Healing, Karma and The Christ Logos

[BigHamster]

FYI: The following might explain why some healings can take a long time.....(NB. karma = 'what you sow is what you reap')



‘All illnesses are due to Karma,’ Daskalos replied. ‘It is either the result of your own debts or the debts of others you love.’

‘I can understand paying for one’s own Karma but what does it mean paying the Karma of someone you love?’ I asked.

‘What do you think Christ meant,’ Daskalos said, ‘when he urged us to bear one another’s burdens?’

‘Karma,’ Daskalos explained, ‘has to be paid off in one way or another. This is the universal law of balance. So when we love someone, we may assist him in paying part of his debt. But this,’ he said, ‘is possible only after that person has received his ‘lesson’ and therefore it would not be necessary to pay his debt in full. When most of the Karma has been paid off someone else can assume the remaining burden and relieve the subject from the pain.'

‘When we are willing to do that,’ Daskalos continued, ‘the Logos will assume nine-tenths of the remaining debt and we would actually assume only one-tenth. Thus the final debt that will have to be paid would be much less and the necessary pain would be considerably reduced. These are not arbitrary percentages,’ Daskalos insisted, ‘but part of the nature of things.’



― Kyriacos C. Markides, The Magus of Strovolos: The Extraordinary World of a Spiritual Healer.

(https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1 ... l-healer-a)

[BigHamster]

ok. Daskalos also mentioned somewhere that most of the people he assisted in healing had their karma exhausted and that they would have eventually healed regardless of whether he helped them or not.

Now, lets look at John 9:

“As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.


In this case, we have a man who was made blind which has no apparent cause but only an effect. The scientist in me feels a bit uncomfortable knowing that some of us can have that type of illness which is beyond the Divine law of cause and effect (i.e., his illness was not due to 'what you sow is what you reap' as Jesus called it).

I better go away and ponder over this stuff a bit more

[B. W.]

Never heard of the person mentioned so I need to look into it more...

Like the Apostle Paul wrote; Test everything...

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[BigHamster]

Never heard of the person mentioned so I need to look into it more...

Like the Apostle Paul wrote; Test everything...

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Hmm. I've always wondered about John 9. Maybe I've over complicated things. It reads like 'He did not sow what he reaped' ? God can do what he likes I guess.

[Kurieuo]

If there is a "healing karma", then no one would ever be healed because we'd be forever in debt, in debt to God.

No one who also carries a debt to God could ever fill in our remaining debt, resulting in healing. Christ is the only one we know who is said to have no debt, and so can pay to redeem us from our own.

Further, the thought that we can be "good' to outweigh "bad", isn't found in Christ's teaching. Rather, sin is either pass/fail. If you've sinned once, you fail and no good you do can remove that stain.

• But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)

God doesn't do balancing acts of good and bad (something us humans like to do and perhaps see merit to), but rather God is pure goodness, righteousness and holiness.

[BigHamster]

I know what you are trying to say Kurieuo. I need to study this stuff a bit more.

eg.

Do people actually get sick due to their transgressions and/or family's past sins?

We should note that we get people today who get sick and get healed all the time without praying. calling on God etc..

Who actually does the healing ?

I think its God who does the healing *always* but occasionally, people are sometimes granted authority to work in co-ordination with the Logos and Holy Spirit to heal others e.g. the Apostles etc..

As Jesus mentions, 'wait for power to come from on-high'.

Or as stated here, one can receive the gift of healing......

1 Corinthians 12:8-10
"For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues."

[Kurieuo]

I know what you are trying to say Kurieuo. I need to study this stuff a bit more.

eg.

Do people actually get sick due to their transgressions and/or family's past sins?

We should note that we get people today who get sick and get healed all the time without praying. calling on God etc..

Who actually does the healing ?

I think its God who does the healing *always* but occasionally, people are sometimes granted authority to work in co-ordination with the Logos and Holy Spirit to heal others e.g. the Apostles etc..

As Jesus mentions, 'wait for power to come from on-high'.

Or as stated here, one can receive the gift of healing......

1 Corinthians 12:8-10
"For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues."

Christians often try to put a formula to it, but the truth of the matter as I see things, is that God gives and takes and no one really knows why. The gifts given to the Apostles were uniquely given in degree and extent, but that's not to say God doesn't also work or perform miracles today. They weren't applying, as Simon the sorcerer thought, some kind of formula but rather God, even Christ via Holy Spirit, had given them authority to do God's work on earth and lay the foundations of the Christian church. I'm not anti-Pentecost today, in fact, my own upbringing is heavily such.

Re: becoming sick due to sins, perhaps, perhaps not. Christ clearly steers his own Apostles away from thinking such thoughts in John 9. Read over that chapter. Nonetheless, in many instances, Christ Himself associates a person's sickness with the spiritual world. I'm not averse, and indeed think it is rather Scriptural, to see that all sickness as attributable to invisible forces of the world.

Yes, there are physical reasons that can be attributed. For example, John 9:1 with the man blind from birth, his blindness was a physical ailment, vision is something natural and tied physically to our bodies. Nonetheless, it should not be missed that for us, the true foundations of our world are spiritual and immaterial in origin.

The absolute root cause therefore, and I think Jesus saw this quite clearly and directly, were the spiritual forces opposed to God and indeed us who are his children, who are at work in the world trying to cause as much death and destruction as possible as they seeth in their enmity towards God knowing their time is coming to an end.

Now as to whether our sin gives these invisible forces much more control in our world to work their destruction, well yes, that makes sense.

[BigHamster]

Well put Kurieuo. If you ever write a book, you could use that last post as an intro

[puddleglum]

Sometimes illness in a result of sin and sometimes it isn't. It is clear that the blind man wasn't suffering for his sins but chapter 5 of John tells of Jesus healing a paralyzed man and one thing Jesus said to him indicates that his paralysis might have been caused by sin.

Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”
(John 5:14 ESV)

It appears to me that it is a waste of time to try to figure out the reasons God does the things he does.

[Kurieuo]

Welcome puddleglum.

[BigHamster]

Sometimes illness in a result of sin and sometimes it isn't. It is clear that the blind man wasn't suffering for his sins but chapter 5 of John tells of Jesus healing a paralyzed man and one thing Jesus said to him indicates that his paralysis might have been caused by sin.

Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”
(John 5:14 ESV)

It appears to me that it is a waste of time to try to figure out the reasons God does the things he does.

There are 2 possibilities here. 1. God can violate his own laws or 2. the laws he has, we don't understand that well.

I think 2. is more likely.

1. could lead us to a ................... Judge Dredd !

[Danieltwotwenty]

Sometimes illness in a result of sin and sometimes it isn't. It is clear that the blind man wasn't suffering for his sins but chapter 5 of John tells of Jesus healing a paralyzed man and one thing Jesus said to him indicates that his paralysis might have been caused by sin.

Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”
(John 5:14 ESV)

It appears to me that it is a waste of time to try to figure out the reasons God does the things he does.

I kind of see it like sin has consequences, like maybe the guy was paralysed because he was a drunkard and accidentally drank spirits with methanol in it, or maybe some sexually transmitted disease. Jesus healed his condition and told him to sin no more and if he continued to do so this may happen again.