The biblical flood date

[abelcainsbrother]

Yes, ice floats but try this experiment : Take a cupful of ice cubes from your freezer,pour them into a dry metal or stoneware bowl,and place the bowl in the freezer for a couple of hours.Remove the bowl,set it on the counter,and quickly pour a glass of tap water over the ice in the bowl.You will find that the ice will remain stuck to the bottom of the bowl,completely submerged under the water until the bowl's surface warms enough to melt the bond.If you transfer this concept to a mountain glacier,it takes an extended amount of time for the bedrock to warm or for water to seep under it to dissolve a much more extensive bond.

This after you agreed the ice moves, meaning it aint stuck????

But ok..


First, a matter of scale.
Sure, it will hold an icecube down. But scale is why we dont get 777 size aircraft built
of balsa wood with rubber band power. Or giant ants like horses.

Lets calculate the upward force on five miles of ice.

"Buoyed by a force equal to weight of water displaced".

A cubic foot of water is weighs 5.2 lbs more than a cubic ft of ice.

So in 5 miles of ice, the force will be 5.2 x 5280 lbs per square ft.

The weak (it is no super glue) strength of the ice frozen to rock is not going to
hold 25,000 lbs per sq ft. Perhaps if one were to try lifting a 25000 lb safe
with a piece of ice frozen to it? I dont believe you'd want that over your head.

So no, I think you can see freezing it down wont work.

But then you already agreed the ice ice moving; not stuck at all.

The ice is in motion, sliding downhill. Right? (Here is where you say "yes"; dont you forgst, now)

So, even if it were stuck, which it is not, it would still float if flooded.

Side thought..people rather silly and ignorant ones, true.. but some think
thst such as the marine rocks in say, Kansas are left by the flood.

Now IF there had been a flood, AND God miracled the ice so it dont float,
whh isnt there the same rock and fossil assortments found in a " flood layer"
in the ice? Just a side note for the noah -flood fossils on everest grpup.

But never mind. A force of hundreds of pounds per square inch assures that
ice, thst was not stuck anyway, will not stay down.

So now what?

I think we know that it has pretty much stayed in place for millions of years,so it has not moved around so much like you imply,it has pretty much remained in place. Also at different times at the bottom depending on the climate there are times when it could be more floating than frozen to the bedrock. I understand the polar ice is a problem for a world wide flood which is why I have been dealing with it. Also this flood model is not the same as what YEC's typically use for a world wide flood. We do not agree the flood would produce as many fossils as they do,because they would have just decayed away. We believe the vast amount of fossils in the layers of strata have nothing to do with this world,but the former world.Now I know this might make YEC's cringe,but this is a different world wide flood model.I have made my case for now. I might explain it out in a more technical way sometime,but now now.

No, it hss not stayed in place for millions of years. False.
Please admit you sre wrong.
The oldest ice is well under a million years.
Your statement is false.

Can you admit that?

Now, aside from antarctica, there is greenland, and many mountain glaciers.
All glaciers move. They aint stuck.

Wont make a difference if they were, remember?

There is no physical way a glacirr could survive being submerged, and you know it.

Good that you notice it is a problem. You are not dealing with it tho. You are
making things up and changing the subject.

Or as my father in law put it, "thrashing about likd a foul-hooked alligator".

Seriously, man up. This is getting shameful.

Yeah,you're right about the age of the ice it is only 100,000 year BP plus old,but my point still stands that it has pretty much stayed in place. Also I already gave you an example of how the ice could remain stuck frozen to the bedrock. You can see it with your own eyes how ice will stick to the bottom while being submerged under water.I have only given you a breif scientifically viable flood model,I have not explained it out in a technical way yet. Also notice how I just make my case without telling you to woman-up. I know that as long as you believe it is impossible for a world wide flood and you keep telling yourself that,no amount of evidence I could give would convince you. I just like doing this because it helps me to stay sharp on the stuff I have researched. I've just been giving you a viable scientific model for a world wide flood,its not technical,but is scientifically valid and I have not even brought up about how our God is supernatural,can do miracles if he chooses and that with God all things are possible. But if I cannot convince you while talking to you in a scientific way,how could I convince you?

[Audie]

Yes, ice floats but try this experiment : Take a cupful of ice cubes from your freezer,pour them into a dry metal or stoneware bowl,and place the bowl in the freezer for a couple of hours.Remove the bowl,set it on the counter,and quickly pour a glass of tap water over the ice in the bowl.You will find that the ice will remain stuck to the bottom of the bowl,completely submerged under the water until the bowl's surface warms enough to melt the bond.If you transfer this concept to a mountain glacier,it takes an extended amount of time for the bedrock to warm or for water to seep under it to dissolve a much more extensive bond.

This after you agreed the ice moves, meaning it aint stuck????

But ok..


First, a matter of scale.
Sure, it will hold an icecube down. But scale is why we dont get 777 size aircraft built
of balsa wood with rubber band power. Or giant ants like horses.

Lets calculate the upward force on five miles of ice.

"Buoyed by a force equal to weight of water displaced".

A cubic foot of water is weighs 5.2 lbs more than a cubic ft of ice.

So in 5 miles of ice, the force will be 5.2 x 5280 lbs per square ft.

The weak (it is no super glue) strength of the ice frozen to rock is not going to
hold 25,000 lbs per sq ft. Perhaps if one were to try lifting a 25000 lb safe
with a piece of ice frozen to it? I dont believe you'd want that over your head.

So no, I think you can see freezing it down wont work.

But then you already agreed the ice ice moving; not stuck at all.

The ice is in motion, sliding downhill. Right? (Here is where you say "yes"; dont you forgst, now)

So, even if it were stuck, which it is not, it would still float if flooded.

Side thought..people rather silly and ignorant ones, true.. but some think
thst such as the marine rocks in say, Kansas are left by the flood.

Now IF there had been a flood, AND God miracled the ice so it dont float,
whh isnt there the same rock and fossil assortments found in a " flood layer"
in the ice? Just a side note for the noah -flood fossils on everest grpup.

But never mind. A force of hundreds of pounds per square inch assures that
ice, thst was not stuck anyway, will not stay down.

So now what?

I think we know that it has pretty much stayed in place for millions of years,so it has not moved around so much like you imply,it has pretty much remained in place. Also at different times at the bottom depending on the climate there are times when it could be more floating than frozen to the bedrock. I understand the polar ice is a problem for a world wide flood which is why I have been dealing with it. Also this flood model is not the same as what YEC's typically use for a world wide flood. We do not agree the flood would produce as many fossils as they do,because they would have just decayed away. We believe the vast amount of fossils in the layers of strata have nothing to do with this world,but the former world.Now I know this might make YEC's cringe,but this is a different world wide flood model.I have made my case for now. I might explain it out in a more technical way sometime,but now now.

No, it hss not stayed in place for millions of years. False.
Please admit you sre wrong.
The oldest ice is well under a million years.
Your statement is false.

Can you admit that?

Now, aside from antarctica, there is greenland, and many mountain glaciers.
All glaciers move. They aint stuck.

Wont make a difference if they were, remember?

There is no physical way a glacirr could survive being submerged, and you know it.

Good that you notice it is a problem. You are not dealing with it tho. You are
making things up and changing the subject.

Or as my father in law put it, "thrashing about likd a foul-hooked alligator".

Seriously, man up. This is getting shameful.

Yeah,you're right about the age of the ice it is only 100,000 year BP plus old,but my point still stands that it has pretty much stayed in place. Also I already gave you an example of how the ice could remain stuck frozen to the bedrock. You can see it with your own eyes how ice will stick to the bottom while being submerged under water.I have only given you a breif scientifically viable flood model,I have not explained it out in a technical way yet. Also notice how I just make my case without telling you to woman-up. I know that as long as you believe it is impossible for a world wide flood and you keep telling yourself that,no amount of evidence I could give would convince you. I just like doing this because it helps me to stay sharp on the stuff I have researched. I've just been giving you a viable scientific model for a world wide flood,its not technical,but is scientifically valid and I have not even brought up about how our God is supernatural,can do miracles if he chooses and that with God all things are possible. But if I cannot convince you while talking to you in a scientific way,how could I convince you?

Talking in a scientific way? You?

You are denying that glaciers move! Saying they are frozen down, stuvk in place!

And pretending that underwater, a force of hundredsof pounds per squsre inch could not overcome
the weak force holding ice to rock if it did freeze there.

Far far greater of course is the shearing action of a glacir, as it carves valleys, rips the rocks out.

Glaciers sre not stuck down! How obvious does somdthing have to be?

You like videos. Watch time lapse of glaciers moving.

[crochet1949]

Okay -- Audie -- let's try this from a slightly different perspective -- Why did the flood happen in the first place. Genesis tells us. So what does the book of Genesis tell us about it.

Uh, no. The story is a cautionary tale. I cannot say why it "happened" as it did not "happen."

'What is a 'cautionary tale'?
God's Word tells us why the great flood happened. In the book of Genesis.

[abelcainsbrother]

This after you agreed the ice moves, meaning it aint stuck????

But ok..


First, a matter of scale.
Sure, it will hold an icecube down. But scale is why we dont get 777 size aircraft built
of balsa wood with rubber band power. Or giant ants like horses.

Lets calculate the upward force on five miles of ice.

"Buoyed by a force equal to weight of water displaced".

A cubic foot of water is weighs 5.2 lbs more than a cubic ft of ice.

So in 5 miles of ice, the force will be 5.2 x 5280 lbs per square ft.

The weak (it is no super glue) strength of the ice frozen to rock is not going to
hold 25,000 lbs per sq ft. Perhaps if one were to try lifting a 25000 lb safe
with a piece of ice frozen to it? I dont believe you'd want that over your head.

So no, I think you can see freezing it down wont work.

But then you already agreed the ice ice moving; not stuck at all.

The ice is in motion, sliding downhill. Right? (Here is where you say "yes"; dont you forgst, now)

So, even if it were stuck, which it is not, it would still float if flooded.

Side thought..people rather silly and ignorant ones, true.. but some think
thst such as the marine rocks in say, Kansas are left by the flood.

Now IF there had been a flood, AND God miracled the ice so it dont float,
whh isnt there the same rock and fossil assortments found in a " flood layer"
in the ice? Just a side note for the noah -flood fossils on everest grpup.

But never mind. A force of hundreds of pounds per square inch assures that
ice, thst was not stuck anyway, will not stay down.

So now what?

I think we know that it has pretty much stayed in place for millions of years,so it has not moved around so much like you imply,it has pretty much remained in place. Also at different times at the bottom depending on the climate there are times when it could be more floating than frozen to the bedrock. I understand the polar ice is a problem for a world wide flood which is why I have been dealing with it. Also this flood model is not the same as what YEC's typically use for a world wide flood. We do not agree the flood would produce as many fossils as they do,because they would have just decayed away. We believe the vast amount of fossils in the layers of strata have nothing to do with this world,but the former world.Now I know this might make YEC's cringe,but this is a different world wide flood model.I have made my case for now. I might explain it out in a more technical way sometime,but now now.

No, it hss not stayed in place for millions of years. False.
Please admit you sre wrong.
The oldest ice is well under a million years.
Your statement is false.

Can you admit that?

Now, aside from antarctica, there is greenland, and many mountain glaciers.
All glaciers move. They aint stuck.

Wont make a difference if they were, remember?

There is no physical way a glacirr could survive being submerged, and you know it.

Good that you notice it is a problem. You are not dealing with it tho. You are
making things up and changing the subject.

Or as my father in law put it, "thrashing about likd a foul-hooked alligator".

Seriously, man up. This is getting shameful.

Yeah,you're right about the age of the ice it is only 100,000 year BP plus old,but my point still stands that it has pretty much stayed in place. Also I already gave you an example of how the ice could remain stuck frozen to the bedrock. You can see it with your own eyes how ice will stick to the bottom while being submerged under water.I have only given you a breif scientifically viable flood model,I have not explained it out in a technical way yet. Also notice how I just make my case without telling you to woman-up. I know that as long as you believe it is impossible for a world wide flood and you keep telling yourself that,no amount of evidence I could give would convince you. I just like doing this because it helps me to stay sharp on the stuff I have researched. I've just been giving you a viable scientific model for a world wide flood,its not technical,but is scientifically valid and I have not even brought up about how our God is supernatural,can do miracles if he chooses and that with God all things are possible. But if I cannot convince you while talking to you in a scientific way,how could I convince you?

Talking in a scientific way? You?

You are denying that glaciers move! Saying they are frozen down, stuvk in place!

And pretending that underwater, a force of hundredsof pounds per squsre inch could not overcome
the weak force holding ice to rock if it did freeze there.

Far far greater of course is the shearing action of a glacir, as it carves valleys, rips the rocks out.

Glaciers sre not stuck down! How obvious does somdthing have to be?

You like videos. Watch time lapse of glaciers moving.

Not Logs Lincoln
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbfILzaP8b0

[Audie]

Okay -- Audie -- let's try this from a slightly different perspective -- Why did the flood happen in the first place. Genesis tells us. So what does the book of Genesis tell us about it.

Uh, no. The story is a cautionary tale. I cannot say why it "happened" as it did not "happen."

'What is a 'cautionary tale'?
God's Word tells us why the great flood happened. In the book of Genesis.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cautionary_tale

The biblevalso says the hills will clap their hands.

[Audie]

I think we know that it has pretty much stayed in place for millions of years,so it has not moved around so much like you imply,it has pretty much remained in place. Also at different times at the bottom depending on the climate there are times when it could be more floating than frozen to the bedrock. I understand the polar ice is a problem for a world wide flood which is why I have been dealing with it. Also this flood model is not the same as what YEC's typically use for a world wide flood. We do not agree the flood would produce as many fossils as they do,because they would have just decayed away. We believe the vast amount of fossils in the layers of strata have nothing to do with this world,but the former world.Now I know this might make YEC's cringe,but this is a different world wide flood model.I have made my case for now. I might explain it out in a more technical way sometime,but now now.

No, it hss not stayed in place for millions of years. False.
Please admit you sre wrong.
The oldest ice is well under a million years.
Your statement is false.

Can you admit that?

Now, aside from antarctica, there is greenland, and many mountain glaciers.
All glaciers move. They aint stuck.

Wont make a difference if they were, remember?

There is no physical way a glacirr could survive being submerged, and you know it.

Good that you notice it is a problem. You are not dealing with it tho. You are
making things up and changing the subject.

Or as my father in law put it, "thrashing about likd a foul-hooked alligator".

Seriously, man up. This is getting shameful.

Yeah,you're right about the age of the ice it is only 100,000 year BP plus old,but my point still stands that it has pretty much stayed in place. Also I already gave you an example of how the ice could remain stuck frozen to the bedrock. You can see it with your own eyes how ice will stick to the bottom while being submerged under water.I have only given you a breif scientifically viable flood model,I have not explained it out in a technical way yet. Also notice how I just make my case without telling you to woman-up. I know that as long as you believe it is impossible for a world wide flood and you keep telling yourself that,no amount of evidence I could give would convince you. I just like doing this because it helps me to stay sharp on the stuff I have researched. I've just been giving you a viable scientific model for a world wide flood,its not technical,but is scientifically valid and I have not even brought up about how our God is supernatural,can do miracles if he chooses and that with God all things are possible. But if I cannot convince you while talking to you in a scientific way,how could I convince you?

Talking in a scientific way? You?

You are denying that glaciers move! Saying they are frozen down, stuvk in place!

And pretending that underwater, a force of hundredsof pounds per squsre inch could not overcome
the weak force holding ice to rock if it did freeze there.

Far far greater of course is the shearing action of a glacir, as it carves valleys, rips the rocks out.

Glaciers sre not stuck down! How obvious does somdthing have to be?

You like videos. Watch time lapse of glaciers moving.

Not Logs Lincoln
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbfILzaP8b0

Glaciers move. They are not "stuck down".

Ice floats.

The ice was there long before the myghical flood, it is still there.

Either the ice is phony or the story is. Cant have it both ways

Ab will now concedd that there was no global flood?

Or will he claim again that the ice just rose up, and settled
again, ever so perfectly, in place?

Will he notice the differrnce between demonstrable facts I present
(glaciers move, ice floats, ice melts) and his contradictory made up fantasies? ( ice musta been stuck,
dust from a flood, ice settle down right where it was, etc)

Will he figure out the difference between a responsible reading of genesis, and one
that brings scorn and derision down on the faith?

Bets?

[RickD]

Audie wrote:
Bets?

I wager one billion dollars, that this "discussion" between Audie and ACB, will be just as much of an exercise in futility, as any of their other discussions.

[Audie]

Audie wrote:
Bets?

I wager one billion dollars, that this "discussion" between Audie and ACB, will be just as much of an exercise in futility, as any other discussions.

Fixed, you had 3 too many words

[Jac3510]

Audie wrote:
Bets?

I wager one billion dollars, that this "discussion" between Audie and ACB, will be just as much of an exercise in futility, as any other discussions.

Fixed, you had 3 too many words

I only counted two that you took out . . . but that's a useless discussion, eh?

[RickD]

Audie wrote:
Bets?

I wager one billion dollars, that this "discussion" between Audie and ACB, will be just as much of an exercise in futility, as any other discussions.

Fixed, you had 3 too many words

Thanks Audie. I can always count on you to fix my grammatical errors, by using faulty math.

[Audie]

Any time.

[crochet1949]

I've sort of wondered Why there is so much Strong disbelief in the Bible -- on Audie's part.

Maybe it's not just Audie -- maybe it's the fact that God's Word Is living and powerful and has the power to Convict people -- and people don't like to be convicted of Whatever.

No one likes to think of God as a powerful being who would purposely punish sin.

The Biblical flood date--like the exact date for Christmas -- no one knows for sure when Jesus was born -- December 25 was chosen for various reasons. That doesn't stop us from celebrating the birth of Jesus. So - just because we can't fix an absolute year for the flood certainly does Not mean it never took place. Genesis tells us that God was sick and tired of the sinning of mankind. We were getting worse and worse so He chose to destroy that which He created. People were violent. So they wouldn't listen to God's warning and they died because of it. Man chooses to sin and then doesn't like the negative consequences Of.

[abelcainsbrother]

No, it hss not stayed in place for millions of years. False.
Please admit you sre wrong.
The oldest ice is well under a million years.
Your statement is false.

Can you admit that?

Now, aside from antarctica, there is greenland, and many mountain glaciers.
All glaciers move. They aint stuck.

Wont make a difference if they were, remember?

There is no physical way a glacirr could survive being submerged, and you know it.

Good that you notice it is a problem. You are not dealing with it tho. You are
making things up and changing the subject.

Or as my father in law put it, "thrashing about likd a foul-hooked alligator".

Seriously, man up. This is getting shameful.

Yeah,you're right about the age of the ice it is only 100,000 year BP plus old,but my point still stands that it has pretty much stayed in place. Also I already gave you an example of how the ice could remain stuck frozen to the bedrock. You can see it with your own eyes how ice will stick to the bottom while being submerged under water.I have only given you a breif scientifically viable flood model,I have not explained it out in a technical way yet. Also notice how I just make my case without telling you to woman-up. I know that as long as you believe it is impossible for a world wide flood and you keep telling yourself that,no amount of evidence I could give would convince you. I just like doing this because it helps me to stay sharp on the stuff I have researched. I've just been giving you a viable scientific model for a world wide flood,its not technical,but is scientifically valid and I have not even brought up about how our God is supernatural,can do miracles if he chooses and that with God all things are possible. But if I cannot convince you while talking to you in a scientific way,how could I convince you?

Talking in a scientific way? You?

You are denying that glaciers move! Saying they are frozen down, stuvk in place!

And pretending that underwater, a force of hundredsof pounds per squsre inch could not overcome
the weak force holding ice to rock if it did freeze there.

Far far greater of course is the shearing action of a glacir, as it carves valleys, rips the rocks out.

Glaciers sre not stuck down! How obvious does somdthing have to be?

You like videos. Watch time lapse of glaciers moving.

Not Logs Lincoln
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbfILzaP8b0

Glaciers move. They are not "stuck down".

Ice floats.

The ice was there long before the myghical flood, it is still there.

Either the ice is phony or the story is. Cant have it both ways

Ab will now concedd that there was no global flood?

Or will he claim again that the ice just rose up, and settled
again, ever so perfectly, in place?

Will he notice the differrnce between demonstrable facts I present
(glaciers move, ice floats, ice melts) and his contradictory made up fantasies? ( ice musta been stuck,
dust from a flood, ice settle down right where it was, etc)

Will he figure out the difference between a responsible reading of genesis, and one
that brings scorn and derision down on the faith?

Bets?

I've already talked to you on a scientific level and made a case for a viable scientific world wide flood model and it didn't work,so I'll go in a different direction now. How can you accept the ToE inwich you have never seen any life evolve,were not there to see it,and yet reject a world wide flood inwhich a Supernatural God that spoke the entire universe into existence says he flooded the earth? Even if there was no evidence for a flood it requires less faith to believe God can and did flood the earth. It would be easy for a God that spoke the entire universe into existence and does'nt require much faith at all to believe nor any other miracle we read about throughout the bible,it requires alot more faith to believe the ToE.

Enter Samson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDz72v7vpuI

[Audie]

I've already talked to you on a scientific level and made a case for a viable scientific world wide flood model and it didn't work,so I'll go in a different direction now. How can you accept the ToEI

Yes, you made your case. It did not work, because the ice is there
to prove there was no such flood as you imagine. I can see it is an impossible thing for you to accept, though, as your whole construct of reality would fall apart.

As for a new direction, no thanks. I dont play "chase the squirrel through the treetops" while you change subjects.

Side note to any so unfortunate as to seen this display, this is the last time
that it will happen.

[abelcainsbrother]

I've already talked to you on a scientific level and made a case for a viable scientific world wide flood model and it didn't work,so I'll go in a different direction now. How can you accept the ToEI

Yes, you made your case. It did not work, because the ice is there
to prove there was no such flood as you imagine. I can see it is an impossible thing for you to accept, though, as your whole construct of reality would fall apart.

As for a new direction, no thanks. I dont play "chase the squirrel through the treetops" while you change subjects.

Side note to any so unfortunate as to seen this display, this is the last time
that it will happen.

I cannot help it that you ignore climate change and how the glaciers can be frozen to the bedrock and at other times,depending on the climate it can be more floating. I can't help it I showed you how ice can remain stuck to the bottom while being fully submerged.You also overlook how fresh water is less dense than salt water.You also ignored all of the other scientific reasons to see how there was a flood. The earth is really flooded now,with 70% of it surface covered with water.I thought I could talk to you on a scientific level.Also I never denied glaciers can move,nor do I deny the deep gouges we see on land even far south that shows how far ice has been before.