Today I just learned about the disaster around the Indian Ocean and I have a few reflections. Although I undoubtedly believe in God, as a scientist I want to offer an objection.
"If God designed a perfect world, why did He leave faults underneath the ground, allowing Earthquakes to occur. Even if these faults have developed over the centuries, God still gave it the potential to happen."
I would be interested in your insights.
Fr.A
The Tsunami. Why Do Natural Disasters Happen?
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Kurieuo
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A writing was recently posted which might interest you to read if you haven't, as it is relevant to this. See http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... php?p=1751
Kurieuo.
Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
I'm just thinking....
There have been various occasions that God sent calamity to destroy sinful human...the greatest being the Great Flood.
All these had perhaps altered the geological, metrological etc nature of the earth.
There exist a thought that may not be consistent with this website, that the huge volume of water release from the sky had altered the axis of the earth...leading to the presence of the 4 seasons (note that winter was mentioned only after the Flood).
Some think that the division of land as mentioned in Genesis refer to the separation of the tetronic plate, which had also occurred after the Flood. This may again be related to the release of water from beneath the earth.
The above of course lead to another thought...does the hand of God in the course of metting out punishment impact the future configuration of things to come...I think the answers is yes, basing on the life of biblical characters.
There have been various occasions that God sent calamity to destroy sinful human...the greatest being the Great Flood.
All these had perhaps altered the geological, metrological etc nature of the earth.
There exist a thought that may not be consistent with this website, that the huge volume of water release from the sky had altered the axis of the earth...leading to the presence of the 4 seasons (note that winter was mentioned only after the Flood).
Some think that the division of land as mentioned in Genesis refer to the separation of the tetronic plate, which had also occurred after the Flood. This may again be related to the release of water from beneath the earth.
The above of course lead to another thought...does the hand of God in the course of metting out punishment impact the future configuration of things to come...I think the answers is yes, basing on the life of biblical characters.
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SourceofLiFe
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It's a sign.
Happens right after the birthday of Jesus Christ, December 26th around parts of Asia that worship other idols.
These idols are direct image set by Satan to confuse and manipulate people. To prevent people from accessing the real God; God Almighty and preventing people from being close to Jesus Christ.
There could be multiple reason to this effect, one thing is for certain, such disastrous event does not occur often and now we are closer to the time most consider "the end."
Such disaster is a direct result of Satan.
If it is triggered by Satan, then God Almighty let those who worship Satan be put to death by the hands of their own "god"
If it is triggered by God Almighty, then it be justified to relieve people from the hands of Satan. As in the hands of Satan they will only suffer and drown deeper in pain and falsified "truth."
Whatever reason you may think, we cannot deny the facts that it occurred in December 26th by the Indian Ocean.
Use your logic if you must, as your logic will have no way to truly deny this occasion and the presented facts of the time plus location in which the event struck through.
Those who are with God Almighty through Jesus Christ will be in peace.
Happens right after the birthday of Jesus Christ, December 26th around parts of Asia that worship other idols.
These idols are direct image set by Satan to confuse and manipulate people. To prevent people from accessing the real God; God Almighty and preventing people from being close to Jesus Christ.
There could be multiple reason to this effect, one thing is for certain, such disastrous event does not occur often and now we are closer to the time most consider "the end."
Such disaster is a direct result of Satan.
If it is triggered by Satan, then God Almighty let those who worship Satan be put to death by the hands of their own "god"
If it is triggered by God Almighty, then it be justified to relieve people from the hands of Satan. As in the hands of Satan they will only suffer and drown deeper in pain and falsified "truth."
Whatever reason you may think, we cannot deny the facts that it occurred in December 26th by the Indian Ocean.
Use your logic if you must, as your logic will have no way to truly deny this occasion and the presented facts of the time plus location in which the event struck through.
Those who are with God Almighty through Jesus Christ will be in peace.
Last edited by SourceofLiFe on Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SourceofLiFe
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Re: Natural Disasters
The faults you consider as "faults" within that quote does not truly mean it is a fault.FrAndrew wrote:"If God designed a perfect world, why did He leave faults underneath the ground, allowing Earthquakes to occur. Even if these faults have developed over the centuries, God still gave it the potential to happen."
Fr.A
Perhaps it is not a fault, it is a way to clear up the true faults that the environment have consumed.
Is it a fault when God destroys act of Satan?
The environment can be corrupted with wickedness, deception and evil. These "faults" that you consider as faults could be the key to ending such darkness and evil.
Remember, we are not the one to judge whether it is right or wrong, we can only follow God's order and under God's laws for judgement.
God Almighty is the only God, because God Almighty is the truth.
Only truth shall remain for eternity.
SourceofLiFe wrote:It's a sign.
Happens right after the birthday of Jesus Christ, December 26th around parts of Asia that worship other idols.
Whatever reason you may think, we cannot deny the facts that it occurred in December 26th by the Indian Ocean.
.
Jesus was more likely to be born in the time frame of Sept to Oct than Dec.
Anyway, I'm sure God don't need to chose "auspicious day" to carry out his judgement ...if the disaster was a result of it.
Your thought did came to mind, but I was wondering...how about the middle East, Northen Asia etc.
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Mastermind
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Jac3510
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I've actually been avoiding any and all TV evangelists the past few days exactly because of this. I just know there are people out there saying, "THIS IS JUDGEMENT FROM GOD! REPENT!!!" And I'm waiting on them to use this as evidence that we are in the last days, because there will be great earthquakes . . .
Why did the tsunami happen? I'm not a scientist, but I know it has something to do with pressure at the earth's plates. God set up a world that runs according to certain natural rules. In the absence of a real prophet (that discussion can go badly quickly
) to announce, "Thus says the LORD: I sent the tsunami to get your attention!" I'll few it as nothing more than what it is--a natural disaster.
Here, then, is the test for Christians. Where are we so far as the helping of the poor, the orphaned, the widows, and the destitute right about now?
As for Fr's general question, I'll just refer also to the link that K posted.
Why did the tsunami happen? I'm not a scientist, but I know it has something to do with pressure at the earth's plates. God set up a world that runs according to certain natural rules. In the absence of a real prophet (that discussion can go badly quickly
) to announce, "Thus says the LORD: I sent the tsunami to get your attention!" I'll few it as nothing more than what it is--a natural disaster.Here, then, is the test for Christians. Where are we so far as the helping of the poor, the orphaned, the widows, and the destitute right about now?
As for Fr's general question, I'll just refer also to the link that K posted.
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
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Kurieuo
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I'm a little stunned at how many deaths there have been, but I really feel sorry for those who have to pick up the pieces. While we may not be able to zoom over there and help, and I don't want to guilt people into giving, but I'd encourage anyone who can to donate to an organisation helping them out.
World Vision is a well-known organisation collecting donations to help out over there (http://www.worldvision.org/ or http://www.worldvision.com.au/ for Aussies).
Kurieuo.
World Vision is a well-known organisation collecting donations to help out over there (http://www.worldvision.org/ or http://www.worldvision.com.au/ for Aussies).
Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
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SourceofLiFe
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http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/scienc ... index.html
This is quite interesting is it not?
How come only human beings died if it's a natural disaster?
From many other natural disaster animal died along, or else this wouldn't be interesting as people would know how to use animals to detect these "natural disaster."
I guess it is true when people say ignorance is bliss.
We tend to like ignoring issues, ignoring the crisis and the pain our fellow human friends are going through, because it doesn't concern us.
That is wrong, we must use our hands and our abilities to help those in needs.
Think about it, one day we would probably be in need as well. So if you must find a reason to justify the cause, at least for the sake of others, think in terms of yourself when you're in those harsh situation they're going through right now.
The smell of dead bodies through the air you breathe is not something so pleasant, and that's one of the instant feeling they're going through out of the hundreds of different feelings due to that disastrous event.
This is quite interesting is it not?
How come only human beings died if it's a natural disaster?
From many other natural disaster animal died along, or else this wouldn't be interesting as people would know how to use animals to detect these "natural disaster."
I guess it is true when people say ignorance is bliss.
We tend to like ignoring issues, ignoring the crisis and the pain our fellow human friends are going through, because it doesn't concern us.
That is wrong, we must use our hands and our abilities to help those in needs.
Think about it, one day we would probably be in need as well. So if you must find a reason to justify the cause, at least for the sake of others, think in terms of yourself when you're in those harsh situation they're going through right now.
The smell of dead bodies through the air you breathe is not something so pleasant, and that's one of the instant feeling they're going through out of the hundreds of different feelings due to that disastrous event.
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Mastermind
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SourceOFLife I agree with you. I do think it is a sign.
It just seems too coincidential that the day after the LORD's birthday a natural disaster happens among Pagans. This is also true for me on a very personal level;
my brother is having a baby with a Thai lady in Phuket, and she is (or was) eight months pregnant. Unfortunately, nobody can find her and my brother is going to look for them. My brother used to be very religious until he met her at which point he turned to Buddhism. Indeed this is a sign.
It just seems too coincidential that the day after the LORD's birthday a natural disaster happens among Pagans. This is also true for me on a very personal level;
my brother is having a baby with a Thai lady in Phuket, and she is (or was) eight months pregnant. Unfortunately, nobody can find her and my brother is going to look for them. My brother used to be very religious until he met her at which point he turned to Buddhism. Indeed this is a sign.
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Kurieuo
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Sorry, I can't accept that and am stunned to read such from a Christian's fingertips. If they're being punished for their sins, do you think we're any better? Christ came to help "anyone", and so given this, I find it hard to believe God would purposefully cause a disaster to occur based on one's faith.
I'll now just reflect back to Jac's message.
Kurieuo.
I'll now just reflect back to Jac's message.
Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
As far as I remember, disaster as occurred in the bible as a form of punishment only afflict the unbelievers.
Take the case of the Flood, the Eqyptian plagues, the Closing of the Red sea, the opening of the earth on those who built the Golden calf, & each time, there was ample warning before the disaster comes.
Tho this disaster did occurred to a ring of countries which is steep in other beliefs, Christians were killed too & there was really no warning of it coming.
I'm also a skeptic when with comes to those sign end time soothsayers.
Disaster have been occuring since eons ago.
I'd also expect more lost of life for future disaster as the world become denser, so looking at the no. of people killed is not a good enough sign for end times.
However, this disaster can be used as a reminder that life is transient & unpredictable. Repentance should not wait.
Take the case of the Flood, the Eqyptian plagues, the Closing of the Red sea, the opening of the earth on those who built the Golden calf, & each time, there was ample warning before the disaster comes.
Tho this disaster did occurred to a ring of countries which is steep in other beliefs, Christians were killed too & there was really no warning of it coming.
I'm also a skeptic when with comes to those sign end time soothsayers.
Disaster have been occuring since eons ago.
I'd also expect more lost of life for future disaster as the world become denser, so looking at the no. of people killed is not a good enough sign for end times.
However, this disaster can be used as a reminder that life is transient & unpredictable. Repentance should not wait.
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Felgar
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I would say that it's only a sign to the extent that we are told that natural disasters will be much more plentiful near the end times. So this is evidence that we're drawing nearer, but how much nearer is not clear.
Beyond that it is just a simple natural disaster with tragic human consequence. It should be noted though, that I believe much of the poverty of those nations is due to their unwillingess to turn to God. The Western Democracies (US, Britain, Canada, Aus, etc.) have been blessed through their seeking (in the past more than now) of Him. So in some way, had these nations been receiving God's blessing they more than likely would have had the resources to have developed much better warning systems in place that could have saved many lives.
But I disagree with the standard "It's a sign - repent!" message. That is not fair, and can also promote apathy from the Christian community. And these are times where as a community, we should be rallying to help those in need, so as to serve as proper representatives of our Faith.
Incidently the government of Canada will match any private donation made until Jan 11, so any Canadians out there should be encouraged to give as quickly as possible.
Beyond that it is just a simple natural disaster with tragic human consequence. It should be noted though, that I believe much of the poverty of those nations is due to their unwillingess to turn to God. The Western Democracies (US, Britain, Canada, Aus, etc.) have been blessed through their seeking (in the past more than now) of Him. So in some way, had these nations been receiving God's blessing they more than likely would have had the resources to have developed much better warning systems in place that could have saved many lives.
But I disagree with the standard "It's a sign - repent!" message. That is not fair, and can also promote apathy from the Christian community. And these are times where as a community, we should be rallying to help those in need, so as to serve as proper representatives of our Faith.
Incidently the government of Canada will match any private donation made until Jan 11, so any Canadians out there should be encouraged to give as quickly as possible.