Kurieuo wrote:Sorry Rick, hope I didn't offend in using you as an example. You know we often make similar jokes and fall off that cliff. I could have easily said take myself for example.
No offense taken. I know you well enough to know your intentions.
But Dan on the other hand...I'm still trying to figure out what the hell he's talking about!
Oi, not my fault you Americans can't spell or speak English correctly.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Dan wrote:
Do you recognise that your argument has flaws and can you work out on your own the flaws that exist in your argument? I know I can with mine, I can break it down and accept that there are weaknesses in some areas, but it is strong in others and I can accept that yours has areas of weakness and strength, can you do the same?
Dan,
My argument is simply that those cake bakers in Ireland, and the cake baker in the US, who refused to bake a cake with a message that goes against their conscience, have a moral obligation to refuse to bake that cake. And, they should be protected by law, to discriminate against a message that goes against their conscience. Nowhere am I arguing that discrimination against a customer, just because the customer is gay, is acceptable.
It was the message on the cake that was found to go against their conscience, not the fact that the customer was gay.
With that said, I don't see any flaws in that argument, as stated. Could I be wrong? Of course.
Ok Rick, no worries, I don't think I have anything more to discuss with you on this subject.
I'm glad you realize your argument has been found wanting, and any further arguing on your points, is fruitless.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
RickD wrote:I'm glad you realize your argument has been found wanting, and any further arguing on your points, is fruitless.
Which is too bad. Fruit is better than cake any day.
Obligatory:
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
I really don't like fruitcake. Sorry, but that's one I'd not bake for anyone. Just hope I'm not asked by a gay person to ever make one because we all know what'd happen then.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Kurieuo wrote:I really don't like fruitcake. Sorry, but that's one I'd not bake for anyone. Just hope I'm not asked by a gay person to ever make one because we all know what'd happen then.
I agree with your stance BUT...
It could be tricky..
What if you were a baker and got asked to make a wedding cake for "Susan and Sam'?
You just assume Sam is a guy but really they are lesbians and you dont find out til after the wedding is over when they both come into the shop to thankyou for doing such a great job!
Kurieuo wrote:I really don't like fruitcake. Sorry, but that's one I'd not bake for anyone. Just hope I'm not asked by a gay person to ever make one because we all know what'd happen then.
I agree with your stance BUT...
It could be tricky..
What if you were a baker and got asked to make a wedding cake for "Susan and Sam'?
You just assume Sam is a guy but really they are lesbians and you dont find out til after the wedding is over when they both come into the shop to thankyou for doing such a great job!
What would you do/say?
If they bought a cake I baked, they wouldn't come into the shop to thank me. They'd come in to tell me the wedding guests got sick from my crappy cake.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.
- Jesus Christ
Disappointment is inevitable. But to become discouraged, there's a choice I make. God would never discourage me. He would always point me to himself to trust him. Therefore, my discouragement is from Satan. As you go through the emotions that we have, hostility is not from God, bitterness, unforgiveness, all of these are attacks from Satan.
- Charles Stanley
Exactly
The issue isn't really what is being expressed in icing on the cake but the principal
Some Christians don't want to supply a cake for a gay marriage. That is the bottom line.
My question is where do we draw the line??
A limo service refuses service
A florist
A venue
A dress maker
At what point does this become blatant predujice?
Every person deserves a basic level of customer service.
It needs to be legislated against because of what could occur which is a paying customer under the law being deprived of their basic rights.
If I worked at McDonald and an obese person asked for a double cheeseburger and I refused them under religious reasons because of gluttony then that would not stand up in public opinion or a court.
I would get the sack.
Or if I worked in a video store and some guy seemed to be hiring sexual explicit movies and I declined him service because I thought he was a bit of a creep and my religious beliefs didn't accommodate perverts.
I could work at a tv station that is broadcasting the Victoria secret runway show and indecent exposure is probably not the most Christian approach.
Or if I worked at a clinic that pumps women full of Botox and fillers, exasperating a ego centric, self absorbed mentality.
How often in today's world are our values questioned and our jobs not ideally the most Christian way of operating.
My hubby drives tower cranes and when he started 17 years ago the union was strong. If it was really windy, raining ect the work would shut down.
Now the unions have no power.
He has worked in 80km winds and atrocious weather. I have asked what would happen if an accident happened??
He agrees with me and hates having to work under those conditions but the law has passed and he is obliged to operate under dubious conditions.
In theory it's unchristian
He is putting job security above personal safety.
My point being that unchristian approaches are taken consistently in our work places everyday.
The debate surrounding the ethical and/or Christian approach of cake makers is nothing more than a political and media motivation.
A little hypocritical
I'm sad to say, the liberal agenda in America, has finally made its way to Australia.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
I think in Australia we've thankfully been somewhat sheilded from such media hysteria regarding the issue.
We have gays
And cake makers
But not quite the amount of hoo hah
melanie wrote:I think in Australia we've thankfully been somewhat sheilded from such media hysteria regarding the issue.
We have gays
And cake makers
But not be quite amount of hoo hah
Mel,
I was talking about your post being evidence of the liberal agenda reaching Australia. Nevermind. If you weren't having a blonde moment, you'd have understood I was ribbing you.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
melanie wrote:I think I got that Rick
And if you weren't having a Rick moment
You'd realised I was ribbing you
A Rick moment. That's probably so much worse than a blonde moment. If you only knew.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
RickD wrote:I'm sad to say, the liberal agenda in America, has finally made its way to Australia.
We just look at which direction you guys are throwing the stick in, and then run up after it. So we'll always be ahead of your guys in the "progressive" arena.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Kurieuo wrote:I really don't like fruitcake. Sorry, but that's one I'd not bake for anyone. Just hope I'm not asked by a gay person to ever make one because we all know what'd happen then.
I agree with your stance BUT...
It could be tricky..
What if you were a baker and got asked to make a wedding cake for "Susan and Sam'?
You just assume Sam is a guy but really they are lesbians and you dont find out til after the wedding is over when they both come into the shop to thankyou for doing such a great job!
What would you do/say?
Again, doesn't matter. If it were a priest ordered the damn cake... it's not about the person, but rather libertarian values being protected.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
