Eternal Security...(Revised May 2015)

[jpbg33]

crochet1949 is right here this is the same thing Jesus said Him self. So Jac3510 if you think you are on your way to hell then now is the time to take care of that. So I suggest that you ask Jesus to save you now so you will not find your self in hell later. I do not really care if you believe osas I do not believe in that but what is important to me is are we saved right now. If you are not you really need to ask Jesus to come into your heart and save you now before it is to lat.


Mat 12:33  Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. 
Mat 12:34  O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 
Mat 12:35  A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 
Mat 12:36  But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 
Mat 12:37  For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. 

[Jac3510]

So crochet . . . turns out you have accidentally aligned yourself with jp. Do I really need to say more?

[crochet1949]

This is a free country -- you're free to say whatever you wish. You're also free to Believe anything you wish to. Your eternal life -- where ever That may end up being -- is the only thing at stake.

[RickD]

Jac,

If you think you're going to hell, you need to "accept Jesus into your heart". You need to start "showing good fruit" to prove you're saved. Good trees only show good fruit, so if you're not showing good fruit, you must be a bad tree.

How'd I do? I think I understood what you were saying, no?



Or if you prefer, I think Jpbg completely understands what you're saying, as he so eloquently summed up here:

crochet1949 is right here this is the same thing Jesus said Him self. So Jac3510 if you think you are on your way to hell then now is the time to take care of that. So I suggest that you ask Jesus to save you now so you will not find your self in hell later. I do not really care if you believe osas I do not believe in that but what is important to me is are we saved right now. If you are not you really need to ask Jesus to come into your heart and save you now before it is to lat.

[crochet1949]

IF / Since a person would like to be saved Forever -- then God is perfectly capable of securing your soul Right Now And through the sealing aspect of the Holy Spirit's role -- Keep you safely 'saved' until the person is with Jesus Christ forever.

[Nicki]

How does that Coldplay song go - 'She dreamed of para, para, parricide...'

Seriously though, it was mentioned at some point that turning away from God is like giving the gift of eternal life back to him, but that he wouldn't take the gift back - however, it could be more like just throwing the gift away. I had always thought we were free to change our minds about being Christians and being saved. What really happens when someone loses belief in Christ though? They're not really deciding they want to go to hell rather than be saved; they've just become convinced at least that the gospel is untrue, and perhaps that there's no hell, no heaven, no God. They've been deceived, and if they end up in heaven I imagine they'd be saying 'I was an idiot to turn away from God but I'm glad I'm still saved.' In other words they wouldn't be likely to feel their free will had been trampled on.

On the other hand, if God is that merciful to lapsed believers my tendency is to think, why not to those who never believed - who have also been deceived in many cases.

By the way, I never felt unsure about my salvation when I assumed we could 'give it up' - I just knew that I was saved as long as I wanted to be, and I did want to be - I'd probably have thought I'd have to have a good reason to throw it away.

[crochet1949]

How does that Coldplay song go - 'She dreamed of para, para, parricide...'

Seriously though, it was mentioned at some point that turning away from God is like giving the gift of eternal life back to him, but that he wouldn't take the gift back - however, it could be more like just throwing the gift away. I had always thought we were free to change our minds about being Christians and being saved. What really happens when someone loses belief in Christ though? They're not really deciding they want to go to hell rather than be saved; they've just become convinced at least that the gospel is untrue, and perhaps that there's no hell, no heaven, no God. They've been deceived, and if they end up in heaven I imagine they'd be saying 'I was an idiot to turn away from God but I'm glad I'm still saved.' In other words they wouldn't be likely to feel their free will had been trampled on.

On the other hand, if God is that merciful to lapsed believers my tendency is to think, why not to those who never believed - who have also been deceived in many cases.

By the way, I never felt unsure about my salvation when I assumed we could 'give it up' - I just knew that I was saved as long as I wanted to be, and I did want to be - I'd probably have thought I'd have to have a good reason to throw it away.

Sometimes we can get very discouraged by life's happenings. Maybe we Do drift away for a while -- but -- God doesn't Loose us. We may look back and really regret our actions during some point -- but God has never left us. And we might even ignore the prompting of the Holy Spirit to 'get back to Himself' -- but we're just making ourselves miserable 'inside'.
And - maybe we Do get drunk and go out driving and end up dying in an accident. We're Still 'saved' -- we'll wake up in heaven the instant we die physically. And we Will be facing God -- and acknowledging our sinful actions. And God says He will wipe away our tears.

Personally, I can't image Wanting to 'throw away my salvation'. Why would I Want to end up in hell?

There's a passage that says that Jesus Christ will not return until Every person has had an opportunity to Hear God's gift of salvation and has had the opportunity to accept or reject. And the 'belief in the heart' might happen seconds Before death. Something happens to get a person's attention and they accept / believe in their heart.
God is the Only 'person' who knows exactly who will accept OR reject Him. We don't have that knowledge -- so We are to share with those who cross our paths -- might be while we are on the 'hike/bike' trail or on a plane trip or Where ever. We Might have an opportunity to share with someone from a different country. Or maybe we're a college /university student who spends a summer abroad -- opportunities to share in That country. So -- we never know How God will use a single contact we have. And it will be 'pay it forward'.

[bbyrd009]

"Preference for ice cream is a moral issue,"

and rather than Pontificating, you might ask the guy why he said that, because he is in fact right, wadr.

[crochet1949]

"Preference for ice cream is a moral issue,"

and rather than Pontificating, you might ask the guy why he said that, because he is in fact right, wadr.

Hi 'newbe' -- your comment lost me completely. Please explain

[Nicki]

How does that Coldplay song go - 'She dreamed of para, para, parricide...'

Seriously though, it was mentioned at some point that turning away from God is like giving the gift of eternal life back to him, but that he wouldn't take the gift back - however, it could be more like just throwing the gift away. I had always thought we were free to change our minds about being Christians and being saved. What really happens when someone loses belief in Christ though? They're not really deciding they want to go to hell rather than be saved; they've just become convinced at least that the gospel is untrue, and perhaps that there's no hell, no heaven, no God. They've been deceived, and if they end up in heaven I imagine they'd be saying 'I was an idiot to turn away from God but I'm glad I'm still saved.' In other words they wouldn't be likely to feel their free will had been trampled on.

On the other hand, if God is that merciful to lapsed believers my tendency is to think, why not to those who never believed - who have also been deceived in many cases.

By the way, I never felt unsure about my salvation when I assumed we could 'give it up' - I just knew that I was saved as long as I wanted to be, and I did want to be - I'd probably have thought I'd have to have a good reason to throw it away.

Sometimes we can get very discouraged by life's happenings. Maybe we Do drift away for a while -- but -- God doesn't Loose us. We may look back and really regret our actions during some point -- but God has never left us. And we might even ignore the prompting of the Holy Spirit to 'get back to Himself' -- but we're just making ourselves miserable 'inside'.
And - maybe we Do get drunk and go out driving and end up dying in an accident. We're Still 'saved' -- we'll wake up in heaven the instant we die physically. And we Will be facing God -- and acknowledging our sinful actions. And God says He will wipe away our tears.

Personally, I can't image Wanting to 'throw away my salvation'. Why would I Want to end up in hell?

There's a passage that says that Jesus Christ will not return until Every person has had an opportunity to Hear God's gift of salvation and has had the opportunity to accept or reject. And the 'belief in the heart' might happen seconds Before death. Something happens to get a person's attention and they accept / believe in their heart.
God is the Only 'person' who knows exactly who will accept OR reject Him. We don't have that knowledge -- so We are to share with those who cross our paths -- might be while we are on the 'hike/bike' trail or on a plane trip or Where ever. We Might have an opportunity to share with someone from a different country. Or maybe we're a college /university student who spends a summer abroad -- opportunities to share in That country. So -- we never know How God will use a single contact we have. And it will be 'pay it forward'.

You wouldn't think you were going to end up in hell if you turned away from God - you'd probably have stopped believing there was any such thing as hell. That's what I meant about people being deceived - they're not making a conscious decision to reject God's salvation but have decided instead that there's no such thing. They'd probably be happy to be proved wrong, as some atheists on here have said of themselves. That's why I've decided eternal security would not really involve the injustice of dragging someone into heaven against their will.

That's true about that scripture, but on the other hand there have been lots of people who've already lived and died without hearing the gospel. I know there's been plenty of discussion about this elsewhere here though.

[crochet1949]

But -- aren't you Assuming that there have been lots of people who have lived and died without hearing the Gospel? God has provided the Way, the Truth and the Life through Jesus Christ to All people. John 3:16 For God so loved the World...and That includes Way Back When in history. Just sayin....

[bbyrd009]

"Preference for ice cream is a moral issue,"

and rather than Pontificating, you might ask the guy why he said that, because he is in fact right, wadr.

Hi 'newbe' -- your comment lost me completely. Please explain

my meaning was that there is a sense in which a preference for ice cream is a moral issue, that you will not come to understand by shutting...him down. sorry, i am unfamiliar with the tools here still. ntmy

[bbyrd009]

we posit an all-or-nothing kind of future--and disregard the present, mostly--and envision "punishment" in a road, which with all due respect is just another way to announce that we are mired in sin, when "reward" is just as easily assumed in "you will reap what you sow," is it not?

"i hope you get what you deserve" is a promise from God, and one's heart is revealed in the interpretation, it seems?

[bbyrd009]

"Preference for ice cream is a moral issue,"

and rather than Pontificating, you might ask the guy why he said that, because he is in fact right, wadr.

Hi 'newbe' -- your comment lost me completely. Please explain

but having (sort of) read through the discussion there, as best i was able sans quote-trackbacks, i would now like to withdraw, if i may, ty.

[bbyrd009]

...I just knew that I was saved as long as I wanted to be, and I did want to be...

um, with all due respect how is this position any different from an Apostate's? ty