Understanding the Trinity

[crochet1949]

And -- the Holy Spirit Does immediate come and indwell the new believer. So our body Does become the temple of the Holy Spirit.

We do NOT become a 'savior' also just because we've picked up our cross and follow Him.

[Katabole]

So - what does Scripture say about the Trinity / Godhead.
my Bible search yields no return for this phrase.

You won't find the phrase "Godhead" in some newer versions of the Bible. The wording has been changed.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

From Strong's Concordance: Godhead

#2304
theios
thi'-os

from 2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

#2305
theiotes
thi-ot'-ace

from theios 2304; divinity (abstractly):--godhead.

Acts 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Verse 29 is one of the very few verses in Scripture that describes, not the Father, not the Son but the Spirit of God speaking. And verse 39 shows the Spirit of God fully active at the beginning of the spread of the Gospel by the apostles in the New Testament.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

The Spirit of God gives life as testified by the Son.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will make alive your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

The Spirit of God raised Jesus from the dead.

The Trinity/Godhead is a mystery. Divinity is the nature or quality of being God. Within Christianity, it belongs to God alone, though God still allows us to understand part of His Supernature. There is a love relationship between the three; Father, Son and Spirit.

When Saint Patrick was asked to describe the Trinity, he picked up a clover leaf and used that as an example, in a very simple way, to describe the complexity of the structure of the Divinity of the Trinity/Godhead. There are many things that we comprehend that we do not understand and it's probably to our benefit that we do not understand them. But maybe one day God will allow us to understand fully his Supernature.

[bbyrd009]

Doctrine means 'what does God's Word say on' a given subject.

then state your doctrine, and i will state its antithesis, with Witnesses, so that we can clear this misunderstanding up, because while that is what "doctrine" is supposed to be, we obviously have believers with a Trinity doctrine, and believers without, both with Scriptural support, so apparently the definition of "doctrine" is not adhering to your definition of "doctrine."

So - what does Scripture say about the Trinity / Godhead.

my Bible search yields no return for this phrase.

That God is the Father, Jesus Christ is His Son, and the Holy Spirit. And what each part of the Godhead Does based on what Scripture says.

ergo, when you pick up your cross and follow Him, you become a savior, also. You become God, not a god, just as i am being advised to pray "Our Father, who is me on earth."

which i don't know if i disagree with that or not, mind, i am not disagreeing, because it depends upon how that is meant.

What do you mean by 'Witnesses' first of all. You've used that term with 'W' several times in the past. I've never asked about it.

well, "W" would be a ref to the Scriptural doctrine of verses "witnessing" for each other, wherein a doctrine is established on the testimony of "two or three witnesses." But i am also amenable to witnesses, little w, stories (best put in mythological form, like, Dao stories, that do not require perspective {no 'two sides to every story,' iow, like we have turned Scripture reading into}, fables) that illuminate a simple truth, i e "I can tell a pre-schooler to 'wait here for the present,' and they might be fooled into misunderstanding my word.'"

The term 'Godhead' is used in one passage in the NKJ version -- Colossians 2:9 "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;"

ergo, it has no "Witness," but let's see...
http://biblehub.com/greek/2320.htm
Noun, Feminine (ahem)
Transliteration: theotés
so here we see that it is "only used in one place" (Strong's), but it actually occurs in 5 places (hmm, 5, lol, you know what that means, right)
http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=godhead
all of them KJV. So, IRL, in one place (no Witness) and "feminine," which does not mean that it is irrelevant, ok, but that it should be put into perspective, and imo praying to Jesus is not the right perspective. Counting the cost, and picking up your cross and following Him, now that one i like. Just imo.

Matthew 28:18 - 20. "Go therefore, and make disciples of all he nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

It's the Bible, God's Word teaching / presenting the Tri-unity. the 3 - in- one. The term 'trinity' is Not found in the Bible -- but the teaching -- it's Presence Is definitely There. It is Assumed Because of it's useage.

yes, and it serves a purpose, Division, and it also obscures the Seven~fold Spirits of God, imo. Where are the other 4, in this model, this assumption, that causes so much division?

The first useage is in Genesis -- the creation of Man. 1:26 "Then God said "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." the 'Us' and 'Our'. Plural. Not singular.

hey, the Qur'an, and the Torah, have that also; i believe it, too. God, represented as plural, to suggest "beyond our comprehension." imo.

The role of the trinity in our salvation. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived and bore the Christ-child.
God became Man and dwelt amongst us. In the Form of Jesus Christ His Son. While here on earth -- Jesus Christ prayed to the Father. God raised His Son from the dead.

none of which use the word trinity, and none of which require it to get their point across. "Trinity" is chiefly an assumption derived without Witnesses to serve a specific purpose, imo, that of separating you from the herd. Now the rope of three cords is broken, and a Jew or a Muslim cannot be one of "us." Christ is reduced to "flesh," and is denied "in spirit."

"Thank you, God, that i am not like this guy, over here."

BYW -- in another post you said something about people Becoming God. NO. 'We' Never become 'God' or even Mini-Gods.

i would disagree here, and say that i have Witnesses for "we are to be like gods."

And, yes, Christians are challenged to pick up our cross daily and follow Him. That does Not mean that we 'become' Jesus Christ / God because He carried a real cross that He was hung on.

interesting to note that the punishment for Christ's charges was not even crucifixion, but stoning, huh. Have you explored how that changed? What happened?

It Does mean that Christians Are going to have problems in life -- simply because we Do accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior. We Will have problems because Of that -- so we are to Continue to live our Christian life and continue to Follow God's Word.

i think most Christians are admonished to avoid the cross at every turn, and "Count the cost" is made into a joke by us, who live in Paradise, and have no justifiable complaints, in a manner of speaking, even if the cracks are beginning to show. It is plain to see that when we mourn, the rest of the world dances, and vice-versa, sad to say.

Any of our telling of "counting the cost" would be met with laughter by just about everyone else on the planet, wadr.

It might be witnessed that our "costs" involve the reaping of our sowing, and run to complete loss of sovereignty (who is the last Republican potus that was confirmed by the pop vote, anyway? lol. Did you know that, right now, public schools are indoctrinating your children in how to acquiesce {roll over and play dead} to law enforcement?), financial profligacy, and now idle hands {ready for 50% unemployment? tomorrow?}, poisoned food, wrecked health, no immunity, no one dying in their sleep any more, and sterile (or often, worse) children.

and wadr i don't think these are the problems you envisioned.

[bbyrd009]

So - what does Scripture say about the Trinity / Godhead.
my Bible search yields no return for this phrase.

You won't find the phrase "Godhead" in some newer versions of the Bible. The wording has been changed.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

From Strong's Concordance: Godhead

#2304
theios
thi'-os

from 2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

#2305
theiotes
thi-ot'-ace

from theios 2304; divinity (abstractly):--godhead.

Acts 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Verse 29 is one of the very few verses in Scripture that describes, not the Father, not the Son but the Spirit of God speaking. And verse 39 shows the Spirit of God fully active at the beginning of the spread of the Gospel by the apostles in the New Testament.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

The Spirit of God gives life as testified by the Son.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will make alive your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

The Spirit of God raised Jesus from the dead.

The Trinity/Godhead is a mystery. Divinity is the nature or quality of being God. Within Christianity, it belongs to God alone, though God still allows us to understand part of His Supernature. There is a love relationship between the three; Father, Son and Spirit.

When Saint Patrick was asked to describe the Trinity, he picked up a clover leaf and used that as an example, in a very simple way, to describe the complexity of the structure of the Divinity of the Trinity/Godhead. There are many things that we comprehend that we do not understand and it's probably to our benefit that we do not understand them. But maybe one day God will allow us to understand fully his Supernature.

all of the gods i know have fallen; i am comfortable with "Unknown God," and "Mystery." Hopefully i addressed the rest of this; you say i "won't find the phrase "Godhead" in some newer versions of the Bible," and i suggest that you won't find any, pre-KJV, wadr.

[bbyrd009]

And -- the Holy Spirit Does immediate come and indwell the new believer. So our body Does become the temple of the Holy Spirit.

"the new believer" in what? might be a valid question; but i note that even someone called to Jesus out of a fear of hell seems to be started on a better path than not coming to any understanding at all there, perhaps.

We do NOT become a 'savior' also just because we've picked up our cross and follow Him.

well, i would seek the perspectives of those who have been witnessed to have picked up their crosses, wadr. Christ seemed to steadfastly refer to Himself as "Son of Man," and you have peers here suggesting that i pray "i am God, here on earth," which i am not sure that i can argue against, from a certain pov anyway. Eretz is our domain, after all.

also, i would like to get in here that i do not imagine that my posts rep truth, while yours rep error, or anything. My perspective lately is that you have a valid perspective, and i might reply with another perspective, and Truth is expressed in the margins, by taking both posts into account, much better than relying on one or the other.

[Kurieuo]

Doctrine means 'what does God's Word say on' a given subject.

then state your doctrine, and i will state its antithesis, with Witnesses, so that we can clear this misunderstanding up, because while that is what "doctrine" is supposed to be, we obviously have believers with a Trinity doctrine, and believers without, both with Scriptural support, so apparently the definition of "doctrine" is not adhering to your definition of "doctrine."

So - what does Scripture say about the Trinity / Godhead.

my Bible search yields no return for this phrase.

That God is the Father, Jesus Christ is His Son, and the Holy Spirit. And what each part of the Godhead Does based on what Scripture says.

ergo, when you pick up your cross and follow Him, you become a savior, also. You become God, not a god, just as i am being advised to pray "Our Father, who is me on earth."

which i don't know if i disagree with that or not, mind, i am not disagreeing, because it depends upon how that is meant.

What do you mean by 'Witnesses' first of all. You've used that term with 'W' several times in the past. I've never asked about it.

The term 'Godhead' is used in one passage in the NKJ version -- Colossians 2:9 "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;"

Matthew 28:18 - 20. "Go therefore, and make disciples of all he nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

It's the Bible, God's Word teaching / presenting the Tri-unity. the 3 - in- one. The term 'trinity' is Not found in the Bible -- but the teaching -- it's Presence Is definitely There. It is Assumed Because of it's useage.

The first useage is in Genesis -- the creation of Man. 1:26 "Then God said "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." the 'Us' and 'Our'. Plural. Not singular.

The role of the trinity in our salvation. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived and bore the Christ-child.
God became Man and dwelt amongst us. In the Form of Jesus Christ His Son. While here on earth -- Jesus Christ prayed to the Father. God raised His Son from the dead.

BYW -- in another post you said something about people Becoming God. NO. 'We' Never become 'God' or even Mini-Gods.
And, yes, Christians are challenged to pick up our cross daily and follow Him. That does Not mean that we 'become' Jesus Christ / God because He carried a real cross that He was hung on. It Does mean that Christians Are going to have problems in life -- simply because we Do accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior. We Will have problems because Of that -- so we are to Continue to live our Christian life and continue to Follow God's Word.

I might add that the doctrine is clearly articulated in the videos I linked to through, which covers the logical construct of the Trinity (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God and One), the Scriptural support for this doctrine found in both the Old Testament and New Testaments, the support found from even certain Jewish corners.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G2S5ziDcO0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRmIKU9e3FY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNt5NKSse0Y


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXjVU05odE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-aVQ8MELeg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAcDV270D_0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHdquQpVPiU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrmTjifCmw8

[crochet1949]

Mat 6:9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father who is me on earth, Hallowed be my name.
My kingdom come. my will be done On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For mine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.
Amen.

can you expand on this a little? it is a bit to distilled, perhaps, for me to accept. Do you have another Witness for this pov, or how do you justify the "who is me, on earth" part, iow. ty.

Kurieo, the fruit may perhaps come out here; i guess i am arguing this on another thread, already, so i may end up migrating that, we'll see.

Matthew 6:9 " In this manner, therefore, pray:
Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done. On earth as it is in heaven. vs 13 "...... For Yours is the kingdom...." One cross-reference listed is Matt. 26:42 and John 17:15. That entire chapter is wonderful.

I suspect the person who posted this was being a bit sarcastic.

[crochet1949]

Katabole

The word Godhead is used in the New King James Version.

[crochet1949]

And -- the Holy Spirit Does immediate come and indwell the new believer. So our body Does become the temple of the Holy Spirit.

"the new believer" in what? might be a valid question; but i note that even someone called to Jesus out of a fear of hell seems to be started on a better path than not coming to any understanding at all there, perhaps.

We do NOT become a 'savior' also just because we've picked up our cross and follow Him.

well, i would seek the perspectives of those who have been witnessed to have picked up their crosses, wadr. Christ seemed to steadfastly refer to Himself as "Son of Man," and you have peers here suggesting that i pray "i am God, here on earth," which i am not sure that i can argue against, from a certain pov anyway. Eretz is our domain, after all.

also, i would like to get in here that i do not imagine that my posts rep truth, while yours rep error, or anything. My perspective lately is that you have a valid perspective, and i might reply with another perspective, and Truth is expressed in the margins, by taking both posts into account, much better than relying on one or the other.

"the new believer' -- a better choice of words -- the person who has just accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior - has Just believed in their heart and confessed with their mouth to the Lord Jesus. The Holy Spirit immediately comes to indwell them. In other wards a believer doesn't have to wait for the Holy Spirit to come.
And some people Do first hear about hell and it Does scare them and they Do accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Because they know they don't want to be There and acknowledge the only True way to stay Out.

Well -- I'm sharing what Scripture says.

The Truth is God's Word. Compare posters words / thoughts with what God's Word says. And I'm a poster.

[bbyrd009]

I might add that the doctrine is clearly articulated in the videos

and i mean, in all due respect, you are welcome to them, ok. But, like the Confederate Flag, i have witnessed the fruit of the doctrine, which men make into a whip, and so i can read the doctrine with you and agree readily enough, on one fairly narrow plane; but when i observe that it is used for something that is anti-Christ, as tempting as it is, because after all it is i being offered the earthly crown here, i am tall lithe blue-eyed blond who would get to justify my understanding, my dogma, as Supreme, my White Jesus as the one who is holy, my Empire, by extension, America, that is, that is right with the might.

No others need even apply, see, because they don't talk like me, you have to confess Jesus with your lips to be saved, and accept Christ with your mouth. Because see this verse, right here, that means this, not that, and so add that to this one here,which means this, and has to mean this, nevermind that other verse, this means this, and only this, and so our Jesus is God, and yours is not, we can tell because the flesh part, the physical part, the part that profits nothing, but nevermind that part, we can tell it is different because it has different clothes on, you even used a word we don't use, and all your "judge by the fruit" and "witness works unto repentance" and "don't judge by the seen" are out of context, and you need to let us, who have already proven that our White Jesus is God, explain those things for you, and to you.

So Trinity to me starts out fine; a little exercise to define God, you know, practically speaking, because after all this "Unknown God" jazz just is not going to cut it, huh, we can't measure "Unknown," we don't have a box that size, and you better believe that we are going to have a measure, before we leave here today. See it's right here on the agenda; "Measure God today" i mean how are you going to figure out who "they" are until you define who "Us" is, right. Really, you should just leave that to us, elect some professionals lol.

I am good with any Trinity doctrine that allows that a guy claiming to be an Atheist, who nonetheless goes and manifests Christ, is accepted.

[bbyrd009]

Mat 6:9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father who is me on earth, Hallowed be my name.
My kingdom come. my will be done On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For mine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.
Amen.

can you expand on this a little? it is a bit to distilled, perhaps, for me to accept. Do you have another Witness for this pov, or how do you justify the "who is me, on earth" part, iow. ty.

Kurieo, the fruit may perhaps come out here; i guess i am arguing this on another thread, already, so i may end up migrating that, we'll see.

Matthew 6:9 " In this manner, therefore, pray:
Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done. On earth as it is in heaven. vs 13 "...... For Yours is the kingdom...." One cross-reference listed is Matt. 26:42 and John 17:15. That entire chapter is wonderful.

I suspect the person who posted this was being a bit sarcastic.

oh, duh.

[bbyrd009]

And -- the Holy Spirit Does immediate come and indwell the new believer. So our body Does become the temple of the Holy Spirit.

"the new believer" in what? might be a valid question; but i note that even someone called to Jesus out of a fear of hell seems to be started on a better path than not coming to any understanding at all there, perhaps.

We do NOT become a 'savior' also just because we've picked up our cross and follow Him.

well, i would seek the perspectives of those who have been witnessed to have picked up their crosses, wadr. Christ seemed to steadfastly refer to Himself as "Son of Man," and you have peers here suggesting that i pray "i am God, here on earth," which i am not sure that i can argue against, from a certain pov anyway. Eretz is our domain, after all.

also, i would like to get in here that i do not imagine that my posts rep truth, while yours rep error, or anything. My perspective lately is that you have a valid perspective, and i might reply with another perspective, and Truth is expressed in the margins, by taking both posts into account, much better than relying on one or the other.

"the new believer' -- a better choice of words -- the person who has just accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior - has Just believed in their heart and confessed with their mouth to the Lord Jesus. The Holy Spirit immediately comes to indwell them. In other wards a believer doesn't have to wait for the Holy Spirit to come.

well, let's be honest, you are describing your experience, perhaps, and i believe you, but other people might have actually "accepted" any number of things, maybe accepted that some guy in an ermine collar is now their priest or something, who knows what they "accepted," tbh. Time will tell. Ok, yes, a believer does not have to wait for the Spirit to come, which imo will translate into some evidence, which i would seek, before defining that anyone who has held their mouth right in the appropriate social milieu, and has thus been deemed "approved" by others in that environment--because after all se here is the verse right here that says all you have to do is confess, which has to mean verbally, from your lips, and be sure you say it like this. --actually has the Holy Spirit, or just got a fat dose of some tares, who knows. Yes, that can happen. But imo much more often, we are immediately led away from our "first love," and we end up with seven spirits worst than the first. Which seems like a bad thing, but imo is just the way the path is, or at least that is the path many people take, that their hearts may be revealed. And the fruit is plain, the clues to a person's heart are always abundant.

And some people Do first hear about hell and it Does scare them and they Do accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Because they know they don't want to be There and acknowledge the only True way to stay Out.

so, the old "i'll confess Jesus with my mouth, because i am afraid of hell" thing. Hey, it's how i started. It is self-preservation, and coming to Christ in fear, and not love, but whatever works to get one started, i guess. It got me to here. One finds what they seek.

Well -- I'm sharing what Scripture says.

but of course so is the other guy, "disputing" you; unless they or you are deliberately lying, which is rare imo.

The Truth is God's Word. Compare posters words / thoughts with what God's Word says. And I'm a poster.

There is no though that cannot be justified with some Scripture. So imo, what we actually do is divide ourselves, joints from marrow, by interpreting our understanding of Scripture to others. Of course when you post about a verse, you are posting "truth" as you see it, and that might be in reply to some post that you see as "not truth, because _________." Yet that poster almost surely was not being deliberately deceptive or anything.

So, the reality can be easier to see if you read an exchange by two other people; you might agree more with one--but usually not all, not every bit--and you might agree somewhat less with the other--but again, not all, still some agreement--and the clearest reflection of the truth--which is still not going to be any "Absolute truth" or anything, not by a longshot, prolly; it is just a closer reflection of truth than you had before--is realized in taking the two posts together, neither of which you agree with completely, or disagree with completely. God is in-between.

So iow it does me no good to present reams of "facts" or "proof" that the Trinity doctrine is nowhere in Scripture, say, because it quite obviously is in There, in some form, and many people believe it, and their belief in this is sharing the same vocabulary, but the actual spiritual practice of the belief is running the gamut of the bell-curve, in practice. Which is rarely discussed of course; it is usually either Trinny, or not, white or black, what are you picking, which one, when, again, God is surely better expressed in the margins, in the bell curve, in the part that is not "this one, or that one, which one will it be?" Because, regardles of what we "believe," it will be this one for max understanding of God, say, and that one for max oppression and control, and you can say that you pick one or the other all you like, but tbh no one is really listening to you anyway--unless they are--they are mostly watching, to see where you fall on the bell curve, which is what matters.

[bbyrd009]

Or, it does me no good to say that i am not God, i am not a narcissist, becuase i have confessed Jesus as my Savior, if the next words out of my mouth are no, you are wrong, and your post is wrong, and your interpretation of that verse is wrong, because i know, that this interp is right, see, i know now, that it has to mean this, and so i have just found a new way to be God, see, and now i am worse off, seven times worse, because now i got Scripture to prove my pov.

And even though i am persuaded that you are not lying, my posts should be taken differently, because i am telling the truth. My posts are of course different than everyone else's, who does not understand. Because after all, i am just here to help you. Because i know.

[bbyrd009]

the support found from even certain Jewish corners.

i like those, btw, they are cool. Let's not forget that Islam uses the same terminology, and means to express the same idea, God as "We," even if we are killing them for not agreeing with our version, verbatim. I like the "wheel of prophecy," for this, which i'll try to UL a copy, but it might be tiny, sorry:


ya, or non-existent, lol. google images has it, though.

[Kurieuo]