Is Belief in God Delusional or Non-Belief?

[Kenny]

The parts of the bible I mentioned, I do understand.

Ken

Which parts are those Ken?

Back on page 6, date 09/16/16 at 4:21pm I mentioned a few things. As I told him before, what I see as evidence may not be credible evidence to anyone else, but it is to me. And since I am not trying to convince anyone else I am not required to provide evidence to anyone else’s satisfaction.

Ken

[PaulSacramento]

The parts of the bible I mentioned, I do understand.

Ken

Which parts are those Ken?

Back on page 6, date 09/16/16 at 4:21pm I mentioned a few things. As I told him before, what I see as evidence may not be credible evidence to anyone else, but it is to me. And since I am not trying to convince anyone else I am not required to provide evidence to anyone else’s satisfaction.

Ken

I am sorry ken but I don't see any comments about the bible there, maybe I missed them...

[RickD]

Paul,

I believe this is the post Kenny was referring to. I found it on page 7. 9/16/16 7:21pm on my time:

Below is some of the evidence I see that tells me Christianity isn’t what you believe it is.
Some of the stories in the Bible like Jonah and the Whale, or Noah’s Ark, or Joshua causing the Sun to sit still during war? Those stories don’t sound realistic to me. And before you go saying all those stories are allegory or just stories designed to make a point; remember Jesus compared his death to Jonah in the Whale (Matthew 12:40) and he also compared his return to Noah’s Ark (Matthew 24:37-39). So if Jesus believed it, so should all Christians.

God is said to be Omniscient, (all knowing) Yet he is known to have exhibited surprise, jealousy, even choosing to change his mind; something flawed humans do because we are NOT omniscient, we continue to learn.
God is said to be Omnipresent, (present everywhere) yet he was able to pass by Moses allowing him only to see his backside; suggesting he was able to go to a place where he was not.
God is said to be Omnibenovelent, (all good) But when I read about the mistreatment of Job, Adam and Eve, the treatment of the people of Egypt and countless others; that doesn’t sound realistic either.
He is also said to be omnipotent (unlimited power) Yet he allows his enemy (Devil) to have more influence over his children than he does.

It doesn’t make sense to me that he is any of those things because if he were, I believe he would have done things differently. IOW when I read what the Bible says about God, the best of my understanding tells me the Bible is not true, and if the Bible is not true, why would I believe what the Bible describes as God IS God?

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 39#p208739

[abelcainsbrother]

Nope I'm responding to your post.Russell's teapot is where this idea that atheists don't have to have any evidence they are right and are excluded from needing any evidence came from,you accept and live your life by,only people who believe in God have the burden of proof according to atheists/agnostics/skeptics and you.

I don't get my ideas from a tea pot, I get them from reason and logic. As I said before, the only time an Atheist isn't required to provide evidence is when he is not making claims. If you don't like being the only one in the conversation required to provide evidence, quit making claims! Yes it's as simple as that.

Ken

Reason and logic? How? You choose to be atheist and do not care if you are right or wrong for choosing to be one because you think that if you don't make a claim you're excluded from needing any evidence.

I told you countless times about my evidence and all you do is ignore me and go back to claiming I have no evidence.

I think you were propagandized now to think the way you do because the teapot is where this exclusion for needing evidence for skeptics came from.It is delusional thinking.

If I were the type to fall for propaganda, I would be listening to you.


Ken

You explaining parts of the bible you don't understand is not evidence you are right to reject god's.

The parts of the bible I mentioned, I do understand.

Ken

I'm not so sure,but it still is not evidence atheism is the correct choice for you to make,you have no evidence you are right or not choosing to reject god's and think you are excluded from needing any evidence,so how could you know when you are confronted with evidence for God?I mean you accept atheism without any evidence,why not God? Why are you biased and give atheism a pass when it comes to evidence but not God?You know atheism is not true already while overlooking or ignoring evidence Christianity is true.There is a lot more evidence Christianity is true,yet you accept atheism knowing there is none. This is a double standard you choose and you do not care if you are right having no evidence and Jesus made salvation easy for anyone who will believe in him.

[Kenny]

I don't get my ideas from a tea pot, I get them from reason and logic. As I said before, the only time an Atheist isn't required to provide evidence is when he is not making claims. If you don't like being the only one in the conversation required to provide evidence, quit making claims! Yes it's as simple as that.

Ken

Reason and logic? How? You choose to be atheist and do not care if you are right or wrong for choosing to be one because you think that if you don't make a claim you're excluded from needing any evidence.

I told you countless times about my evidence and all you do is ignore me and go back to claiming I have no evidence.

I think you were propagandized now to think the way you do because the teapot is where this exclusion for needing evidence for skeptics came from.It is delusional thinking.

If I were the type to fall for propaganda, I would be listening to you.


Ken

You explaining parts of the bible you don't understand is not evidence you are right to reject god's.

The parts of the bible I mentioned, I do understand.

Ken

I'm not so sure,but it still is not evidence atheism is the correct choice for you to make,you have no evidence you are right or not choosing to reject god's and think you are excluded from needing any evidence,so how could you know when you are confronted with evidence for God?I mean you accept atheism without any evidence,why not God? Why are you biased and give atheism a pass when it comes to evidence but not God?You know atheism is not true already while overlooking or ignoring evidence Christianity is true.There is a lot more evidence Christianity is true,yet you accept atheism knowing there is none. This is a double standard you choose and you do not care if you are right having no evidence and Jesus made salvation easy for anyone who will believe in him.

I don't choose atheism, Atheism is the default position for me.

Ken

[Kurieuo]

I don't choose atheism, Atheism is the default position for me.

I don't know about that Kenny, having your head stuck in the ground still requires being in a certain position.

[Kenny]

I don't choose atheism, Atheism is the default position for me.

I don't know about that Kenny, having your head stuck in the ground still requires being in a certain position.

If I did have my head stuck in the ground, which I do not; but just for kicks, lets suppose I did have my head stuck in the ground. Which position does that entail I take?

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

I told you countless times about my evidence and all you do is ignore me and go back to claiming I have no evidence.


If I were the type to fall for propaganda, I would be listening to you.


Ken

You explaining parts of the bible you don't understand is not evidence you are right to reject god's.

The parts of the bible I mentioned, I do understand.

Ken

I'm not so sure,but it still is not evidence atheism is the correct choice for you to make,you have no evidence you are right or not choosing to reject god's and think you are excluded from needing any evidence,so how could you know when you are confronted with evidence for God?I mean you accept atheism without any evidence,why not God? Why are you biased and give atheism a pass when it comes to evidence but not God?You know atheism is not true already while overlooking or ignoring evidence Christianity is true.There is a lot more evidence Christianity is true,yet you accept atheism knowing there is none. This is a double standard you choose and you do not care if you are right having no evidence and Jesus made salvation easy for anyone who will believe in him.

I don't choose atheism, Atheism is the default position for me.

Ken

You contradicted yourself. Why hide behind the default wall when evidence to know we are right or not is so important?How can it be a default position for you when you've chosen it?

[Kurieuo]

I don't choose atheism, Atheism is the default position for me.

I don't know about that Kenny, having your head stuck in the ground still requires being in a certain position.

If I did have my head stuck in the ground, which I do not; but just for kicks, lets suppose I did have my head stuck in the ground. Which position does that entail I take?

It is a position that is anti-God and knowledge thereof:

• For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (Romans 1:20-21)

[Kenny]

You explaining parts of the bible you don't understand is not evidence you are right to reject god's.

The parts of the bible I mentioned, I do understand.

Ken

I'm not so sure,but it still is not evidence atheism is the correct choice for you to make,you have no evidence you are right or not choosing to reject god's and think you are excluded from needing any evidence,so how could you know when you are confronted with evidence for God?I mean you accept atheism without any evidence,why not God? Why are you biased and give atheism a pass when it comes to evidence but not God?You know atheism is not true already while overlooking or ignoring evidence Christianity is true.There is a lot more evidence Christianity is true,yet you accept atheism knowing there is none. This is a double standard you choose and you do not care if you are right having no evidence and Jesus made salvation easy for anyone who will believe in him.

I don't choose atheism, Atheism is the default position for me.

Ken

You contradicted yourself. Why hide behind the default wall when evidence to know we are right or not is so important?How can it be a default position for you when you've chosen it?

I am not hiding behind a wall, I will gladly point out flaws I see in anybody's claim that I do not agree with. I’ve heard many of your claims/evidence, and I’ve found them lacking and unrealistic, and I remember pointing that out to you at that time. Again, I don’t choose atheism, it is the default position.


Ken

[Kenny]

I don't choose atheism, Atheism is the default position for me.

I don't know about that Kenny, having your head stuck in the ground still requires being in a certain position.

If I did have my head stuck in the ground, which I do not; but just for kicks, lets suppose I did have my head stuck in the ground. Which position does that entail I take?

It is a position that is anti-God and knowledge thereof:

• For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (Romans 1:20-21)

Not sure of the purpose of quoting bible scriptures, but just because I am skeptical of your God claims, doesn't mean I am anti-God. And I've talked to a lot of theists who have their heads stuck in the ground; so obviously that doesn't make you Anti-God.

Ken

[Kurieuo]

We know where each other stands Kenny, I'm not trying to convince you. We can respectfully disagree with each other.

However, it is my belief that you are anti-God. Anyone who does not see God, their hearts are darkened and they're running away from and trying to bury a knowledge of God which is born witness to deep within our very being. So anyone who doesn't believe in God, that God exists, such I see as anti-God. Their turning away from God leads to them not seeing God who is in fact evident, and their failure to acknowledge God leads the hearts of such a person being darkened further to such knowledge. It's like a downward spiral.

I know you'll disagree and expect you to, nonetheless such is my position and furthermore Scripture explains it this way as you can see in the words of Paul in Romans 1:20-21.

[Kenny]

We know where each other stands Kenny, I'm not trying to convince you. We can respectfully disagree with each other.

However, it is my belief that you are anti-God. Anyone who does not see God, their hearts are darkened and they're running away from and trying to bury a knowledge of God which is born witness to deep within our very being. So anyone who doesn't believe in God, that God exists, such I see as anti-God. Their turning away from God leads to them not seeing God who is in fact evident, and their failure to acknowledge God leads the hearts of such a person being darkened further to such knowledge. It's like a downward spiral.

I know you'll disagree and expect you to, nonetheless such is my position and furthermore Scripture explains it this way as you can see in the words of Paul in Romans 1:20-21.

Like you said, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to your subjective opinion.

Ken

[abelcainsbrother]

The parts of the bible I mentioned, I do understand.

Ken

I'm not so sure,but it still is not evidence atheism is the correct choice for you to make,you have no evidence you are right or not choosing to reject god's and think you are excluded from needing any evidence,so how could you know when you are confronted with evidence for God?I mean you accept atheism without any evidence,why not God? Why are you biased and give atheism a pass when it comes to evidence but not God?You know atheism is not true already while overlooking or ignoring evidence Christianity is true.There is a lot more evidence Christianity is true,yet you accept atheism knowing there is none. This is a double standard you choose and you do not care if you are right having no evidence and Jesus made salvation easy for anyone who will believe in him.

I don't choose atheism, Atheism is the default position for me.

Ken

You contradicted yourself. Why hide behind the default wall when evidence to know we are right or not is so important?How can it be a default position for you when you've chosen it?

I am not hiding behind a wall, I will gladly point out flaws I see in anybody's claim that I do not agree with. I’ve heard many of your claims/evidence, and I’ve found them lacking and unrealistic, and I remember pointing that out to you at that time. Again, I don’t choose atheism, it is the default position.


Ken

Your wall you're hiding behind prevents you from seeing your own flaws,which is no evidence to even have flaws in order to choose the default position you've chosen.

[Kurieuo]

We know where each other stands Kenny, I'm not trying to convince you. We can respectfully disagree with each other.

However, it is my belief that you are anti-God. Anyone who does not see God, their hearts are darkened and they're running away from and trying to bury a knowledge of God which is born witness to deep within our very being. So anyone who doesn't believe in God, that God exists, such I see as anti-God. Their turning away from God leads to them not seeing God who is in fact evident, and their failure to acknowledge God leads the hearts of such a person being darkened further to such knowledge. It's like a downward spiral.

I know you'll disagree and expect you to, nonetheless such is my position and furthermore Scripture explains it this way as you can see in the words of Paul in Romans 1:20-21.

Like you said, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to your subjective opinion.

As you are yours, but I don't consider your anti-Godism means you're an enemy. "Anti-" sounds harsh, but I don't think you'd be unfriendly to me in anyway, and you don't seem unfriendly on this board to people. Likewise I'd treat you as a friend if we ever met and happily share drinks with you. I'm sure we'd have much more interesting discussions than most other people, although we'd evidently disagree on much.