R E L I G I O N O F P E A C E

[Kurieuo]

I've changed my opinion over the years, and do see Muslims in different stripes.

Melanie pointed out some time back, that many Saudi Muslims are Wahhabists. This is considered an aberration and blight upon Islam by many Muslims, although some stand saying Muslim is Muslim (internal dispute).

Fact of the matter is, it are such who cause problems in the Middle East as far as I see. With their extreme ideology, they too target many others who have been abused by Western interventions and conquests. For example, Iraq, which goes back to early 1990's and the Gulf War, sanctions imposed by the US security at the time which literally resulted in whole generations being wiped out, borderline genocide of infants and children -- all for what we know to be a "false" fear (flag) the fabled "weapons of mass destruction".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OLPWlMmV7s

The increase in cancer and child deformities due to the uranium in bombings, the lack of medicines and destablisation of society, children growing up without parents, having relatives and friends die due to Western sanctions, indeed such feeds quite easily in the West being Satan. Such people were ripe for the picking by "Islamic State in Iraq and Syria" (ISIS/ISIL) and an ideology that would allow some sort of rising and revenge.

Now, when we have "terrorist attacks" it is screamed, Muslim, Muslim... and indeed, such are likely Muslim due to their location and Arabic origins. Yet, then, prior to such, many didn't mind Westerners, in fact England in early 1900s was throughout the Middle East without much issue -- and they too started opening up channels for distribution of the wealth of Middle Eastern states (aka oil) to the West (e.g., Saddam Hussein being installed, helping establish the State of Israel on top of Palestine, etc).

One fact of the matter is, that Qu'ran can be used to support violence, yet many Muslims never considered such in this light and preferred to live peacefully side-by-side. Syria was perhaps a model state of Muslims and Christians living along side each other in relative peace, until extreme Muslims (that is Al-Qaeda who make up the bulk of ISIS/ISIL) entered and killed both Muslim and Christians (though Christians had no real chance from escaping eradication).

So then, while I think Ed you might be naive in striping Islam and it's origins in Muhammad the same as say Christianity and it's origins in Christ; I myself accept there is also truth in not calling the issue Islam. The issue runs much deeper and spans over a hundred years, Western intervention and our partnering with Saudis since early 1900s to conquer the Ottoman Empire and like -- decisions to have such a partnership helped set the stage today. To this day, we turn a blind eye to the Saudis, even though we know Saudis were responsible and even funded 9/11, not Saddam who was repulsed by use of chemical weapons, not Iraq, not Islam in such places.

Western Christianity = Wahabbi, and we are in an unholy alliance with them, and they mirror each other. Wahabbi = Islam like WC = following after Christ, which is to say "not."

You really need to lay off your prescribed medicine, it seems to be confusing you greatly.

[bbyrd009]

Western Christianity = Wahabbi, and we are in an unholy alliance with them, and they mirror each other. Wahabbi = Islam like WC = following after Christ, which is to say "not."

To bring other users up to speed here, you spent how many years abroad in Islamic countries before you settled in the U.S.?

a few years in childhood, plus i have traveled there. Not extensive, but enough to know they are people, just like us. Even Wahabbis.

[bbyrd009]

You really need to lay off your prescribed medicine, it seems to be confusing you greatly.

ya well i'm not the one sending the country's wealth to oppressive regimes to run my car, while simultaneously sending the nation's natural gas to the far east for some multinationals profit margin, either. And prolly bombing their neighbors on either side to boot, also with your blessing.

I understand you have to justify all that somehow, and if attacking me--which is apparently ok here, at least if you are a mod?--makes you feel better for a minute, then go for it. Then go pray you see Jesus when you die and "go to heaven," which is nowhere in Scripture, and let me know how that works out for you, ok.

Imo that is all "sheep to the slaughter," and you will have no reply to "remember, in your life you had all the good things." Although of course you feel entitled to them now, and they just seem normal to you, i guess. Hitler is going to be treated more kindly than we are by history. If you only knew half of what is being done in your name, you would not be so blithe i don't think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nndAWd6w7xo

[RickD]

You really need to lay off your prescribed medicine, it seems to be confusing you greatly.

ya well i'm not the one sending the country's wealth to oppressive regimes to run my car, while simultaneously sending the nation's natural gas to the far east for some multinationals profit margin, either. And prolly bombing their neighbors on either side to boot, also with your blessing.

I understand you have to justify all that somehow, and if attacking me--which is apparently ok here, at least if you are a mod?--makes you feel better for a minute, then go for it. Then go pray you see Jesus when you die and "go to heaven," which is nowhere in Scripture, and let me know how that works out for you, ok.

Imo that is all "sheep to the slaughter," and you will have no reply to "remember, in your life you had all the good things." Although of course you feel entitled to them now, and they just seem normal to you, i guess. Hitler is going to be treated more kindly than we are by history. If you only knew half of what is being done in your name, you would not be so blithe i don't think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nndAWd6w7xo

Let me apologize for Kurieuo. He obviously misspoke. It's clear to me, that you really need to take your prescribed medication.

[Hortator]

To bring other users up to speed here, you spent how many years abroad in Islamic countries before you settled in the U.S.?

a few years in childhood, plus i have traveled there. Not extensive, but enough to know they are people, just like us. Even Wahabbis.

If you could bare with me for just a little more, I promise it's for everyone's gain. Call it satisfying curiosity, or proving a point, and both are correct.

So your few years in childhood, to use your words are closely as possible, were how many and when? Like, most of your formative growth period, or was it after or before? Also you mentioned you traveled there. Is this sporadic, periodic, annually, or very often?

It may seem like interrogating questions, but like I said, bare with me for a moment, if you would.

[bbyrd009]

To bring other users up to speed here, you spent how many years abroad in Islamic countries before you settled in the U.S.?

a few years in childhood, plus i have traveled there. Not extensive, but enough to know they are people, just like us. Even Wahabbis.

If you could bare with me for just a little more, I promise it's for everyone's gain. Call it satisfying curiosity, or proving a point, and both are correct.

So your few years in childhood, to use your words are closely as possible, were how many and when? Like, most of your formative growth period, or was it after or before? Also you mentioned you traveled there. Is this sporadic, periodic, annually, or very often?

It may seem like interrogating questions, but like I said, bare with me for a moment, if you would.

i would say a small chunk of formative growth, age 7 to 10 or 11, and sporadic travel, to Jerusalem and the Sinai. A fledgling importing business, and exporting tourists for dental work, implants, for dental vacations, like that.

[crochet1949]

You really need to lay off your prescribed medicine, it seems to be confusing you greatly.

ya well i'm not the one sending the country's wealth to oppressive regimes to run my car, while simultaneously sending the nation's natural gas to the far east for some multinationals profit margin, either. And prolly bombing their neighbors on either side to boot, also with your blessing.

I understand you have to justify all that somehow, and if attacking me--which is apparently ok here, at least if you are a mod?--makes you feel better for a minute, then go for it. Then go pray you see Jesus when you die and "go to heaven," which is nowhere in Scripture, and let me know how that works out for you, ok.

Imo that is all "sheep to the slaughter," and you will have no reply to "remember, in your life you had all the good things." Although of course you feel entitled to them now, and they just seem normal to you, i guess. Hitler is going to be treated more kindly than we are by history. If you only knew half of what is being done in your name, you would not be so blithe i don't think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nndAWd6w7xo

Let me apologize for Kurieuo. He obviously misspoke. It's clear to me, that you really need to take your prescribed medication.

Do Something with that prescribed medication.

[bbyrd009]

Well, i understand that many of those points up there are not too pleasant to contemplate, but unfortunately the whole truth would surely break your hearts. Prolly mine, too. More than one USGov worker in the know has directly stated as much. So, we manifest 1Sam8 whether we want to admit it or not. Not admitting it does not make it any less true; it just possibly makes you feel a bit more justified in accusing me of some pharmakopea that does not exist, rather than addressing reality, that does.

You cannot serve two masters, and that is exactly what this means. If you identify with being a citizen and serving your country, then you have made a choice. This is why we are called to "change our minds." Pledging allegiance to something makes you a party to whatever you are pledging allegiance to, and ignorance will not be accepted as an excuse.

That stuff is all "the world," and you either leave the world or you do not. The pharmakopea i would be reflecting upon is the tares that you have been fed since you were in the cradle. I didn't make up any of that info, i am just putting it in your face, so what is the point of trying to discredit me, if the info becomes no less or more true?

[jenna]

Well, i understand that many of those points up there are not too pleasant to contemplate, but unfortunately the whole truth would surely break your hearts. Prolly mine, too. More than one USGov worker in the know has directly stated as much. So, we manifest 1Sam8 whether we want to admit it or not. Not admitting it does not make it any less true; it just possibly makes you feel a bit more justified in accusing me of some pharmakopea that does not exist, rather than addressing reality, that does.

You cannot serve two masters, and that is exactly what this means. If you identify with being a citizen and serving your country, then you have made a choice. This is why we are called to "change our minds." Pledging allegiance to something makes you a party to whatever you are pledging allegiance to, and ignorance will not be accepted as an excuse.

That stuff is all "the world," and you either leave the world or you do not. The pharmakopea i would be reflecting upon is the tares that you have been fed since you were in the cradle. I didn't make up any of that info, i am just putting it in your face, so what is the point of trying to discredit me, if the info becomes no less or more true?

we are not trying to discredit you, we are trying to understand you, as your words are so jumbled and make no sense. that being said,

[Hortator]

we are not trying to discredit you, we are trying to understand you, as your words are so jumbled and make no sense. that being said,

This was why I was trying to "biography" byrd above. I just want everyone, including myself, to know where you're coming from Byrd. You have a very unique perspective after all

[bbyrd009]

i'm mostly ex-Pentecostal, last 25 years but 5, so that is really a small part.

you guys might consider that you have been accepted into a system wherein life does not even start for you until some future, undefined date, and those we have accepted this model from would interpret "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" as Paul waiting to die to be with Jesus, with a straight face. And that we are all initially invited into "the faith" by playing on our fear of hell, in eternity, and while this is fine for an initial understanding, as hell is very real, it is nonetheless a fear-based belief that is not of God, and may vastly miscomprehend hell, as a 5 minute conversation with a Jew, or in fact less than 10 minutes of Bible search would clarify for most people.

So "God is the Head of Christ" and "we are the body of Christ" and "Understand I AM" and "you reap what you sow" and "there is no place called hell" might seem like some unique perspective, i guess, it is just normal to me now, lots of people believe it, some variation of "kingdom now" most likely, although i'm not sure exactly what their doctrine is.

And i'm not tryna say i know anything, ok, but i would keep an open mind, if your current model points to some future place as reward for holding some certain belief in a past event now, and all you get now is the belief, and the understanding that anyone who disputes it is lost and going to hell. And your most important life events, confession, rebound, communion, 3 baptisms, are all rituals? Just keep an open mind, ok? Because none of those are rituals imo.

[jenna]

i'm mostly ex-Pentecostal, last 25 years but 5, so that is really a small part.

you guys might consider that you have been accepted into a system wherein life does not even start for you until some future, undefined date, and those we have accepted this model from would interpret "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" as Paul waiting to die to be with Jesus, with a straight face. And that we are all initially invited into "the faith" by playing on our fear of hell, in eternity, and while this is fine for an initial understanding, as hell is very real, it is nonetheless a fear-based belief that is not of God, and may vastly miscomprehend hell, as a 5 minute conversation with a Jew, or in fact less than 10 minutes of Bible search would clarify for most people.

So "God is the Head of Christ" and "we are the body of Christ" and "Understand I AM" and "you reap what you sow" and "there is no place called hell" might seem like some unique perspective, i guess, it is just normal to me now, lots of people believe it, some variation of "kingdom now" most likely, although i'm not sure exactly what their doctrine is.

And i'm not tryna say i know anything, ok, but i would keep an open mind, if your current model points to some future place as reward for holding some certain belief in a past event now, and all you get now is the belief, and the understanding that anyone who disputes it is lost and going to hell. And your most important life events, confession, rebound, communion, 3 baptisms, are all rituals? Just keep an open mind, ok? Because none of those are rituals imo.

your words are so jumbled and make no sense.

[bbyrd009]

i'm mostly ex-Pentecostal, last 25 years but 5, so that is really a small part.

you guys might consider that you have been accepted into a system wherein life does not even start for you until some future, undefined date, and those we have accepted this model from would interpret "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" as Paul waiting to die to be with Jesus, with a straight face. And that we are all initially invited into "the faith" by playing on our fear of hell, in eternity, and while this is fine for an initial understanding, as hell is very real, it is nonetheless a fear-based belief that is not of God, and may vastly miscomprehend hell, as a 5 minute conversation with a Jew, or in fact less than 10 minutes of Bible search would clarify for most people.

So "God is the Head of Christ" and "we are the body of Christ" and "Understand I AM" and "you reap what you sow" and "there is no place called hell" might seem like some unique perspective, i guess, it is just normal to me now, lots of people believe it, some variation of "kingdom now" most likely, although i'm not sure exactly what their doctrine is.

And i'm not tryna say i know anything, ok, but i would keep an open mind, if your current model points to some future place as reward for holding some certain belief in a past event now, and all you get now is the belief, and the understanding that anyone who disputes it is lost and going to hell. And your most important life events, confession, rebound, communion, 3 baptisms, are all rituals? Just keep an open mind, ok? Because none of those are rituals imo.

your words are so jumbled and make no sense.

i don't expect them to, to anyone who accepts a future hell as a place, to be feared by them. But go show this convo to a Jew, and he is going to wonder what it is you don't understand. And i don't mean "go be a Jew" here, but "question your premises." If you currently accept the premise that you know where you are going when you die, or that Paul craved death so that he could then be with Jesus somewhere, or "the Bible is the Word," or any of the other death-centered beliefs suggested to you by men with a worldly agenda, then at least be open to seeing more rungs on the ladder, and recognize that you find what you seek, and the Spirit will guide you into all truth.

Meaning it doesn't matter if you understand me or not, i am just speaking a reflection, and if you seek where the Spirit leads you, you will get it the way you need to get it.

Our spiritual state is described exactly in Scripture, somewhere, and we each have to deal with the passages about the Seven Churches in our selves, or not. And this can be reduced to ritual, religious observance, or manifest in one's life; you can go assume transubstantiation, and take your communion in a congregation, or you can recognize a spiritual communion, and get the point. The rituals are fine, for learning; but they point to the things that actually have meanings, and do not mean anything of themselves.

So if the rituals have meaning for you, fine; but you are not going to understand me much, prolly. If you understand the list of several things required in order for one to be considered "accepted" as a Christian, by other Christians, so that we may then "commend ourselves to each other," and you currently hold them as absolute truth, inviolable, then see what you will see. There is another way to understand those passages, when you are ready. Don't find love until you are ready.

All are deceived, so i am not condemning anyone, ok. See that faith is advertised as descending from, being a product of our beliefs, but "Love believes all things." Beliefs descend from, manifest from faith, and should change as the person changes their minds, and gets more hearing, increasing faith. But if one's faith descends from their beliefs, it becomes necessary to then defend beliefs, as if we knew them for facts--which is not true--and this is condemned by Scripture imo.