2pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
1) By the word of God.
2) The heavens were of old......
God had commanded age into His creation as it was being created. And this is backed up in the next verse.
ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
1) Of old... Age without time.
2) hast thou laid the foundation of the earth......
Foundation is the beginning of something that you are building or creating. So if the foundations were of old, age was added to the foundation creation of the earth as well as the heavens. The earth being created with age, but without time is backed up in the next verse.
ps 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.*
The word course* makes the meaning of this whole verse. A course of time is a direction of time. A full semester course would be a full time course. A half semester course would be half course. But what if time were not needed to complete the course?... So we have age without time, which puts the earth out of the course of time, as well as the heavens.
Foundation: basis: the fundamental assumptions from which something is begun or developed or calculated or explained;
Course:
Onward movement in a particular direction; progress: the course of events.
Movement in time; duration: in the course of a year.
So what verses use the word course as a reference to time or age?
2tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course*, I have kept the faith: 2chron 31:16 Beside their genealogy of males, from three years old and upward, even unto every one that entereth into the house of the LORD, his daily portion for their service in their charges according to their courses*; 2chron 31:17 Both to the genealogy of the priests by the house of their fathers, and the Levites from twenty years old and upward, in their charges by their courses*;.... Etc...
Course: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... try/course
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God created both man and animals fully formed and of age. He told the animals to go forth and multiply. You have to be of age to do so. Also, God did not create eggs. Some animals require birth through eggs. etc...
So if God creates life fully formed and of age without the passage of time. Why not all the rest as well? Is a planet, or a star more complicated than life?
So what does all this mean?
God created a 4.3 billion year old earth 6000 years ago. Age without the passage of time.
So was God trying to deceive us by doing this?
Nope. God knew that we would only understand time. That we would not understand eternity. So God created and placed all objects, according to age, in the universe so we could actually see and understand how things would form if actual time had passed.
Why not just make it all date 6000 years old?
How would we understand how time worked if it were this way? You would have stars and planets in different stages of formation. All dating the same age. How would we understand how the universe worked if it all was like this?
So is the time dating that science uses correct?
Yes. This is also why time dating has flaws. If a material that God has aged without time, is on something that is not old, it will date old because the dating methods would pick it up.
Age without the passage of time.....
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ikester7579
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ikester7579
- Newbie Member
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Another verse: 2 Kings 19:
25 Hast thou not heard long ago how I have done it, and of ancient times that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste fenced cities into ruinous heaps.
Here we see time mentioned twice.
Long ago=was when it happened.
Of ancient times I have formed it=age without the passage of time.
job 12:12 With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.
1) With the ancient is wisdom=that man was always here.
2) and in the length of days understanding=that knowing the days were 24 hours.
ps 77:5 I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient times.
1) I have considered the days of old=the days of creation.
2) the years of ancient times=age without the passage of time
is 37:26 Hast thou not heard long ago, how I have done it; and of ancient times, that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste defenced cities into ruinous heaps.
Same as 2 kings 19:25
is 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Two different times are mentioned again. Both referring to the begining.
1) Ancient time=age without the passage of time.
2) Who have told it from that time=the creation of when ancient time was added to the creation.
is 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
In this verse it is made clear. The end from the beginning, and ancient time, are different.
1) Declaring the end from the beginning=the end of time from the beginning of time. Time as we know it.
2) and from ancienct times=showing that age and time are seperate. And that ancient time was added to to the "end from the beginning" timeline.
etc...
25 Hast thou not heard long ago how I have done it, and of ancient times that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste fenced cities into ruinous heaps.
Here we see time mentioned twice.
Long ago=was when it happened.
Of ancient times I have formed it=age without the passage of time.
job 12:12 With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.
1) With the ancient is wisdom=that man was always here.
2) and in the length of days understanding=that knowing the days were 24 hours.
ps 77:5 I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient times.
1) I have considered the days of old=the days of creation.
2) the years of ancient times=age without the passage of time
is 37:26 Hast thou not heard long ago, how I have done it; and of ancient times, that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste defenced cities into ruinous heaps.
Same as 2 kings 19:25
is 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Two different times are mentioned again. Both referring to the begining.
1) Ancient time=age without the passage of time.
2) Who have told it from that time=the creation of when ancient time was added to the creation.
is 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
In this verse it is made clear. The end from the beginning, and ancient time, are different.
1) Declaring the end from the beginning=the end of time from the beginning of time. Time as we know it.
2) and from ancienct times=showing that age and time are seperate. And that ancient time was added to to the "end from the beginning" timeline.
etc...
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SpaceCase
- Familiar Member
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I see the age part, but I don't see the 'without time' part
Especially not in alternate versions...
language is a very dynamic entity...
You need to use a recent version, so that it has been translated with modern english...
"the heavens were of old" becomes "the heavens existed long ago"
and your "course" becomes "shaken"
NASB from biblegateway.com
2pet 3:5
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
ps 102:25
25"Of old You founded the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
ps 82:5
5 They do not know nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
2 Kings 19
25'Have you not heard?
Long ago I did it;
From ancient times I planned it
Now I have brought it to pass,
That you should turn fortified cities into ruinous heaps.
job 12:12
12"Wisdom is with aged men,
With long life is understanding.
ps 77:5
5 I have considered the days of old,
The years of long ago.
Lots of different versions at biblegateway.com
Next time cross reference versions to make sure it is saying what you think it is...
Age WITH time...
Of course since Relativity allows for variable rates of time in moving reference frames and/or gravity conditions...
6 days can equal 14 billion years... depending where you're standing...
Especially not in alternate versions...
language is a very dynamic entity...
You need to use a recent version, so that it has been translated with modern english...
"the heavens were of old" becomes "the heavens existed long ago"
and your "course" becomes "shaken"
NASB from biblegateway.com
2pet 3:5
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
ps 102:25
25"Of old You founded the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
ps 82:5
5 They do not know nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
2 Kings 19
25'Have you not heard?
Long ago I did it;
From ancient times I planned it
Now I have brought it to pass,
That you should turn fortified cities into ruinous heaps.
job 12:12
12"Wisdom is with aged men,
With long life is understanding.
ps 77:5
5 I have considered the days of old,
The years of long ago.
Lots of different versions at biblegateway.com
Next time cross reference versions to make sure it is saying what you think it is...
Age WITH time...
Of course since Relativity allows for variable rates of time in moving reference frames and/or gravity conditions...
6 days can equal 14 billion years... depending where you're standing...