. Certainly, the belief that OSAS is false contradicts Scriptures asserting a moment of entering into ETERNAL life AND that God is the Author, Drawer, Guider, Sustainer and Completer of every Christian's salvation. And the Apostle Paul would have been merely making a misleading, hopeful, emotion-driven statement in Philippians 1:6! Because IF OSAS is not true, ALL Christians should quake in fear that THEY may well not be up to the task of maintaining their relationship with Christ (of which would be ADDING an unScriptural, WORKS-based requirement to salvation) , and that they can never KNOW or be confident in their salvation until their last breath.
Is there "a moment" one even enters into eternal life if God foresees and predestines?
Romans 8:28-30
28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
RickD wrote:John 3:16 to me, is the most obvious verse proving OSAS. If I believe today, I have eternal life. If I lose that life, it was never eternal to begin with.
Actually, to be technical, the condition of everlasting life in John 3:16 is based upon belief. Therefore, if one stops in their belief, the condition is no longer satsified, and one might indeed perish. So this verse alone, I don't believe gets you there.
With other passages in Scripture, like the one I just quoted in Romans, the case becomes much stronger and requires some explaining should a person disagree.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
K: Is there "a moment" one even enters into eternal life if God foresees and predestines?
From a MAN's perspective, there absolutely is a moment he is unsaved, and in the very next, through faith in Christ, he IS. But from God's perspective, a saved person always WOULD be - it's always been a CERTAINTY forever for GOD. Still, God has salvation play out in time. This is why the Apostles speak of life before and LIFE after salvation. And while God made salvation conditional (though freely and ONLY through faith), He allowed us a choice - and He does not make that choice for us, and that choice is an either/or - there are not unlimited scenarios or routes possible for salvation. But He makes the choice (Christ applied death) possible and does all else necessary. Our only contribution is a willingness to RESPOND positively to His overtures/to not permanently resist - His power does the rest, which our salvation's very Genesis and completion is entirely dependent upon. Christians are merely willing RECEIVERS - the blind being led to sight!
RickD wrote:John 3:16 to me, is the most obvious verse proving OSAS. If I believe today, I have eternal life. If I lose that life, it was never eternal to begin with.
Actually, to be technical, the condition of everlasting life in John 3:16 is based upon belief. Therefore, if one stops in their belief, the condition is no longer satsified, and one might indeed perish. So this verse alone, I don't believe gets you there.
With other passages in Scripture, like the one I just quoted in Romans, the case becomes much stronger and requires some explaining should a person disagree.
You have much to learn young grasshopper. The condition of obtaining everlasting life by God's grace, is through belief. Once one believes, he has everlasting life. Everlasting life means he will live forever. If for any reason one would perish, that means he only had temporary life, not everlasting life. And God would be a liar.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
, I'm surprised you haven't come across them.
