Miraculous healings today

[crochet1949]

First of all -- God is The Healer -- Not people. God Tells us to bring our petitions to Him -- He will answer Yes, no, wait. As has been stated previously -- Ultimate healing takes place in heaven.

"Once saved Always saved" is a most important Biblical teaching. It goes to the power of the Godhead. Of the sufficiency of the blood of Christ on the cross. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a person the instant of salvation. God has stated that He will Never leave us or forsake us. Is God's Word trustworthy or Isn't it. If the response is "of course it is" -- then there should be No Problem with OSAS / eternal security / everlasting/ eternal life.
The over-all theme of Scripture is the cross of Christ. This life here on earth is very Short compared to eternal / everlasting life in either heaven or hell.

And, yes, there Are 'obscure' verses in God's Word -- 'working out your salvation in fear and trembling' I'm thinking is one of them. And some verses that suggest that baptism is required / part of salvation. The thief on the cross had no time For baptism or to show any good works before he died. He simply believed in his heart and verbalized to Jesus Christ in person.

One of the differences between you and others in the area of spelling, reading, Is Liking to read. I've always Liked to read - so a person is more likely to have correct spelling learned by Reading a lot of correct spelling. Which is Probably why parents are encouraged to read to their children from early on. They can see and hear correct pronunciation and spelling.

[jpbg33]

We can be healed on earth as well it is one of the gifts God promises us that believe.


The bible dose not teach us that we get the Holy Ghost as the time of salvation.

Paul said have you received the Holy Ghost sense you believed. Which mean he believed you get it after you are saved.


If you wont to talk osas here ok.

You will not find in the bible were anyone that doesn't believe will go to heaven.

you do not have to be baptized to go to heaven. The thief went to heaven because he believed. We do good works because we believe we do not do them to believe. Good works are evidence that we believe.

David said if he went to hell God would be there

Psa_139:8  If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there


1Jn 2:24  Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 
1Jn 2:25  And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 

according to this we can lose it. According to that verse we have to let it remain in us.

there are lots of verses that like this in the bible not just one or two.

y'all are cherry picking

I agree with you on the spelling and reading.

[RickD]

Let's see...

Jpbg's warped, works gospel says:

The bible dose not teach us that we get the Holy Ghost as the time of salvation.

And, The Bible says:

13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 1:13-14

So who do we believe?
Do we believe in the promise of God, that says when we believed the gospel, we are sealed, by God?

Or,

Do we believe jpbg who says we need to stop sinning, in order to keep some kind of temporary life?



I think people can decide on their own.

[crochet1949]

We can be healed on earth as well it is one of the gifts God promises us that believe.


The bible dose not teach us that we get the Holy Ghost as the time of salvation.

Paul said have you received the Holy Ghost sense you believed. Which mean he believed you get it after you are saved.


If you wont to talk osas here ok.

You will not find in the bible were anyone that doesn't believe will go to heaven.

you do not have to be baptized to go to heaven. The thief went to heaven because he believed. We do good works because we believe we do not do them to believe. Good works are evidence that we believe.

David said if he went to hell God would be there

Psa_139:8  If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there


1Jn 2:24  Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 
1Jn 2:25  And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 

according to this we can lose it. According to that verse we have to let it remain in us.

there are lots of verses that like this in the bible not just one or two.

y'all are cherry picking

I agree with you on the spelling and reading.

You are Still determined to make physical healing that comes from God -- as a gift to believers. That God Only heals believers here on earth. I really don't think that's the case.

You May have a point -- God IS omnipresent -- His Spirit is Everywhere. He Is in control of Everything -- Including hell. But Scripture Also tells us just how horrible hell Will Be. No one really wants to end up there. The rebellious non-believer tends to think that life Without God will Finally be Fun and Games with all their non-believing friends. But God is Trying to get Everyone's attention. Do NOT be scoffing at His Word.

The next post shares more about the Holy Spirit.

[crochet1949]

Let's see...

Jpbg's warped, works gospel says:

The bible dose not teach us that we get the Holy Ghost as the time of salvation.

And, The Bible says:

13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 1:13-14

So who do we believe?
Do we believe in the promise of God, that says when we believed the gospel, we are sealed, by God?

Or,

Do we believe jpbg who says we need to stop sinning, in order to keep some kind of temporary life?



I think people can decide on their own.

Yes Ephesians 1

[jpbg33]

I do not think God only heals believers. I thank that God can heal unbelieves on behalf of a believer. Like if a Christian women went to Church and asked prayer for her unbelieving husband, then because of her faith God would heal her husband, but if an unbelieving person came to church to be healed God would not heal him unless there is a change in his heart and he starts believing. Then because of his faith he can be healed.

That verse dose not say you get the Holy Ghost when you get saved.

I think Paul would have known if you are saved that you are filled with the Holy Ghost at the same time if that was the case.

Paul asked people if they were filed sense they believed. Salvation is not the same as being filled with the Holy Ghost.

Act 19:2  He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 
Act 19:3  And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 
Act 19:4  Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 
Act 19:5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 
Act 19:6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

RickD You must have miss read my last post.

I did not say we did any thing to stay saved I said the verse says we can lose our salvation.

if anyone said any thing about doing any thing to be saved it was not me but the bible.


1Jn 2:24  Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 
1Jn 2:25  And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 

I did say "According to that verse we have to let it remain in us.". Because that is what the verse said, is it not?

[crochet1949]

BYW -- It's the Holy Spirit Not the Holy Ghost.

Jesus Christ said that He had to ascend back to heaven in order for the Holy Spirit to come. Because the Holy Spirit indwells each believer -- is Always with the believer -- but when Jesus was on earth -- He could only be at one place at a time.

The 1 John 2 passage is Also talking about those who would try to lead believers away -- lots of strange teachings will come and go. Make sure we are grounded in God's Word so that other teachings won't guide you away from God's Truth.

Once God's Word is With us it won't leave us. We might go to other places -- other beliefs -- but with God's indwelling us -- it will only be a side-track.

Those of us with children --- they are Our children -- they might stray away -- they will Probably leave home. But they will Always be Our Children. We don't disown them. They may do things that break our heart, but they are Still our children.

God's Word gives us enough straight forward truths to make a decision to accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior.

The Acts 2 passage -- the Holy Spirit came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues -- As The Spirit Enabled Them.
Which would indicate that some did Not speak in other tongues. But it was the Holy Spirit enabling them.

This was a Transition time from Jesus Christ To the Holy Spirit's arrival.

Just like the baptism of John preceded the baptism of Christ. There are things in Scripture I Accept while not Understanding them. Why did Jesus Christ Need a 'forerunner'. That's a rhetorical question.

[B. W.]

jpbg33, you are confusing what Jesus meant by being empowered by the Holy Spirit in Acts chapter One and being Born Again by the Holy Spirit in John chapter three.

When you become Born Again the Holy Spirit indwells a person and begins sanctification in us. John 6:37 is a promise from Jesus himself. All His promises are yeah and amen. He keeps his word. When you become Born Again one is sealed by the Holy Spirit within.

The need for empowerment from the Holy Spirit to do God's task that Give Him all the Glory is another matter altogether. You are confusing two distinct matters.

What church do you attend?
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[crochet1949]

jpbg33, you are confusing what Jesus meant by being empowered by the Holy Spirit in Acts chapter One and being Born Again by the Holy Spirit in John chapter three.

When you become Born Again the Holy Spirit indwells a person and begins sanctification in us. John 6:37 is a promise from Jesus himself. All His promises are yeah and amen. He keeps his word. When you become Born Again one is sealed by the Holy Spirit within.

The need for empowerment from the Holy Spirit to do God's task that Give Him all the Glory is another matter altogether. You are confusing two distinct matters.

What church do you attend?
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Very well stated. And a good question -- what church does 'jpbg33' go to? You won't know -- but, hopefully, he will share that.

[RickD]

I don't think any Christian church would teach that a believer doesn't have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

That's just a Christianity 101 belief.

It's no wonder jpbg doesn't believe God keeps a believer secure in Him, when he doesn't believe He indwells us.

[jpbg33]

crochet1949 you are miss reading that verse because it dose not line up to your religion in what it actually says.

That verse said that all of them were fill with the Holy Ghost and spoke with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

It wasn't saying like what you are suggesting that they were all filled but only some spoke with other tongues, but it was saying that they all were filled and spoke with other tongues. It was saying that all of them spoke with other tongues. the pat where it said that "as the Spirit gave them utterance" was not saying that some did not speak with other tongues, but that they did not all speak the same language, but they spoke the language the Spirit gave them personally to speak.

You are reading your religion into it.

Act 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 
Act 2:5  And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 
Act 2:6  Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 
Act 2:7  And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 
Act 2:8  And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 
Act 2:9  Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 
Act 2:10  Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 
Act 2:11  Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 

crochet1949 1 John 2:24 was not saying that to keep what you have learned so you will not be Christians teaching false teachings. That isn't what he said at all, nor any thing like that. What he said " Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning" then he said "IF" It remain in you(which implies that you very well can lose it) "ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father". So if it dose not remain in you then you are know longer in the Son(Jesus).

you are reading your religion into this verse as well.

1Jn 2:24  Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 
1Jn 2:25  And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 

I do not believe that when you are saved that that Holy Spirit is not in you. When we are saved Jesus is indwelling the Believer and Jesus is Holy, but that is different then being filled with the Holy Ghost. which it what Acts 2 and Acts 19 was about. In Acts 19 Paul asked if they were filled with the Holy Ghost and they said no then he asked which baptism they were baptized. They said they were of John. Then Paul said that was only of repentance and to believing in Jesus. Then the bible said that when they herd that "they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" so at that point they were saved not yet filled with the Holy Ghost. Then the bible says that Paul laid hands on them and they were Filled with the Holy Ghost and they spoke with other tongues. They were according to the bible saved first then later Filled with the Holy Ghost.

B. W That verse that says we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Dose not say we are fill with the Holy Ghost when we are saved.
You are reading that into it. How do I know that, the people in acts 19 were saved first and then later filled. So being saved and being fill is two different events.

The analogy that y'all are using is not right how y'all are using it. Because we do not pick out parents when we are born, but we do pick who we serve. It is a free gift. If we pick Jesus then later pick Satan, then it is our chose given to us by God. After we are saved it is still a free gift we are not forced to be Christians.

I go to an Assembly of God church.

[RickD]

jpbg wrote:
I go to an Assembly of God church.

Now it all makes sense.

[crochet1949]

It is the Holy Spirit that comes to indwell the believer at the moment of their salvation - - NOT Jesus Christ.

So -- IF the Holy Spirit does Not indwell the person at the instant of their salvation -- when Does He indwell the person. How does a person know it has happened. What we Do know is what the born-again believer Knows from personal experience -- there is a sense of inner peace that comes instantly --and That would be the Holy Spirit coming to indwell us.

You're right -- God does NOT force Himself on Anyone. It IS our choice to accept or reject Him. But we Won't be going back and forth.

There are groups who believe that speaking in tongues is the proof / a necessity For salvation. And some people are Very emotional when they accept Christ -- they get very worked up and can start 'babbling'. There is also a 'prayer language' that's spoken of in the New Testament. But that is Not to be seen as being Necessary For salvation.

We'd been part of a Bible study group in our town -- many years ago. There was a woman there who belonged to a church that had a class that taught people How to speak in tongues. That certainly is Not Biblical. People do Not ask for a spiritual gift -- the Holy Spirit Gives them at His discretion.

And -- The Assemblies Church does teach some of that.

[B. W.]

jpbg wrote:I go to an Assembly of God church.

Hmmm, there are various AG churches and basically it is up to the pastor of the local AG on how such doctrine as losing one's salvation is taught as well as Baptism of the Holy Spirit for empowerment. Lot of variations in the AG on these.

So I take it that the AG you go too is more inclined to the old traditional AG of the 1970's-1980 era.

What city do you attend AG in, that is, if you do not mind answering?

I attend an AG church that is more balanced about these matters. Yes, we have the traditionalist lose you salvation folks in it as well as the Eternal Security folks as well and we all get along with each other. We can discuss freely if we like too with no one brow beating another into submission. Most important thing in the AG I attend is who Jesus is and the message of the cross by Salvation by Grace through faith.

Pardon the term, but the speaking in tongues issue as evidence of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit has evolved more in line with what the bible mentions in 1 Corinthians chapter twelve in many AG's nowadays: meaning any of the gifts in that chapter are manifest when one is empowered by the Holy Spirit, which is the correct rendering of the chapter. Notice the top of the gift on the list is wisdom. We need wisdom.

Next set of questions

A question I ask folks regarding losing their salvation in the AG. If you think you lost your salvation - in that state - do you still speak in unknown tongues? or can one still speak in tongues after losing salvation - why or why not?

Do they need to be re-baptism in the Holy Spirit again for this empowerment?

Yes one can neglect that gift but did they ever really lose it?

Next question

Next, is being the Born Again a gift form God? Yes or no?

If a gift, then for God to take back that gift means that God is incapable of keeping his gifts, callings, and all his promises too.

What about these points

There are false brethren in the church. That, the bible speaks of and there are those who think because they do things for God means they know Jesus but in reality are not known by him. It is one thing to do things for Jesus and another matter altogether to walk together with him getting his work done. See the difference?

The old theology concerning losing salvation is better stated as based on voluntarily forfeiting salvation. However, the bible refutes this. You cannot forfeit being born again. Those used to illustrate this concept, I say were never saved. Or undergoing the possibility due to catastrophic life events or bad errors within church world simply have a crises of faith and the Lord will go after them, and return them back to his fold in due time. We simply do know know as the Lord does on these matters but we are to trust in his sovereignty.

Eternal Security does no disrupted to God's sovereignty in his workings and dealings with people and idded can save to the uttermost.... Heb 7:25 NKJV

Lose Salvation, well, means one is stronger than God who cannot save to the uttermost... Heb 7:25

That is something to consider...
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[jpbg33]

I had rether not say where im from

Y'all do not accept that silvation is a free gift and the whole consept of it being a free gift means you can give it back. It is not God taking it back but you giving it back.

My church believes it is a sin to try and teach someone how to speak in tongues.

If it was not from God it was not the Holy Ghost.

Tongues is the initial evidence of being filled the gifts come next. You will not find anyone being fill with the Holy Ghost in the bible that did not speak with tongues. That was what Jesus was talking about when he said that tonges would follow them that believe.

These false religion that are out there are there because people do not wont to believe in Jesus but they still wont to go to heaven but it doesn't work that way.

That verse says that God is not leaving us but it is us that is leaving God.

It says that we are to let it remain in us and if we do not let it remain in us then we are no longer in the Son.

That verese was a warning not to turn away from God. Because if you do you loose your salvation.

To say different means you do not know how to read English.