Types of atheism

[Kenny]

It is true all religions have a moral code,the difference is in Christianity the person does not change their self like in all other religions. In other words say you decided to be a Buddhist,Hindu,Muslim,etc you would be taught about that religions laws,etc and you would change yourself in order to live as close as you could to them laws,if you took it serious. While in Christianity this will not work and a person would be lost if they did like the other religions.You must be born again in Christianity and when it happens the person is changed on the inside to serve God. This is a very big difference that people overlook.

So lemme see if I've got this straight; with other religions you change yourself, with christianity, you change on the inside. Sounds the same to me.

Ken

You can't see a difference? It is a big difference that is often overlooked. This is because no other god paid for our salvation in full like our God did through Jesus,and so the people in other religions think their religious works justifies them,but it doesn't.Jesus made salvation way,way too easy for religious people and even certain Christians bring their works into salvation like it justifies them more than others when it doesn't. Nothing we can do can add to or justify us more than Jesus already did.It is the change on the inside of a person that leads them to serve God when they are born again/saved by Jesus. The difference is vast.

This is why the gospel is good news and not bad news like in all other religions where you must live a certain way according to that religion,your whole life the best you can your whole life.

More Than Works. For you,music is a great way to get the message to somebody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li_h3D7BJ0c

All religions are different in many ways, and the same in others. One could just as easily point out how religion X is different than all others; even yours.

Ken

[Kenny]

What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken

Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.

As in, you know it to be the case that the morality of no other people than the Christians
is extended to strangers?

Nope, look at what I wrote:
Tribal religions tended to be focused on the group and their moral codes applied to the group and not to outsiders.
Originally and typically.

What are some of these "tribal religions" that you speak of?

Ken

[Audie]

What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken

Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.

Though you may be an expert on Christianity, you appear quite ignorant of many of the other religious beliefs.

Ken

Actually, comparative religion was a standard course and I got a 92%, not perfect but better than average.

I got a hundred percent on the test I took to get my doctor of divinity degree.

[PaulSacramento]

What do you mean when you say all the other religions moral base is tribal, but the christian moral base is for all? Are you under the impression all the other religious worshippers claim their moral base is for them only and not for everybody else? or am I misunderstanding you.

Ken

Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.

Though you may be an expert on Christianity, you appear quite ignorant of many of the other religious beliefs.

Ken

Actually, comparative religion was a standard course and I got a 92%, not perfect but better than average.

I got a hundred percent on the test I took to get my doctor of divinity degree.

I don't think I care for your tone.
Getting my masters in theological studies was no joke and neither is getting any degree in theology.

[B. W.]

Religions are parasitic?
Well, I don't think that something abstract ie: non-material, can be parasitic.
People can of course and something like religion or ANY ideology can be used in a parasitic way.

We could get into semantics, but I am satisfied that you at least dont go with that mean spirited crap about atheists as moral parasites.

Cuts both ways, militant atheist are just as guilty in their "mean spirited crap about Christians being moral parasites" too.

Big argument I used to use against Christians was the presupposition that Christians want to force their moral codes upon the rest of the world. I looked at a few weirdo types and supposed all were like this. Then one day, someone revealed by comparison what Christianity really is about. Of course, as I drank my beer and blew cigarette smoke in his face, I smugly held to my Christianphobic view. In reality, I could not answer because all people living under the terms this man presented would make for a really nice place to live.

I presented a few verses to you all regarding what that would look like such as Isaiah 61:1-4...

I also challenge Christians to simply trust God that he gave us the ability to live doing these as it is possible because he does the works thru us.

Sadly what is passed off in the majority of the modern Christian Church world is 'inability' and thus most view the church as a joke nowadays. So I am pitted against that segment of believers who believe in inability, teach it, etc and etc, too. I do not find that this 'inability' is the norm but rather a justification for retreat.

The USA and the world suffers from this retreat: dead babies (unborn), dead cops, all sexual transmitted disease spreading like wildfire thru promotion of sexual immorality, dominate sexual homosexuals deceiving others in a state of emotional weakness to be their partners (Law enforcement community cannot even express the brutality of homosexual crimes, nor discuss the love letters they send, nor the twisted view of love used to control, nor the diseases). The church retreats from standing against political abuse of power.

Retreats from showing that living any old way one pleases as a right is national, cultural, and social suicide. Retreats from standing against the violence glorified and sold in the media. Retreats from its duty to be salt and light midst a dark world where Isaiah 61:1-4 is the norm because: He who is in us is greater than He who is in the world.

So I do not blame or condemn atheists for pointing out the faults of the modern Church as it serves to us a good slap in the face to wake up to who we really are in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ literally saved my life. I deserved it not the least. I admit I was an real a-sh-l- way back then and lived like the world. However, Jesus saved me, he rescued me from myself and during this mortal sojourn here on earth makes me whole and sound. I go about sharing this power to others. Seen him make others whole and get thru really hard times. Seen great healing too as well as him saying no to a few too. Most importantly I have seen him change the worst in people and make them of sound mind while having to contend with the phony ministers who make a mockery of God's gift's of the Holy Spirit (many of which we have exposed and discussed here).

I know what the Lord can do and does do. Just grasping how he desires for us to arise - shine - Isa 60:1 and how in order for us to arise into him so we shine forth who he is by our very lives that he allows darkness to fall - Isa 60:2 - so that all artificial light we make is extinguished so that his people can become, Isa 60:3,4 note John 6:65 so we can become Matthew 5:14,15,16 returning to what he originally intended - Gen 1:26-31 by the reconciling work of the cross.

For demonstrating and challenging the world to become a better place, I am forcefully told to shut up by the media, by the courts, by militant atheist, by political party's selling rights, and yes, by fellow Christians content to preach compromise with the world system just to prove love.

Sorry, no can do. You see, I do not care which makes me dangerous and bold enough to proclaim the gospel of liberation from darkness so Isa 61:1-4 is lived as reality and many find true freedom from the darkness holding them down.

So what will it take for you a person to come to Christ Jesus, how much darkness must fall before they are sealed forever as his own or sealed as his enemies?

What will it take for a person to believe? Maybe the shedding of presuppositions for starters more than winning the Lottery or having God dance to one's tune... Or Maybe it takes the shedding of one's philosophic based self-love?

Eternity is a long time without end and into eternity all humans on earth must travel.God will not allow your self-love to ruin heaven as it did paradise. One can blame God for making us with the reason of free moral will but if he did not, then he would not be absolutely Just. Just in letting things play out in peoples lives so they can either wake up to arise to him so we can shine his ways or let one pass away as an enemy forever. Fair is fair.

I respect Audie and yes even Ken and I hope Audie can realize that not Christians are not moral monsters tyrants. I already no that most atheist are not militant atheist fundamentalist...

I am going to take a short break from the forum as life has me busy for a moment so it may take a bit for me to respond...

Blessings
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[Audie]

Religions are parasitic?
Well, I don't think that something abstract ie: non-material, can be parasitic.
People can of course and something like religion or ANY ideology can be used in a parasitic way.

We could get into semantics, but I am satisfied that you at least dont go with that mean spirited crap about atheists as moral parasites.

Cuts both ways, militant atheist are just as guilty in their "mean spirited crap about Christians being moral parasites" too.

I wasnt aware that anyone ever said that of Christians, but pooey on both camps.

Big argument I used to use against Christians was the presupposition that Christians want to force their moral codes upon the rest of the world.

It is as an historic complain, valid enough

I looked at a few weirdo types and supposed all were like this. Then one day, someone revealed by comparison what Christianity really is about. Of course, as I drank my beer and blew cigarette smoke in his face, I smugly held to my Christianphobic view.

Hmm, sounds notthing like anything i ever thought or would have done.

In reality,
I could not answer because all people living under the terms this man presented would make for a really nice place to live.

I've known p[eople, Christian and not, of whom that could be said.
Maybe someday, the human race will improve itself to that level and beyond.

The USA and the world suffers from this retreat: dead babies (unborn), dead cops, all sexual transmitted disease spreading like wildfire thru promotion of sexual immorality, dominate sexual homosexuals deceiving others in a state of emotional weakness to be their partners

Experienced that last one myself, and from a counselor, at that. sheesh.

So I do not blame or condemn atheists for pointing out the faults of the modern Church as it serves to us a good slap in the face to wake up to who we really are in Jesus Christ.

maybe could use another slap or two.

Jesus Christ literally saved my life. I deserved it not the least. I admit I was an real a-sh-l- way back then and lived like the world. However, Jesus saved me, he rescued me from myself and during this mortal sojourn here on earth makes me whole and sound.

And I am so glad you were saved from yourself.

For demonstrating and challenging the world to become a better place, I am forcefully told to shut up by the media, by the courts, by militant atheist, by political party's selling rights, and yes, by fellow Christians content to preach compromise with the world system just to prove love.

not surprising

Sorry, no can do. You see, I do not care which makes me dangerous and bold enough to proclaim the gospel of liberation from darkness so Isa 61:1-4 is lived as reality and many find true freedom from the darkness holding them down.

admirable

So what will it take for you a person to come to Christ Jesus, how much darkness must fall before they are sealed forever as his own or sealed as his enemies?

What will it take for a person to believe? Maybe the shedding of presuppositions for starters more than winning the Lottery or having God dance to one's tune... Or Maybe it takes the shedding of one's philosophic based self-love?

"philosophic based self-love". No, that isnt it.

I respect Audie and yes even Ken and I hope Audie can realize that not Christians are not moral monsters tyrants. I already no that most atheist are not militant atheist fundamentalist...

That isnt it anyway. I just dont believe the story that any religion tells.

I am going to take a short break from the forum as life has me busy for a moment so it may take a bit for me to respond...

Blessings

Wishing you the best
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[Audie]

Something along those lines, yes, typically and originally.

Though you may be an expert on Christianity, you appear quite ignorant of many of the other religious beliefs.

Ken

Actually, comparative religion was a standard course and I got a 92%, not perfect but better than average.

I got a hundred percent on the test I took to get my doctor of divinity degree.

I don't think I care for your tone.
Getting my masters in theological studies was no joke and neither is getting any degree in theology.

A mistake I made in universtiy was not taking a comparative religion course.

Mom recommended that I do so, but I never fitted it in.

I meant no disrespect to you, with what was a rather pointless quip on my part.

[abelcainsbrother]

It is true all religions have a moral code,the difference is in Christianity the person does not change their self like in all other religions. In other words say you decided to be a Buddhist,Hindu,Muslim,etc you would be taught about that religions laws,etc and you would change yourself in order to live as close as you could to them laws,if you took it serious. While in Christianity this will not work and a person would be lost if they did like the other religions.You must be born again in Christianity and when it happens the person is changed on the inside to serve God. This is a very big difference that people overlook.

So lemme see if I've got this straight; with other religions you change yourself, with christianity, you change on the inside. Sounds the same to me.

Ken

You can't see a difference? It is a big difference that is often overlooked. This is because no other god paid for our salvation in full like our God did through Jesus,and so the people in other religions think their religious works justifies them,but it doesn't.Jesus made salvation way,way too easy for religious people and even certain Christians bring their works into salvation like it justifies them more than others when it doesn't. Nothing we can do can add to or justify us more than Jesus already did.It is the change on the inside of a person that leads them to serve God when they are born again/saved by Jesus. The difference is vast.

This is why the gospel is good news and not bad news like in all other religions where you must live a certain way according to that religion,your whole life the best you can your whole life.

More Than Works. For you,music is a great way to get the message to somebody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li_h3D7BJ0c

All religions are different in many ways, and the same in others. One could just as easily point out how religion X is different than all others; even yours.

Ken

You must not know about religions then to say that.Because ALL of the other religions teach works as a matter of fact this is how you peg false religions, including Jehovah Witnesses and Mormonism,they are no different than Islam,Hinduism,etc they all teach works for salvation,only Christianity says already DONE for you by Jesus,just believe and receive it.Religion = Do! Jesus says DONE!

[Kenny]

It is true all religions have a moral code,the difference is in Christianity the person does not change their self like in all other religions. In other words say you decided to be a Buddhist,Hindu,Muslim,etc you would be taught about that religions laws,etc and you would change yourself in order to live as close as you could to them laws,if you took it serious. While in Christianity this will not work and a person would be lost if they did like the other religions.You must be born again in Christianity and when it happens the person is changed on the inside to serve God. This is a very big difference that people overlook.

So lemme see if I've got this straight; with other religions you change yourself, with christianity, you change on the inside. Sounds the same to me.

Ken

You can't see a difference? It is a big difference that is often overlooked. This is because no other god paid for our salvation in full like our God did through Jesus,and so the people in other religions think their religious works justifies them,but it doesn't.Jesus made salvation way,way too easy for religious people and even certain Christians bring their works into salvation like it justifies them more than others when it doesn't. Nothing we can do can add to or justify us more than Jesus already did.It is the change on the inside of a person that leads them to serve God when they are born again/saved by Jesus. The difference is vast.

This is why the gospel is good news and not bad news like in all other religions where you must live a certain way according to that religion,your whole life the best you can your whole life.

More Than Works. For you,music is a great way to get the message to somebody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li_h3D7BJ0c

All religions are different in many ways, and the same in others. One could just as easily point out how religion X is different than all others; even yours.

Ken

You must not know about religions then to say that.Because ALL of the other religions teach works as a matter of fact this is how you peg false religions, including Jehovah Witnesses and Mormonism,they are no different than Islam,Hinduism,etc they all teach works for salvation,only Christianity says already DONE for you by Jesus,just believe and receive it.Religion = Do! Jesus says DONE!

So what you do doesn’t matter, all you gotta do is believe huh?

A self proclaimed feminist once told me the definition of feminism is one who believes women should be treated equal to men. I then asked her if a feminist can be against abortion. She began to stutter, change the subject, and tried to make the “leap” that to be against a woman’s right to choose is the same as to be against equality of the sexes.
I’ve heard many feminists make her initial claim, but when you dig a little deeper, you find out the feminist agenda is much more than just equality of the sexes.

I’ve heard many Christians claim works doesn’t matter, all you gotta do is believe, but when you dig a little deeper, it seems there is a lot more required than just believing; often the “leap” is made that believing equals attempting to live according to God’s word etc. etc. because they don’t want to claim evil men like Hitler, or Gacy, could make it in as long as they believed while they were committing their acts of atrocities. So I hope you understand my skepticism.

Ken

[Audie]

So lemme see if I've got this straight; with other religions you change yourself, with christianity, you change on the inside. Sounds the same to me.

Ken

You can't see a difference? It is a big difference that is often overlooked. This is because no other god paid for our salvation in full like our God did through Jesus,and so the people in other religions think their religious works justifies them,but it doesn't.Jesus made salvation way,way too easy for religious people and even certain Christians bring their works into salvation like it justifies them more than others when it doesn't. Nothing we can do can add to or justify us more than Jesus already did.It is the change on the inside of a person that leads them to serve God when they are born again/saved by Jesus. The difference is vast.

This is why the gospel is good news and not bad news like in all other religions where you must live a certain way according to that religion,your whole life the best you can your whole life.

More Than Works. For you,music is a great way to get the message to somebody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li_h3D7BJ0c

All religions are different in many ways, and the same in others. One could just as easily point out how religion X is different than all others; even yours.

Ken

You must not know about religions then to say that.Because ALL of the other religions teach works as a matter of fact this is how you peg false religions, including Jehovah Witnesses and Mormonism,they are no different than Islam,Hinduism,etc they all teach works for salvation,only Christianity says already DONE for you by Jesus,just believe and receive it.Religion = Do! Jesus says DONE!

So what you do doesn’t matter, all you gotta do is believe huh?

A self proclaimed feminist once told me the definition of feminism is one who believes women should be treated equal to men. I then asked her if a feminist can be against abortion. She began to stutter, change the subject, and tried to make the “leap” that to be against a woman’s right to choose is the same as to be against equality of the sexes.
I’ve heard many feminists make her initial claim, but when you dig a little deeper, you find out the feminist agenda is much more than just equality of the sexes.

I’ve heard many Christians claim works doesn’t matter, all you gotta do is believe, but when you dig a little deeper, it seems there is a lot more required than just believing; often the “leap” is made that believing equals attempting to live according to God’s word etc. etc. because they don’t want to claim evil men like Hitler, or Gacy, could make it in as long as they believed while they were committing their acts of atrocities. So I hope you understand my skepticism.

Ken

I dont much believe the first part in bold, and for the second, you know what
"the" feminist agenda is?

I consider myself a feminist. I strongly oppose abortion; I dont think the sexes are "equal".

What is "the" agenda of "feminists" svp?

[Jac3510]

So lemme see if I've got this straight; with other religions you change yourself, with christianity, you change on the inside. Sounds the same to me.

Ken

You can't see a difference? It is a big difference that is often overlooked. This is because no other god paid for our salvation in full like our God did through Jesus,and so the people in other religions think their religious works justifies them,but it doesn't.Jesus made salvation way,way too easy for religious people and even certain Christians bring their works into salvation like it justifies them more than others when it doesn't. Nothing we can do can add to or justify us more than Jesus already did.It is the change on the inside of a person that leads them to serve God when they are born again/saved by Jesus. The difference is vast.

This is why the gospel is good news and not bad news like in all other religions where you must live a certain way according to that religion,your whole life the best you can your whole life.

More Than Works. For you,music is a great way to get the message to somebody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li_h3D7BJ0c

All religions are different in many ways, and the same in others. One could just as easily point out how religion X is different than all others; even yours.

Ken

You must not know about religions then to say that.Because ALL of the other religions teach works as a matter of fact this is how you peg false religions, including Jehovah Witnesses and Mormonism,they are no different than Islam,Hinduism,etc they all teach works for salvation,only Christianity says already DONE for you by Jesus,just believe and receive it.Religion = Do! Jesus says DONE!

So what you do doesn’t matter, all you gotta do is believe huh?

A self proclaimed feminist once told me the definition of feminism is one who believes women should be treated equal to men. I then asked her if a feminist can be against abortion. She began to stutter, change the subject, and tried to make the “leap” that to be against a woman’s right to choose is the same as to be against equality of the sexes.
I’ve heard many feminists make her initial claim, but when you dig a little deeper, you find out the feminist agenda is much more than just equality of the sexes.

I’ve heard many Christians claim works doesn’t matter, all you gotta do is believe, but when you dig a little deeper, it seems there is a lot more required than just believing; often the “leap” is made that believing equals attempting to live according to God’s word etc. etc. because they don’t want to claim evil men like Hitler, or Gacy, could make it in as long as they believed while they were committing their acts of atrocities. So I hope you understand my skepticism.

Ken

Unfortunately Ken, you are quite right. I won't comment on the feminist agenda issue, because that's not in my wheelhouse. But it certainly is true that many, if not most, Christians will say "all you have to do is believe" and then bait and switch you by backloading all kinds of ideas into "belief"--so "true" belief equals things like not sinning and being faithful and other such nonsense. We need to have the courage of our convictions. Either Jesus told the truth when He said that everyone who believes in Him has everlasting life, full stop, or we call Him a liar and start expanding the definition of "believe" to include all of our pet interests. I side with Jesus, and to answer your original question, yes. What you do does not matter. All you have to do is believe. If someone disagrees with that, their problem is with Jesus, not me.

[RickD]

audie wrote:
I consider myself a feminist. I strongly oppose abortion; I dont think the sexes are "equal".

Wow! A pro-life woman who knows her place(kitchen).

I'm impressed, Audie!

[PaulSacramento]

Though you may be an expert on Christianity, you appear quite ignorant of many of the other religious beliefs.

Ken

Actually, comparative religion was a standard course and I got a 92%, not perfect but better than average.

I got a hundred percent on the test I took to get my doctor of divinity degree.

I don't think I care for your tone.
Getting my masters in theological studies was no joke and neither is getting any degree in theology.

A mistake I made in universtiy was not taking a comparative religion course.

Mom recommended that I do so, but I never fitted it in.

I meant no disrespect to you, with what was a rather pointless quip on my part.

No worries.

[abelcainsbrother]

So lemme see if I've got this straight; with other religions you change yourself, with christianity, you change on the inside. Sounds the same to me.

Ken

You can't see a difference? It is a big difference that is often overlooked. This is because no other god paid for our salvation in full like our God did through Jesus,and so the people in other religions think their religious works justifies them,but it doesn't.Jesus made salvation way,way too easy for religious people and even certain Christians bring their works into salvation like it justifies them more than others when it doesn't. Nothing we can do can add to or justify us more than Jesus already did.It is the change on the inside of a person that leads them to serve God when they are born again/saved by Jesus. The difference is vast.

This is why the gospel is good news and not bad news like in all other religions where you must live a certain way according to that religion,your whole life the best you can your whole life.

More Than Works. For you,music is a great way to get the message to somebody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li_h3D7BJ0c

All religions are different in many ways, and the same in others. One could just as easily point out how religion X is different than all others; even yours.

Ken

You must not know about religions then to say that.Because ALL of the other religions teach works as a matter of fact this is how you peg false religions, including Jehovah Witnesses and Mormonism,they are no different than Islam,Hinduism,etc they all teach works for salvation,only Christianity says already DONE for you by Jesus,just believe and receive it.Religion = Do! Jesus says DONE!

So what you do doesn’t matter, all you gotta do is believe huh?

A self proclaimed feminist once told me the definition of feminism is one who believes women should be treated equal to men. I then asked her if a feminist can be against abortion. She began to stutter, change the subject, and tried to make the “leap” that to be against a woman’s right to choose is the same as to be against equality of the sexes.
I’ve heard many feminists make her initial claim, but when you dig a little deeper, you find out the feminist agenda is much more than just equality of the sexes.

I’ve heard many Christians claim works doesn’t matter, all you gotta do is believe, but when you dig a little deeper, it seems there is a lot more required than just believing; often the “leap” is made that believing equals attempting to live according to God’s word etc. etc. because they don’t want to claim evil men like Hitler, or Gacy, could make it in as long as they believed while they were committing their acts of atrocities. So I hope you understand my skepticism.

Ken

I really don't understand your skepticism. I already explained that when a person is saved/born again it changes them on the inside to serve God,so I or no Christian is implying get saved and do nothing. However there is a big difference in somebody in these false religions that teach works and must live a certain way,must do works to be justified like I've explained already and a person who is already saved justified not based on their works like in Christianity. I also explained already that people try to bring their works into Christianity like it justifies them more than somebody else,they do and so this is probably why you've heard it.Like say you ever got saved,you would be changed on the inside to serve God,you would suddenly know the truth and you'd want to please God.Where if you joined some false religion you'd be taught the rules you must live by and things you must do. It is a big difference that people overlook when comparing or implying Christianity is just like all other religions,etc. They really don't know what they're talking about.

[Audie]

One "type of atheist" is the one that does not believe that anyone can
receive some holy spirit that makes them suddenky know "the truth"
and thereby become infallible.

Same for our philosopher sorts who have figured out how it is impossible for them
to be wrong.