Kurieuo wrote:Of course, the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary -- that makes Him male.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
so then God the Father is not really His Father? the HS is?
In the sense I think you view such, neither are Jesus' father. Think more in qualitative terms rather than earthly.
I care not to elaborate on that further, unless you wish to argue that the Father is "the Father" because this person in the Godhead impregnated Mary akin to a man impregnating a woman. Such a belief opens up a Pandora's box of wrong beliefs, some of which Muslims accuse Christians of holding.
If you believe such, then I'd first have you make your case for such Scripturally.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Kurieuo wrote:Of course, the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary -- that makes Him male.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
so then God the Father is not really His Father? the HS is?
In the sense I think you view such, neither are Jesus' father. Think more in qualitative terms rather than earthly.
I care not to elaborate on that further, unless you wish to argue that the Father is "the Father" because this person in the Godhead impregnated Mary akin to a man impregnating a woman. Such a belief opens up a Pandora's box of wrong beliefs, some of which Muslims accuse Christians of holding.
If you believe such, then I'd first have you make your case for such Scripturally.
as you say, i care not to elaborate further, as my response was not to start another debate. it was to answer a question someone else asked me.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them
Kurieuo wrote:Of course, the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary -- that makes Him male.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
so then God the Father is not really His Father? the HS is?
It Would mean that Jesus has both a divine and human nature. And THAT was necessary so that His shed blood Would take away our sinfulness and He Could be resurrected from the dead. Because If Jesus were simply another baby being born --he would only have a human nature-- his eventual death would simply be another death/ everyone would Still be dying in their sinfulness. BUT the Fact Is that Jesus was born To Show us the Father (because He WAS the Father, in the flesh).
And Jesus Christ Needed to ascend back up to the Father, so that the Holy Spirit Could come to mankind to indwell each believer at the moment of their salvation.
Jenna -- your response to my explanation --does it make sense? Agree? Disagree?
i agree that Jesus had both a divine and a human nature and that He needed to die for us. but that doesnt really explain the question i asked, sorry.
Take a look at Matthew 1:20 "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit."
And Luke 1:35 "An the angel answered and said to her "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God."
RickD wrote:
Maybe you can do what bbyrd009 failed to do, by making an actual, coherent argument as to why the Trinity isn't biblical.
yikes, someone actually lets you moderate a forum? You are disgusting, and you cannot quote me saying that the Trinity is not Biblical, you silly little man. And you are perfectly aware that my objection is to what men make of it, which is of course your favorite part, so of course you are forced into this antichrist position of belittling and dismissal, rather than face reality, which is that the Trinity as you currently grasp so desperately onto it is a completely pagan understanding, it is just a very thinly veiled attempt at polytheism, and the RCC picked it up at Nicea--or quite early anyway, before that even i think--and you are just a closet Papist, and also quite obviously exposing yourself in your insistence on your pov, so that you can add yourself to your list of gods, which are multiple, and include the Bible, and your own reflection in the mirror.
Ok,
I've had enough of this. One of the perks I get from those who let this disgusting, silly little man be a moderator, is that I can grant members nice vacations.
So, you are hereby granted a 7 day unpaid, man-made vacation.
If you decide to return, and continue on you current path, I can easily arrange a permanent vacation for you.
lol, ok, i prolly had that coming. My apologies.
I think we seek to over-define, "trinity" in this case, to essentially pin down "truth," and make it into a Law that we can then enforce, and you cannot justify the trinity doctrine with a holistic view of Scripture, nor can you witness any fruit of it, it seems to me. While the fruit of division and exclusion is apparent. Imo the Bible intentionally makes this a conundrum, and God is the Head of Christ, but you can't deny that Jesus called Himself "Son of Man," or that "Son of God" is not exclusive to Christ, using Scripture.
jenna wrote:
so then God the Father is not really His Father? the HS is?
It Would mean that Jesus has both a divine and human nature. And THAT was necessary so that His shed blood Would take away our sinfulness and He Could be resurrected from the dead. Because If Jesus were simply another baby being born --he would only have a human nature-- his eventual death would simply be another death/ everyone would Still be dying in their sinfulness. BUT the Fact Is that Jesus was born To Show us the Father (because He WAS the Father, in the flesh).
And Jesus Christ Needed to ascend back up to the Father, so that the Holy Spirit Could come to mankind to indwell each believer at the moment of their salvation.
Jenna -- your response to my explanation --does it make sense? Agree? Disagree?
i agree that Jesus had both a divine and a human nature and that He needed to die for us. but that doesnt really explain the question i asked, sorry.
Take a look at Matthew 1:20 "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit."
And Luke 1:35 "An the angel answered and said to her "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God."
imo, the power of God was what made Mary pregnant. that is how she conceived.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them
crochet1949 wrote:Jenna -- are we contemplating or ending the subject? Just wondering.
i am not contemplating or ending it. if you wish to continue, thats great by me. definitely do not want to get into a long drawn out arguement though. that benefits nobody.
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them
crochet1949 wrote:Jenna -- are we contemplating or ending the subject? Just wondering.
i am not contemplating or ending it. if you wish to continue, thats great by me. definitely do not want to get into a long drawn out arguement though. that benefits nobody.
I know what you mean Jenna. We wouldn't want you to to be informed about a subject before arguing against it.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
crochet1949 wrote:Jenna -- are we contemplating or ending the subject? Just wondering.
i am not contemplating or ending it. if you wish to continue, thats great by me. definitely do not want to get into a long drawn out arguement though. that benefits nobody.
I know what you mean Jenna. We wouldn't want you to to be informed about a subject before arguing against it.
Now RickD -- Please give this a chance. We're all Friends, right?!
crochet1949 wrote:Jenna -- are we contemplating or ending the subject? Just wondering.
i am not contemplating or ending it. if you wish to continue, thats great by me. definitely do not want to get into a long drawn out arguement though. that benefits nobody.
I know what you mean Jenna. We wouldn't want you to to be informed about a subject before arguing against it.
Now RickD -- Please give this a chance. We're all Friends, right?!
Of course we're all friends. But Jenna is "special". She needs us to hold her hand whilst we walk her through this.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
We're all Friends, right?!