Is God responsible?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
Kenny
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Kenny »

Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:Atheists, agnostics...

If there was a God, would He be responsible for your lack of faith in Him?
If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken
B. W. wrote: man left his home the forest and traveled to a far away land where there were no forest. If one walked away from the trees in the forest and chose to live in a desert, does the forest still exist?
Yes
B. W. wrote:One can deny the existence of trees only at the expense of ignoring the evidence that trees exist.

Who walked away from whom would be a better question and why.-
If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by RickD »

Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken
So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct? You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?


You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow




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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Audie »

RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken
So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct? You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?


You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?
Likewise for those who used to be atheists, after having been a Christian, but are now Christians again.
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Kenny »

Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken
RickD wrote:So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct?
Hummm... How are you defining "Christian"?
RickD wrote:You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?
Of course I did! That's what all Christians do.
RickD wrote:You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?
Yes; but in my case, I trusted in Christ, and believed in God based on what people I trusted told me.
RickD wrote:So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?
No; that would be incorrect.

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Kenny »

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken
So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct? You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?


You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?
Likewise for those who used to be atheists, after having been a Christian, but are now Christians again.
Excellent point!

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Kenny »

Jac3510 wrote:Maybe I could choose to believe God does not exist so that I can give an answer to the OP.

Trying to believe God doesn't exist . . .

Trying . . .

Still trying . . .

Trying really, really, really hard . . .


Well. That was a waste of time. Sorry, Nessa. Couldn't do it. Pretend I didn't post this.
Excellent point about the old argument of "choosing what we believe"

K
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Audie »

Kenny wrote:
Jac3510 wrote:Maybe I could choose to believe God does not exist so that I can give an answer to the OP.

Trying to believe God doesn't exist . . .

Trying . . .

Still trying . . .

Trying really, really, really hard . . .


Well. That was a waste of time. Sorry, Nessa. Couldn't do it. Pretend I didn't post this.
Excellent point about the old argument of "choosing what we believe"

K

There's three people who can see this simple concept. Any others?
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by B. W. »

Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:Atheists, agnostics...

If there was a God, would He be responsible for your lack of faith in Him?
If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken
B. W. wrote: man left his home the forest and traveled to a far away land where there were no forest. If one walked away from the trees in the forest and chose to live in a desert, does the forest still exist?
Yes
B. W. wrote:One can deny the existence of trees only at the expense of ignoring the evidence that trees exist.

Who walked away from whom would be a better question and why.-
If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken
Ken, you answered your own comments and line of questioning...
Kenny wrote:...If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken
You walked away so how can you blame God for your own acts?
-
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

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Not my Circus....not my monkeys
Kenny
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Kenny »

B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Nessa wrote:Atheists, agnostics...

If there was a God, would He be responsible for your lack of faith in Him?
If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken
B. W. wrote: man left his home the forest and traveled to a far away land where there were no forest. If one walked away from the trees in the forest and chose to live in a desert, does the forest still exist?
Yes
B. W. wrote:One can deny the existence of trees only at the expense of ignoring the evidence that trees exist.

Who walked away from whom would be a better question and why.-
If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken
Ken, you answered your own comments and line of questioning...
Kenny wrote:...If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken
You walked away so how can you blame God for your own acts?
B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken
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"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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B. W.
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by B. W. »

Kenny wrote:B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken
You are too :lol:

Have a great day Ken!
-
-
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
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Kenny
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Kenny »

B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken
You are too :lol:

Have a great day Ken!
No; I am quite aware I am talking to a Christian. Let me ask you; how can an atheist blame a God he is convinced doesn't exist? How can an atheist walk away from a God he is convinced does not exist? I was speaking hypothetically.

Ken
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by B. W. »

Kenny wrote:
B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken
You are too :lol:

Have a great day Ken!
....Let me ask you; how can an atheist blame a God he is convinced doesn't exist?

How can an atheist walk away from a God he is convinced does not exist?

I was speaking hypothetically.

Ken
Look in the mirror and read your own answer out loud to your self...

In that you will discover the answer.
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-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Audie »

B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:
B. W. wrote:
Kenny wrote:B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken
You are too :lol:

Have a great day Ken!
....Let me ask you; how can an atheist blame a God he is convinced doesn't exist?

How can an atheist walk away from a God he is convinced does not exist?

I was speaking hypothetically.

Ken
Look in the mirror and read your own answer out loud to your self...

In that you will discover the answer.
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Are you saying, then, that ken is not really an atheist?
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by 1over137 »

This thread reminded me an old conversation with my old wise friend around 10 years ago when still being unbeliever

Hana: I do not desire to live without God. But it all starts with the big IF. IF he is then.... And besides, how can I reject something which is not being offered to me, or at least, do not see that it is being offered to me? It is like: choose number 11 out of numbers 1 up to 10. 11 is not in the set of offered numbers, so how can you choose that? But anyway, it's just my responsibility and no-one else's for what will happen with me
John: That it is offered to you is undeniable. If you do not see it, that is a different problem and must be addressed separately

Lol.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart
Kenny
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Re: Is God responsible?

Post by Kenny »

1over137 wrote:This thread reminded me an old conversation with my old wise friend around 10 years ago when still being unbeliever

Hana: I do not desire to live without God. But it all starts with the big IF. IF he is then.... And besides, how can I reject something which is not being offered to me, or at least, do not see that it is being offered to me? It is like: choose number 11 out of numbers 1 up to 10. 11 is not in the set of offered numbers, so how can you choose that? But anyway, it's just my responsibility and no-one else's for what will happen with me
John: That it is offered to you is undeniable. If you do not see it, that is a different problem and must be addressed separately

Lol.
Who is Hana, and who is John?

Ken
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