Obama's Dangerous $$$ Legacy!

[edwardmurphy]

1) That's not a change in tone.

2) I put a lot of effort into specifically not doing that. I don't make blanket statements about Christians, or conservatives, or Republicans. I'm not pushing a persecution narrative, or looking to blame everything that's ever gone wrong in our country on one group or ideology. I don't always succeed at seeing the big picture or taking the long view, but I try damned hard. You don't try at all. You just lean into your prejudices while denying that that's what they are.

[abelcainsbrother]

Back to the legacy of unfathomably immense debt at BO brought us.

"You ain't seen nothin' yet"

I'll be very interested to see if the fiscal hawks in Congress will be willing to stand up against all the stimulus spending that Trump wants to put in place.
Trump's folks are already asking for the debt ceiling to be raised.
If Congress gives Trump everything he wants then Trump will make Obama look like Scrooge where spending and the National Debt are concerned.

What do you think the odds are that Republicans in Congress will threaten to shut down the Government to reign in Trump's overspending plans?

So you're saying that now since Trump is the President Republicans should finally really be conservatives after all of these years of not caring about government spending? You're not looking at the big picture when it comes to Trump's economic plans,you're only looking at one aspect of it while not understanding Trump's vision and economic plans. Being a conservative I once would have been against government spending but not when it comes to Trump. For one, we've never really had limited conservative government spending,two Trump's economic plan will allow for the spending he wants to do if all of his economic plan is implemented.three Trump ran on improving America's infrastructure, roads,airports,bridges,the wall,improving America's inner cities,etc,he ran on it and won. Normally I would be opposed to this kind of government spending but not if Trump's economic plan is fully put in place because it will pay for the spending he wants to do. It will be on time and under budget. This is because other countries are no longer going to get a free ride off of America like they have been doing and just this alone will pay for the spending Trump wants to do. You obviously are overlooking how much advantage other countries are taking advantage of and benefitting from America but it's going to stop. Even before Trump ever ran we've known how other countries make loads of money using America to do it. Many countries do not have to spend money on a military because America provides them security. There are many ways other countries have used America to benefit themselves and yet we have trues allies and ones that should be but aren't like Saudi Arabia for an example or China. By negotiating better with Trump a lot of this taking advantage of America will stop
and America will benefit. Add in tax cuts and less government regulations and America's economy will be booming and will have the money to improve our infrastructure.Now you can chock this up to trade wars as I'm sure you will but no it is just putting America first.

[DBowling]

Normally I would be opposed to this kind of government spending but not if Trump's economic plan is fully put in place because it will pay for the spending he wants to do. It will be on time and under budget.

Trump has offered many platitudes, but he has offered nothing that resembles 'a plan' for how he's going to pay for all his stimulus spending.
'Make America Great Again', 'on time', and 'under budget' is not a plan.

Obama tried the 'stimulus spending' approach and we saw how that worked. Why do we think that Trump taking a page out of Obama's spending book won't also result in skyrocketing debt?

Trump's upcoming tariffs and trade war are also going to hit the American consumer right in the pocket book. And we know where tariffs and trade wars lead too... this thing called 'inflation'... that we really haven't seen rear its ugly head for quite a while.

And we actually got to see what deficit spending eventually does to a national economy a few years ago... remember Greece?

Now that Republicans control both houses of Congress, America has an opportunity to actually address our country's deficit spending problem.
But implementing Trump's spending plans will make the nations deficit woes worse, and move our country even closer to 'Greece on steroids'.

[Philip]

DBowling: Now that Republicans control both houses of Congress, America has an opportunity to actually address our country's deficit spending problem.
But implementing Trump's spending plans will make the nations deficit woes worse, and move our country even closer to 'Greece on steroids'.

NO doubt that we have to be careful. But one thing Trump definitely has right is that Europe, particularly, has long had American protections on our dime. They need to begin paying their own share. That's a huge thing, right there.

As both houses of Congress are controlled, IF the Republicans can't do a lot of positive things - or worse, they make things spiral any more, or become any worse, then THAT is it - as in, why would they continue to be relevant? They better not screw up their present golden opportunity. And Trump better be willing to others with expertise he doesn't have - ESPECIALLY whenever they tell him he is wrong, or needs to reconsider. I hope his obvious thin skin and ego doesn't keep him from truly listening to smart people. I hope he will keep his big mouth shut as the left tries to pull him into damaging and petty arguments. Really, he seems an easy person to bait!

And instead of continuing to demonize him for everything he's ever done or said, the left should be hopeful that he might actually do some good things, and implement some good ideas. Yep, hold him accountable for negative words and actions OF THE PRESENT AND ONGOING, but shut the crap about things he's said in the past! HOPE that he has changed in important ways. He can't change his past. And he is now ALL Americans' president. We had best ALL wish him to be a good one! Surely there are areas in which there can be common ground and agreement for mutually beneficial things. You don't like certain things, then implement positive ones as a response. Don't just feed and nourish the venom of the haters. If conservatives had treated Obama, in his first period post him being elected, as the left has Trump - must imagine the uproar!

[abelcainsbrother]

Normally I would be opposed to this kind of government spending but not if Trump's economic plan is fully put in place because it will pay for the spending he wants to do. It will be on time and under budget.

Trump has offered many platitudes, but he has offered nothing that resembles 'a plan' for how he's going to pay for all his stimulus spending.
'Make America Great Again', 'on time', and 'under budget' is not a plan.

Obama tried the 'stimulus spending' approach and we saw how that worked. Why do we think that Trump taking a page out of Obama's spending book won't also result in skyrocketing debt?

Trump's upcoming tariffs and trade war are also going to hit the American consumer right in the pocket book. And we know where tariffs and trade wars lead too... this thing called 'inflation'... that we really haven't seen rear its ugly head for quite a while.

And we actually got to see what deficit spending eventually does to a national economy a few years ago... remember Greece?

Now that Republicans control both houses of Congress, America has an opportunity to actually address our country's deficit spending problem.
But implementing Trump's spending plans will make the nations deficit woes worse, and move our country even closer to 'Greece on steroids'.

I understand your concern but I don't see how you can say that Trump has not been specific. I listened to many Trump rallies where he was specific about his vision and economic plans. I think that you have been listening to establishment types,politicians,critics,etc of Trump and have bought into the reasons they claim it won't work. You may believe these naysayers talking about can't never could do anything but I understand Trump's vision and economic plans and I understand that Trump is offering stuff no politician would ever offer. Trump is not a politician,he's a businessman and so he is looking at things totally different than a politician would. Of course this goes against the grain of what they are used to. Larry Kudlow helped Trump with his economic plan and to suggest that Larry
Kudlow doesn't understand economics and the naysayers are right I just cannot accept. You don't even understand Trump's vision and economic plan and I can tell with how you bring up tariffs. You imply tariffs is how Trump will collect money for his spending but it is not about tariffs so much but more about negotiating better deals and bringing up what other countries make off of America when you're negotiating and this is then used as leverage while negotiating. Tariffs are only for more leverage in certain situations but not all. It is about charging countries for security America provides for them,etc and not allowing the free ride to continue.

I'll give you an example take Saudi Arabia where the US Military provides military protection for their country. America blesses them and they don't have to spend money for a military,yet they make billions of dollars off of America because of this,then manipulate our gas prices here in the US stabbing America in the back while acting like a friend. Trump will not allow this when negotiating and they can be charged for the security America provides for them and that money could be going to improve our infrastructure here in America. If Saudi Arabia resists,acts out in anger,etc? We can close down our military bases,bring our troops home and make up the money that way and they can spend their own money on a military.They will buckle to America because America has the upper hand in any negotiations with any country.Tariffs will not be needed.

I'll make a bold prediction and say that it won't be very long until Mexico builds the wall,pays for the wall. You watch! Now I don't know the future unless God revealed a prophecy to me,but I know how much advantage America has when negotiating and all of these naysayers who declared Mexico will not pay for it,etc will have to eat their words. I predict it won't be long before they buckle.

[edwardmurphy]

You really think that the supposedly small-government, conservative, budget hawks in Congress are going to fund a pointless wall that will cost 20+ billion dollars up front and hundreds of billions more in the long run based on Sideshow Don's assurances that Mexico will eventually pay us back?

Who am I kidding? Of course you do.

[RickD]

You really think that the supposedly small-government, conservative, budget hawks in Congress are going to fund a pointless wall that will cost 20+ billion dollars up front and hundreds of billions more in the long run based on Sideshow Don's assurances that Mexico will eventually pay us back?

Who am I kidding? Of course you do.

Here's how Mexico could pay for the wall:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... ent=safari

[abelcainsbrother]

You really think that the supposedly small-government, conservative, budget hawks in Congress are going to fund a pointless wall that will cost 20+ billion dollars up front and hundreds of billions more in the long run based on Sideshow Don's assurances that Mexico will eventually pay us back?

Who am I kidding? Of course you do.

Pipe dream buddy. I've been waiting for years for Republicans to be real conservatives and cut government spending and it has never happened. Republicans are not as bad as liberals but they love government spending almost as much as Democrats. They will go ahead and fund the wall.but I predict it won't be long until it is clear how Mexico will pay for it. They make too much off of America not to. Yes,they are now eyeing China as a business partner but America is right beside them with the largest economy of any country and they need America more than you may realize. Plus they have been actively helping illegal immigrants break the immigration laws in the US. They have actually taught their citizens how to get in America and thwart our laws.

[edwardmurphy]

Well, I'll be damned. The House seems to be willing to drop 15 billion dollars on a wall. That's a strange decision, considering that a large majority of Americans don't even want a wall, but then it's not like our government listens to us anyway.

As far as Mexico paying for it, I read the article, and a couple more, and I still don't think it's likely. A value added tax on Mexican imports would just shift the cost to American consumers of imported goods. As an added bonus, if such a move were to hurt the Mexican economy we'd just end up with more Mexicans trying to get into the US. That would be a boon for manufacturers of longer ladders, but it would make the illegal immigration issue worse. The easiest ways to curtail illegal immigration would be to incentivize staying in Mexico (so allow the Mexican economy to remain strong) or to disincentivize the American tendency to hire illegal laborers by harshly penalizing them for doing so. I haven't seen either of those things proposed.

Anyway, we shall see.

[DBowling]

As far as Mexico paying for it, I read the article, and a couple more, and I still don't think it's likely. A value added tax on Mexican imports would just shift the cost to American consumers of imported goods.

Yeah... Trump is going to build his wall... and guess whose going to pay for it?
As always with government spending, the American taxpayer and consumer.

Make no mistake... tariffs are a tax on the American consumer. And it is the American consumer who will end up paying the bill for Trump's boondoggle.
That is the problem with all this trade war/tariff stupidity.
It is the American people who are hurt in the long run.
This is history... not theory.

Who is going to benefit by us pulling out of the TPP?
China is now going to be able to implement their trade partnership plan in the region that excludes the US.
How is that good for American trade and jobs?

And now Trump's alienating our 2nd largest trading partner and talking about pulling out of NAFTA.
Hopefully, some real Conservatives in Congress who understand international economics will be able to halt Trump's destructive nonsense before Americans start paying the price for Trump's stupidity.

We shouldn't expect this kind of nonsense from a Republican President. But as Trump's Trade War/Tariff plans and stimulus spending plans demonstrate, Trump is far from a fiscal Conservative.

My .02

[RickD]

After reading the article, I just don't see how the American taxpayer would be paying for the wall. It seems to me that the funding for the wall would come from whoever is exporting good to the US, by way of tariffs. In other words, you send products to the US from Mexico, then you pay a tariff, to ship products in.

What am I missing?

Edit: Don't we have enough Trump bashing threads? Let's try to keep this one about Obama.

[DBowling]

After reading the article, I just don't see how the American taxpayer would be paying for the wall. It seems to me that the funding for the wall would come from whoever is exporting good to the US, by way of tariffs. In other words, you send products to the US from Mexico, then you pay a tariff, to ship products in.

What am I missing?

The cost of the tariff is always passed on to the consumer of the product. So the person who ends up paying the cost of the tariff is the American consumer of the product in question.

The problem with tariffs is the the American consumer always ends up paying the bill.

Edit: Don't we have enough Trump bashing threads? Let's try to keep this one about Obama.

The OP is about the negative financial impact of Obama's policies of out of control spending on the American economy. Trump has already said he is going to follow Obama's policy of stimulus spending, and Bannon has said that they don't care about deficit spending. So if Trump is going to continue Obama's fiscal recklessness then the OP would apply to Trump reckless fiscal policies just as much as Obama.

That said... I will comply with Rick's direction and avoid discussing Trump in this thread.

My .02

[edwardmurphy]

I'd say, conservatively, that 80% of the threads here contain at least some Obama-bashing. Why do we need another one? Why not shift the topic to current events?

[abelcainsbrother]

Both ed and DB are going to be proven wrong again. I don't understand how they can continue to believe anti-Trump ideas out there that get proven wrong,over and over and yet they still keep drinking the anti-Trump kool-aid.I guess they think they will finally get it right. I don't see how they continue to believe the people they get their news from when they were so wrong althroughout this election. Ya'll keep doubting Trump believing the naysayers only to later be wrong. If you want to convince yourself that Mexico's economy is more powerful than America's? Go ahead,but you should know that just because our politicians in both parties don't know how to negotiate America has the economic advantage over any other country on earth. We just have not been using that advantage but we will now. Former politicians in both parties are going to be made to look bad when it comes to a strong economy. Trump is going to unlock it and unleash America's economy in ways we have not seen from our politicians. You'll see.

[abelcainsbrother]

I'd say, conservatively, that 80% of the threads here contain at least some Obama-bashing. Why do we need another one? Why not shift the topic to current events?

You never heard me bash Obama or Hillary because they are bought off,sold out political puppets for their donors and they could careless what is best for America. This fact is all I needed to support and vote for Trump who is too rich to be bought off.They have abondoned the US Constitution that they swore to uphold and defend and are pushing a globalist agenda putting other countries first instead of America and the American people,just like you are putting Mexico over America believing liberal myths about how powerful Mexico's economy is compared to America's economy. Go back over their speeches and listen.Read about the tower of babel in Genesis.They answer to George Soros who wasted millions of dollars trying to stop Trump.