2 Christian biologists on evolution

[Audie]

I know some are not going to want to hear this,but God's word is true and somewhere along the line because of influences in our world we forgot to believe God's word. There is something big time important in God's word that got overlooked.

2nd Peter 3:5-7 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days scoffers,walking after their own lusts. And saying.Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep/died all things continues as they were from the beginning of the creation. This is exactly what we hear today because of science and so we just blindly accept this,then try to make God's word fit into this line of thinking,which is wrong.

The truth is all things have not gone on continually as they were since the fathers died and from the beginning of the creation.

Peter tell us why all things have not gone on continually for billions of years or 6000 years from the beginning of the creation.

There is a gap that has been overlooked, Peter explains the gap that got overlooked when he stated.

For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the heavens were of old,and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the WORLD that then WAS,being overflowed with water PERISHED. And since we know biblically that this world has never perished including Noah's flood,we all came from Adam and Eve,there had to have been a world that did perish that has been overlooked by the scoffers and this is why all things have not gone on continually since the beginning of the creation and explains why we think our fathers from the beginning died.

We are stuck in fulfilled bible prophecy for now.Because this is exactly what we are led to believe today in the last days and that is " since the fathers died all things continue as they were since the beginning of the creation. The good news is that we actually have evidence that a former world did indeed perish,just think of all of the fossils and don't think of them as our fathers because of evolution.

Well --we Do know that this world Did perish and it was through Noah's flood. But the Gap Theory -- was supposed to have happened between Genesis 1:1 and vs 2.

"We are stuck in fulfilled Bible prophesy for now." And, yes, the former world Did perish -- due to the flood. But I don't see how we are Stuck in Any Bible prophesy. We Are looking forward to the rapture taking place. And there Are various things that need to happen Before that takes place.

And, yes, we Have gotten away From God's Word. Higher education tends to laugh at it at least -- and at the Most -- tell us it didn't happen at All.

You "know" that? Like, in this regard, you are infallible? Zero possibility that you could be in error? You grasp the essentials of earth history better than any scientist on earth, and your bible interpretation is superior to that of anyone who sees it differently?

If there is a god, and he has a word, anyone who says that he committed acts that did not occur is very distant from that word.

Since you are the one who introduced "higher education" lets look at the flip side. Why do you suppose it is "lower education" that characterizes the
group who continue to believe in what Einstein referred to as a "Childish superstition"?

Lack of learning may be chronic, but it is not incurable.

[crochet1949]

There Are various thoughts regarding the Gap Theory -- One is that 'why was the earth without form, and was void; and darkness was on the face of the deep". Since God Did create everything and further in the chapter, that which God created was 'good', something Must have happened between those two verses to mess everything up.

One thought is that there was a war in the angelic world and a once perfect world was torn apart by that when Satan was thrown out of heaven and was on the earth as the serpent.

Another thought is that That is when the dinosars and other 'pre-historic' animals were here and something destroyed That and a preform of man was around. Sort of fits with theistic evolution. But if men and women were already Here, then why create Adam and Eve. And the 1st people who were able to give birth had to come from Somewhere. So why Not have Adam and Eve be the 1st people.

But the flood came later -- Adam and Eve were the 1st people and lived for hundreds of years and had children as God had told them to -- they lived and died and Noah and his family became the 2nd 'starter' family.

[crochet1949]

I know some are not going to want to hear this,but God's word is true and somewhere along the line because of influences in our world we forgot to believe God's word. There is something big time important in God's word that got overlooked.

2nd Peter 3:5-7 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days scoffers,walking after their own lusts. And saying.Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep/died all things continues as they were from the beginning of the creation. This is exactly what we hear today because of science and so we just blindly accept this,then try to make God's word fit into this line of thinking,which is wrong.

The truth is all things have not gone on continually as they were since the fathers died and from the beginning of the creation.

Peter tell us why all things have not gone on continually for billions of years or 6000 years from the beginning of the creation.

There is a gap that has been overlooked, Peter explains the gap that got overlooked when he stated.

For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the heavens were of old,and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the WORLD that then WAS,being overflowed with water PERISHED. And since we know biblically that this world has never perished including Noah's flood,we all came from Adam and Eve,there had to have been a world that did perish that has been overlooked by the scoffers and this is why all things have not gone on continually since the beginning of the creation and explains why we think our fathers from the beginning died.

We are stuck in fulfilled bible prophecy for now.Because this is exactly what we are led to believe today in the last days and that is " since the fathers died all things continue as they were since the beginning of the creation. The good news is that we actually have evidence that a former world did indeed perish,just think of all of the fossils and don't think of them as our fathers because of evolution.

Well --we Do know that this world Did perish and it was through Noah's flood. But the Gap Theory -- was supposed to have happened between Genesis 1:1 and vs 2.

"We are stuck in fulfilled Bible prophesy for now." And, yes, the former world Did perish -- due to the flood. But I don't see how we are Stuck in Any Bible prophesy. We Are looking forward to the rapture taking place. And there Are various things that need to happen Before that takes place.

And, yes, we Have gotten away From God's Word. Higher education tends to laugh at it at least -- and at the Most -- tell us it didn't happen at All.

You "know" that? Like, in this regard, you are infallible? Zero possibility that you could be in error? You grasp the essentials of earth history better than any scientist on earth, and your bible interpretation is superior to that of anyone who sees it differently?

If there is a god, and he has a word, anyone who says that he committed acts that did not occur is very distant from that word.

Since you are the one who introduced "higher education" lets look at the flip side. Why do you suppose it is "lower education" that characterizes the
group who continue to believe in what Einstein referred to as a "Childish superstition"?

Lack of learning may be chronic, but it is not incurable.

Audie -- that which strikes me as 'interesting' is that you are discussing this from the perspective of one who does Not believe in God or in His Word ---- that 'If a person would be Willing to 'adjust their thinking' to that of the 'superior' higher educational level, there would Probably be 'hope' for them.
No one is claiming 'infallibility' except maybe You are suggesting it on your part.
Higher education is obviously that which is Beyond high school. Lower education is high school or an Associates Degree and on their way To B.A. / M.A. / Doctorate.
Which would suggest that the higher up on the ladder of education a person goes, the more likely he is to realize the significance Of evolutionary thought and toss aside the 'foolishness' of taking the Bible seriously.
You seem to forget that there are Many highly educated professional people who Are Bible believers / take God's Word Seriously.
A person Could 'Google' it.

[PaulSacramento]

Some of us believers have multiple degrees and above average IQ's and the insinuation that religion is for the less educated is, well, wrong ( and history tells us this considering some of the greatest scientists of the past were religious).
That said, there are more higher IQ atheists than there are higher IQ believers.

[crochet1949]

Some of us believers have multiple degrees and above average IQ's and the insinuation that religion is for the less educated is, well, wrong ( and history tells us this considering some of the greatest scientists of the past were religious).
That said, there are more higher IQ atheists than there are higher IQ believers.

Thanks for your 1st paragraph.

Is it even possible to interview All the atheists and All the believers and come to that particular conclusion?!

[Audie]

Audie -- that which strikes me as 'interesting' is that you are discussing this from the perspective of one who does Not believe in God or in His Word ----

Not quite. i am expressing a much narrower concept: Even if the Bible is in fact God's Word, there is plenty of room to misread it.

that 'If a person would be Willing to 'adjust their thinking' to that of the 'superior' higher educational level, there would Probably be 'hope' for them.

You are looking at what I said from your perspective, and introducing words / concepts of your own, not mine.

No one is claiming 'infallibility' except maybe You are suggesting it on your part.

Oh? You can "know' the correct reading of scripture, with no possible other reading? What but infallible is taht?

Higher education is obviously that which is Beyond high school. Lower education is high school or an Associates Degree and on their way To B.A. / M.A. / Doctorate.

If that is how you see it, that is how you see it. Anyone, tho, can do basic study. it isnt that hard.

Which would suggest that the higher up on the ladder of education a person goes, the more likely he is to realize the significance Of evolutionary thought and toss aside the 'foolishness' of taking the Bible seriously.

Again, introducing concepts of your own, not from me.

There are, and I have met my share, a great many very devout Christians who are wonderfully well educated, and who, btw, have no trouble integrating science into their appreciation of God. Quite the opposite.

You seem to forget that there are Many highly educated professional people who Are Bible believers / take God's Word Seriously.

Your choice, to perceive things that way, but you wont get it from anything I actually said.

A person Could 'Google' it

A person could google some basic geology too, if they had a notion to.

[Audie]

Some of us believers have multiple degrees and above average IQ's and the insinuation that religion is for the less educated is, well, wrong ( and history tells us this considering some of the greatest scientists of the past were religious).
That said, there are more higher IQ atheists than there are higher IQ believers.

My (ex, sadly) father in law would be such a person. A very smart and impressive man, and very much a Christian.

Not, tho, a creationist.

I know people dont much care to have it pointed out that being an informed and honest yec is impossible, but there it is.

[PaulSacramento]

Some of us believers have multiple degrees and above average IQ's and the insinuation that religion is for the less educated is, well, wrong ( and history tells us this considering some of the greatest scientists of the past were religious).
That said, there are more higher IQ atheists than there are higher IQ believers.

Thanks for your 1st paragraph.

Is it even possible to interview All the atheists and All the believers and come to that particular conclusion?!

I think there was some sort of study done...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tific.html

It's not a big deal mind you, IQ's are just ONE part of the whole equation.
I don't find it unreasonable that people with higher IQ's tend to be atheists and the reason(s) is two fold:
Martial evidence based rational and reason.
Arrogance.

[RickD]

Some of us believers have multiple degrees and above average IQ's and the insinuation that religion is for the less educated is, well, wrong ( and history tells us this considering some of the greatest scientists of the past were religious).
That said, there are more higher IQ atheists than there are higher IQ believers.

My (ex, sadly) father in law would be such a person. A very smart and impressive man, and very much a Christian.

Not, tho, a creationist.

I know people dont much care to have it pointed out that being an informed and honest yec is impossible, but there it is.

Not a creationist?

A Christian that doesn't believe God created ? Peculiar...

[Audie]

Some of us believers have multiple degrees and above average IQ's and the insinuation that religion is for the less educated is, well, wrong ( and history tells us this considering some of the greatest scientists of the past were religious).
That said, there are more higher IQ atheists than there are higher IQ believers.

My (ex, sadly) father in law would be such a person. A very smart and impressive man, and very much a Christian.

Not, tho, a creationist.

I know people dont much care to have it pointed out that being an informed and honest yec is impossible, but there it is.

Not a creationist?

A Christian that doesn't believe God created ? Peculiar...

Nothing so odd about equivocation.

You might, of course, just look up "creationist".

[RickD]

Some of us believers have multiple degrees and above average IQ's and the insinuation that religion is for the less educated is, well, wrong ( and history tells us this considering some of the greatest scientists of the past were religious).
That said, there are more higher IQ atheists than there are higher IQ believers.

My (ex, sadly) father in law would be such a person. A very smart and impressive man, and very much a Christian.

Not, tho, a creationist.

I know people dont much care to have it pointed out that being an informed and honest yec is impossible, but there it is.

Not a creationist?

A Christian that doesn't believe God created ? Peculiar...

Nothing so odd about equivocation.

You might, of course, just look up "creationist".

Audie,

"Creationist" is a very broad term. It could mean anything from young earth creationist, to Theistic Evolutionist, aka evolutionary creationist. A creationist is simply someone who believes God created life on earth.

It'd be pretty difficult to find someone who calls himself a Christian, and doesn't believe that God created life on earth.

[Audie]

Some of us believers have multiple degrees and above average IQ's and the insinuation that religion is for the less educated is, well, wrong ( and history tells us this considering some of the greatest scientists of the past were religious).
That said, there are more higher IQ atheists than there are higher IQ believers.

My (ex, sadly) father in law would be such a person. A very smart and impressive man, and very much a Christian.

Not, tho, a creationist.

I know people dont much care to have it pointed out that being an informed and honest yec is impossible, but there it is.

Not a creationist?

A Christian that doesn't believe God created ? Peculiar...

Nothing so odd about equivocation.

You might, of course, just look up "creationist".

Audie,

"Creationist" is a very broad term. It could mean anything from young earth creationist, to Theistic Evolutionist, aka evolutionary creationist. A creationist is simply someone who believes God created life on earth.

It'd be pretty difficult to find someone who calls himself a Christian, and doesn't believe that God created life on earth.

Not that you looked up such a definition, but never mind-
what do you suggest?

(In the post you responded to, btw, you will notice that I said "yec" and your response about "created" was entirely irrelevant and inappropriate.)

[abelcainsbrother]

There Are various thoughts regarding the Gap Theory -- One is that 'why was the earth without form, and was void; and darkness was on the face of the deep". Since God Did create everything and further in the chapter, that which God created was 'good', something Must have happened between those two verses to mess everything up.

One thought is that there was a war in the angelic world and a once perfect world was torn apart by that when Satan was thrown out of heaven and was on the earth as the serpent.

Another thought is that That is when the dinosars and other 'pre-historic' animals were here and something destroyed That and a preform of man was around. Sort of fits with theistic evolution. But if men and women were already Here, then why create Adam and Eve. And the 1st people who were able to give birth had to come from Somewhere. So why Not have Adam and Eve be the 1st people.

But the flood came later -- Adam and Eve were the 1st people and lived for hundreds of years and had children as God had told them to -- they lived and died and Noah and his family became the 2nd 'starter' family.

That all is generally believed concerning the Gap Theory and it is biblical also. As far as a preform of man,these are called a Pre-Adamite race and the thing is,is we have actually found evidence with hominids that confirm a pre-adamite race.

The Gap Theory is not really like Theistic evolution because we believe there was a pre-adamite race.The evidence fits this interpretation and I think it is important to realize this.I know that creationists usually have a problem with the idea of a pre- adamite race and I know why biblically too.

However this IMO is only a problem for any creation interpretation that believes all things have gone on continually since the beginning of the creation like theistic evolutionists.They have hominids before man in the same world and this can be a problem biblically. But the reason why it doesn't apply to Gap creationism is because the former world perished completely which led to the earth being in the state its in in Genesis 1:2 and anything before Genesis 1:2 has nothing to do with this world,it is not the same world as this world,there was a gap in between both worlds so that God made this world after Genesis 1:2. So that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman and when they sinned death came to all man and women. It doesn't effect the gap theory because a pre-admite race existed in the former world before it perished.

The question about hominids is how do YEC's deal with them? I've heard them called cave man,or do they just ignore the evidence?

[crochet1949]

There Are various thoughts regarding the Gap Theory -- One is that 'why was the earth without form, and was void; and darkness was on the face of the deep". Since God Did create everything and further in the chapter, that which God created was 'good', something Must have happened between those two verses to mess everything up.

One thought is that there was a war in the angelic world and a once perfect world was torn apart by that when Satan was thrown out of heaven and was on the earth as the serpent.

Another thought is that That is when the dinosars and other 'pre-historic' animals were here and something destroyed That and a preform of man was around. Sort of fits with theistic evolution. But if men and women were already Here, then why create Adam and Eve. And the 1st people who were able to give birth had to come from Somewhere. So why Not have Adam and Eve be the 1st people.

But the flood came later -- Adam and Eve were the 1st people and lived for hundreds of years and had children as God had told them to -- they lived and died and Noah and his family became the 2nd 'starter' family.

That all is generally believed concerning the Gap Theory and it is biblical also. As far as a preform of man,these are called a Pre-Adamite race and the thing is,is we have actually found evidence with hominids that confirm a pre-adamite race.

The Gap Theory is not really like Theistic evolution because we believe there was a pre-adamite race.The evidence fits this interpretation and I think it is important to realize this.I know that creationists usually have a problem with the idea of a pre- adamite race and I know why biblically too.

However this IMO is only a problem for any creation interpretation that believes all things have gone on continually since the beginning of the creation like theistic evolutionists.They have hominids before man in the same world and this can be a problem biblically. But the reason why it doesn't apply to Gap creationism is because the former world perished completely which led to the earth being in the state its in in Genesis 1:2 and anything before Genesis 1:2 has nothing to do with this world,it is not the same world as this world,there was a gap in between both worlds so that God made this world after Genesis 1:2. So that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman and when they sinned death came to all man and women. It doesn't effect the gap theory because a pre-admite race existed in the former world before it perished.

The question about hominids is how do YEC's deal with them? I've heard them called cave man,or do they just ignore the evidence?

I've started researching the Gap Concept -- and it Would explain a few things -- except that Genesis 1:2 the earth was without form ; it was void." So how would anything that existed Before that leave anything to Be discovered. Sounds like the earth was a mass of 'stuff' that God sorted out / He gave it form.
And I've Also read somewhere that That is the way the culture at that time tells about something. That we are told 1st that God was the One who created everything. And Then the author was given the details about How God did the creating. And Then He goes into More detail about man.
So - So far all the fossils of everything that's being found Now -- was actually in the mass of 'stuff' that God put together for a 2nd time?
As for the preAdamic man looking like cavemen -- So -- the 1st world possibly did evolve -- and God destroyed that one and started over with Adam and Eve? So -- that would explain why people put evolution Above God's Word cause they believe that Bible Is fiction and it's only Been evolution all along. Because at what point does a Person decide to put God / Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit into the equation. At what point does a Man decide that salvation IS important. And at what point does a Man come up with the Ten Commandments to live by. At what point is a Man going to declare that everyone Including himself, are actually sinners and deserve to go to hell.
I still have the article -- there are several listed. Will continue to read that.

[abelcainsbrother]

There Are various thoughts regarding the Gap Theory -- One is that 'why was the earth without form, and was void; and darkness was on the face of the deep". Since God Did create everything and further in the chapter, that which God created was 'good', something Must have happened between those two verses to mess everything up.

One thought is that there was a war in the angelic world and a once perfect world was torn apart by that when Satan was thrown out of heaven and was on the earth as the serpent.

Another thought is that That is when the dinosars and other 'pre-historic' animals were here and something destroyed That and a preform of man was around. Sort of fits with theistic evolution. But if men and women were already Here, then why create Adam and Eve. And the 1st people who were able to give birth had to come from Somewhere. So why Not have Adam and Eve be the 1st people.

But the flood came later -- Adam and Eve were the 1st people and lived for hundreds of years and had children as God had told them to -- they lived and died and Noah and his family became the 2nd 'starter' family.

That all is generally believed concerning the Gap Theory and it is biblical also. As far as a preform of man,these are called a Pre-Adamite race and the thing is,is we have actually found evidence with hominids that confirm a pre-adamite race.

The Gap Theory is not really like Theistic evolution because we believe there was a pre-adamite race.The evidence fits this interpretation and I think it is important to realize this.I know that creationists usually have a problem with the idea of a pre- adamite race and I know why biblically too.

However this IMO is only a problem for any creation interpretation that believes all things have gone on continually since the beginning of the creation like theistic evolutionists.They have hominids before man in the same world and this can be a problem biblically. But the reason why it doesn't apply to Gap creationism is because the former world perished completely which led to the earth being in the state its in in Genesis 1:2 and anything before Genesis 1:2 has nothing to do with this world,it is not the same world as this world,there was a gap in between both worlds so that God made this world after Genesis 1:2. So that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman and when they sinned death came to all man and women. It doesn't effect the gap theory because a pre-admite race existed in the former world before it perished.

The question about hominids is how do YEC's deal with them? I've heard them called cave man,or do they just ignore the evidence?

I've started researching the Gap Concept -- and it Would explain a few things -- except that Genesis 1:2 the earth was without form ; it was void." So how would anything that existed Before that leave anything to Be discovered. Sounds like the earth was a mass of 'stuff' that God sorted out / He gave it form.
And I've Also read somewhere that That is the way the culture at that time tells about something. That we are told 1st that God was the One who created everything. And Then the author was given the details about How God did the creating. And Then He goes into More detail about man.
So - So far all the fossils of everything that's being found Now -- was actually in the mass of 'stuff' that God put together for a 2nd time?
As for the preAdamic man looking like cavemen -- So -- the 1st world possibly did evolve -- and God destroyed that one and started over with Adam and Eve? So -- that would explain why people put evolution Above God's Word cause they believe that Bible Is fiction and it's only Been evolution all along. Because at what point does a Person decide to put God / Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit into the equation. At what point does a Man decide that salvation IS important. And at what point does a Man come up with the Ten Commandments to live by. At what point is a Man going to declare that everyone Including himself, are actually sinners and deserve to go to hell.
I still have the article -- there are several listed. Will continue to read that.

I will tell you what Gap Theory creationists believe and why if you want me to. So no need to read what critics say about it.

As far as Genesis 1:2 you claim the problem is it says the earth is without form and void and you say that means there could have been no former world but the Hebrew words mean empty and waste and the earth is flooded because the Spirit of God is hovering/moving over the waters. So why is the earth flooded and how do we know a former world perished before Genesis 1:2? I already told you. 2nd Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was,being overflowed with water perished:". It is what the bible tells us,it is not just made up and this is why the Spirit oif God is moving over the waters and the earth is flooded in Genesis 1:2. It was by it being overflowed with water that it perished. So this is why the earth is without form and void/empty and waste. Another point to realize is that God does not really create during the 6 days in Genesis 1 because he just does work to fix it in order to make this world Genesis 2:2. So it cannot be true that there cannot have been a former world before Genesis 1:2 like YEC's and critics claim. This is all based on what the bible says,we are not just making up stuff like critics assert. They just don't want to believe it and choose to believe their interpretation they've been taught is true. And again the evidence in the earth confirms a former world different than this world perished so that God who wrote the book of life and the book of nature is confirmed correct.

No I did not say that Gap Theorist say hominids are cave man I said I've heard certain YEC's call them cave man and no no Gap Theorist believes life evolve in this world or the former world. The fossils all show fully formed creatures that lived in the former world until it perished completely unlike in Noah's flood in this world. No need to falsely accuse Gap Theorists of believing life evolves because none of us ever have believed evolution. We reject evolution as much as YEC's do.

And Gap Theorists have led many people to salvation through Jesus,they preach the gospel of Jesus too,so it is not right to claim or imply Gap Theorists preach a false gospel because we have a different interpretation when it comes to creation. It is not fair or true. This is not a salvation issue like with false religions and cults. Gap Theorists believe in and preach the same gospel as YEC's do.