The US bombs Syrian forces

[melanie]

To suggest that motivation is not important whilst I rob your household, take your wealth, kill where I see fit, topple your head of state, disable your economy and leave you bankrupt.
Have you asked an Iraqi how pleased they were that you the US intervened?
Or a Libyian?

[Byblos]

To suggest that motivation is not important whilst I rob your household, take your wealth, kill where I see fit, topple your head of state, disable your economy and leave you bankrupt.
Have you asked an Iraqi how pleased they were that you the US intervened?
Or a Libyian?

I am well aware of the anti-American sentiment. Again, I've lived it, on both sides. It is an ignorant, emotional one, nothing more.

And yes, I have asked Libyans, Iraqis, Egyptians, and on and on. I have many friends from those countries. The overwhelming (albeit private, for obvious reasons) is that no matter how bad it is today, they are certainly much better off than before.

[Jac3510]

Actually the US intervention is foreign governments is based on our interests. It has nothing to do with personal profit. Now, each administration interprets our interests. So while there was a time that I supported Bush's interpretation of our foreign interests (and by extension Obama's and Clintons)--that interpretive position is roughly labeled "neo-con"--I think, per Philip's comment above, that history has shown it to be in error. What I agree with Bush still on is that we need to fight terrorists on their own soil rather than ours and that governments that support, harbor, and train terrorists need to be strongly dealt with (if not toppled). What I think Bush was mistaken about is the importance of regional stability. Nature abhors a vacuum, right? So if you topple a regime, everything changes, and in the powder keg that is Islamofacism, the results are too unpredictable to be in our interests. So Assad, while a brutal murderer, is absolutely evil, it is in our interests that ISIS not be in power. So since that is our interest, then we should act accordingly and back the lesser of the two evils. Again, it isn't about profit.

[PaulSacramento]

Ah, the things people do to justify crapping in someone else's back yard.
Can I ask you something?
How's that working out for you?

[RickD]

Ah, the things people do to justify crapping in someone else's back yard.
Can I ask you something?
How's that working out for you?

Paul,

Could you clarify to whom you are talking here, and what exactly you mean?

[Jac3510]

Ah, the things people do to justify crapping in someone else's back yard.
Can I ask you something?
How's that working out for you?

If you're talking to me, then overall, it's working out extremely well. There were the stupid interventions in Iraq and Libya, but other than that, our foreign policy has made the entire world (to say nothing of our nation) far more peaceful and prosperous than it would have been otherwise. The fact that the world doesn't speak German, the fact that the USSR didn't basically take over most of the world, the fact that South Korea is free which means I don't have to own a stupid iPhone . . . across the general scoreboard, yes, Reagan was right that America is a shining city and the last beacon of hope. And to the rest of the free world, I say "you're welcome." The fact that they have the freedom to criticize us was given to them and defended by us and is a direct result of our values. So, yes, very much so: you're welcome.

[PaulSacramento]

Ah, the things people do to justify crapping in someone else's back yard.
Can I ask you something?
How's that working out for you?

Paul,

Could you clarify to whom you are talking here, and what exactly you mean?

Just in general Rick.

[PaulSacramento]

Ah, the things people do to justify crapping in someone else's back yard.
Can I ask you something?
How's that working out for you?

If you're talking to me, then overall, it's working out extremely well. There were the stupid interventions in Iraq and Libya, but other than that, our foreign policy has made the entire world (to say nothing of our nation) far more peaceful and prosperous than it would have been otherwise. The fact that the world doesn't speak German, the fact that the USSR didn't basically take over most of the world, the fact that South Korea is free which means I don't have to own a stupid iPhone . . . across the general scoreboard, yes, Reagan was right that America is a shining city and the last beacon of hope. And to the rest of the free world, I say "you're welcome." The fact that they have the freedom to criticize us was given to them and defended by us and is a direct result of our values. So, yes, very much so: you're welcome.

You do realize that the rest of the world does NOT see it that way, does not see the USA that way, right?

[Byblos]

Ah, the things people do to justify crapping in someone else's back yard.
Can I ask you something?
How's that working out for you?

If you're talking to me, then overall, it's working out extremely well. There were the stupid interventions in Iraq and Libya, but other than that, our foreign policy has made the entire world (to say nothing of our nation) far more peaceful and prosperous than it would have been otherwise. The fact that the world doesn't speak German, the fact that the USSR didn't basically take over most of the world, the fact that South Korea is free which means I don't have to own a stupid iPhone . . . across the general scoreboard, yes, Reagan was right that America is a shining city and the last beacon of hope. And to the rest of the free world, I say "you're welcome." The fact that they have the freedom to criticize us was given to them and defended by us and is a direct result of our values. So, yes, very much so: you're welcome.

You do realize that the rest of the world does NOT see it that way, does not see the USA that way, right?

So what? We know exactly what it is. It ain't perfect but it certainly is not born out of greed or profit or imperialism. Those on the outside can see it however they wish depending on their own agendas and preconceived notions. It matters not one bit.

[Philip]

The US has no business poking it's nose into middle eastern affairs apart from its own profit.
Ohh and that's a few billion in oil and military arms.

We DO have business over there, as if that region is overrun and the flow of oil stops and the world is held hostage to it - and depending upon what entities those petro-billions will then flow to - we have every right to be concerned and involved. The world economies are linked, with some more closely than others. But a big gap in oil availability, even MORE dangerous hands receiving oil money - these can wreck, not just the west, but the poor countries that depend upon our benevolence and aid. And right now, the world's economies are in a mess! ANY further, significant disruption of that region could have a catastrophic domino impact, economically, politically.

[Jac3510]

You do realize that the rest of the world does NOT see it that way, does not see the USA that way, right?

I don't really care how the rest of the world sees it. That's their problem, not ours. Now, any outreach we can do behind the scenes is good and I approve of it. But I'm frankly not very interested in putting both ourselves and the entire world at risk by coddling other people's ill-informed anxieties.

Again, in retrospect, we should not have gone into Iraq or Libya (in my opinion). But that's retrospective. You know hindsight and all that. But to take that mistake and try to make it a general case of American interventionalism and so an argument against it is irrational, and we ought to simply ignore it. Let the haters hate. We'll still take care them.

[RickD]

jac wrote:
The fact that the world doesn't speak German, the fact that the USSR didn't basically take over most of the world, the fact that South Korea is free which means I don't have to own a stupid iPhone . . . across the general scoreboard, yes, Reagan was right that America is a shining city and the last beacon of hope. And to the rest of the free world, I say "you're welcome." The fact that they have the freedom to criticize us was given to them and defended by us and is a direct result of our values. So, yes, very much so: you're welcome.

Jac,

I'm sorry. All this time knowing you, I had no idea that you were in the military, and fought for our freedom, and the freedom of others. I had no idea that you were a world war 2, and Korean War veteran!

So, while you already said, "you're welcome", I just wanted to personally say, "thank you"!

[Jac3510]

I don't think those statements can only be said by those who have served in the military generally or by those who served in those particular conflicts. The fact is, it is America that has largely provided the benefits in question. That's MY country. My tax dollars, and the tax dollars of my fellow countrymen, provided those benefits.

By analogy, one football team beats another, and a player who sat on the bench the entire time says, "Ha! We beat you!" He's not wrong. Nor are the owners of the team who say the same. And by extension, neither are the fans who make the team's existence possible.

So, I said then and I maintain it: to those who enjoy any real measure of freedom in this world, "You're welcome." Whether they thank America and our interventionalist policy or not, the statement is still appropriate coming from the lips of any American.

[RickD]

I don't think those statements can only be said by those who have served in the military generally or by those who served in those particular conflicts. The fact is, it is America that has largely provided the benefits in question. That's MY country. My tax dollars, and the tax dollars of my fellow countrymen, provided those benefits.

By analogy, one football team beats another, and a player who sat on the bench the entire time says, "Ha! We beat you!" He's not wrong. Nor are the owners of the team who say the same. And by extension, neither are the fans who make the team's existence possible.

So, I said then and I maintain it: to those who enjoy any real measure of freedom in this world, "You're welcome." Whether they thank America and our interventionalist policy or not, the statement is still appropriate coming from the lips of any American.

By that same "tax dollars" argument, thank you for killing millions of unborn humans.
Thanks again for your service. You're a true patriot!

[Jac3510]

In one sense, you and I are responsible for the deaths of so many unborn, Rick. We are members of a country that murder our own children. That's our society. Have you read Daniel's confession of national sin?

In another sense, there is a difference in the guilt of individual members of society and the collective actions of people as a government. The government itself does not kill children (although we do execute murderers). The government itself does, however, declare war and intervene to protect its people. So American interventionalism is a product of the natural function of government, whereas abortion is not. So there is a significant difference in the two cases that must be maintained.