Is God responsible?

[Kenny]

Atheists, agnostics...

If there was a God, would He be responsible for your lack of faith in Him?

If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken

man left his home the forest and traveled to a far away land where there were no forest. If one walked away from the trees in the forest and chose to live in a desert, does the forest still exist?

Yes

One can deny the existence of trees only at the expense of ignoring the evidence that trees exist.

Who walked away from whom would be a better question and why.-

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken

[RickD]

Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken

So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct? You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?


You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?

[Audie]

Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken

So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct? You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?


You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?

Likewise for those who used to be atheists, after having been a Christian, but are now Christians again.

[Kenny]

Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken

So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct?

Hummm... How are you defining "Christian"?

You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?

Of course I did! That's what all Christians do.

You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

Yes; but in my case, I trusted in Christ, and believed in God based on what people I trusted told me.

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?

No; that would be incorrect.

Ken

[Kenny]

Kenny wrote:

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken

So Kenny, be honest. You were never a Christian, like you said you were, correct? You never placed your faith in Jesus Christ. You never actually trusted in him, did you?


You do understand that there's a difference between trusting in Christ, and just believing God exists, because people you trusted, told you He existed?

So in reality, this whole, "I used to be a Christian" schpeel is false, correct?

Likewise for those who used to be atheists, after having been a Christian, but are now Christians again.

Excellent point!

Ken

[Kenny]

Maybe I could choose to believe God does not exist so that I can give an answer to the OP.

Trying to believe God doesn't exist . . .

Trying . . .

Still trying . . .

Trying really, really, really hard . . .

Well. That was a waste of time. Sorry, Nessa. Couldn't do it. Pretend I didn't post this.

Excellent point about the old argument of "choosing what we believe"

K

[Audie]

Maybe I could choose to believe God does not exist so that I can give an answer to the OP.

Trying to believe God doesn't exist . . .

Trying . . .

Still trying . . .

Trying really, really, really hard . . .

Well. That was a waste of time. Sorry, Nessa. Couldn't do it. Pretend I didn't post this.

Excellent point about the old argument of "choosing what we believe"

K

There's three people who can see this simple concept. Any others?

[B. W.]

Atheists, agnostics...

If there was a God, would He be responsible for your lack of faith in Him?

If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken

man left his home the forest and traveled to a far away land where there were no forest. If one walked away from the trees in the forest and chose to live in a desert, does the forest still exist?

Yes

One can deny the existence of trees only at the expense of ignoring the evidence that trees exist.

Who walked away from whom would be a better question and why.-

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken

Ken, you answered your own comments and line of questioning...

...If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken

You walked away so how can you blame God for your own acts?
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[Kenny]

Atheists, agnostics...

If there was a God, would He be responsible for your lack of faith in Him?

If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken

man left his home the forest and traveled to a far away land where there were no forest. If one walked away from the trees in the forest and chose to live in a desert, does the forest still exist?

Yes

One can deny the existence of trees only at the expense of ignoring the evidence that trees exist.

Who walked away from whom would be a better question and why.-

If you are referring to the previous conversations we had about my previous theistic beliefs, using your forest analogy; I never saw any trees, I just believed they were there because everybody I believed in and trusted told me the trees were there. So it’s not like I actually walked away from any trees, I just walked away from the BELIEF that there were trees.

Ken

Ken, you answered your own comments and line of questioning...

...If we assume God exists and he wants us to know he exists, then I would say he is to blame for whatever non-belief one might have. However if God exists, I would not assume he wants us to know he exists because of how well he has remained hidden; thus there would be no blame because it is all by design.

Ken

You walked away so how can you blame God for your own acts?

B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken

[B. W.]

B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken

You are too

Have a great day Ken!
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[Kenny]

B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken

You are too

Have a great day Ken!

No; I am quite aware I am talking to a Christian. Let me ask you; how can an atheist blame a God he is convinced doesn't exist? How can an atheist walk away from a God he is convinced does not exist? I was speaking hypothetically.

Ken

[B. W.]

B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken

You are too

Have a great day Ken!

....Let me ask you; how can an atheist blame a God he is convinced doesn't exist?

How can an atheist walk away from a God he is convinced does not exist?

I was speaking hypothetically.

Ken

Look in the mirror and read your own answer out loud to your self...

In that you will discover the answer.
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[Audie]

B.W. my friend! You seem to be forgetting who you are talking to here.

Ken

You are too

Have a great day Ken!

....Let me ask you; how can an atheist blame a God he is convinced doesn't exist?

How can an atheist walk away from a God he is convinced does not exist?

I was speaking hypothetically.

Ken

Look in the mirror and read your own answer out loud to your self...

In that you will discover the answer.
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Are you saying, then, that ken is not really an atheist?

[1over137]

This thread reminded me an old conversation with my old wise friend around 10 years ago when still being unbeliever

Hana: I do not desire to live without God. But it all starts with the big IF. IF he is then.... And besides, how can I reject something which is not being offered to me, or at least, do not see that it is being offered to me? It is like: choose number 11 out of numbers 1 up to 10. 11 is not in the set of offered numbers, so how can you choose that? But anyway, it's just my responsibility and no-one else's for what will happen with me
John: That it is offered to you is undeniable. If you do not see it, that is a different problem and must be addressed separately

Lol.

[Kenny]

This thread reminded me an old conversation with my old wise friend around 10 years ago when still being unbeliever

Hana: I do not desire to live without God. But it all starts with the big IF. IF he is then.... And besides, how can I reject something which is not being offered to me, or at least, do not see that it is being offered to me? It is like: choose number 11 out of numbers 1 up to 10. 11 is not in the set of offered numbers, so how can you choose that? But anyway, it's just my responsibility and no-one else's for what will happen with me
John: That it is offered to you is undeniable. If you do not see it, that is a different problem and must be addressed separately

Lol.

Who is Hana, and who is John?

Ken