Philip wrote:I see Audacity never addressed the ultimate meanings for a child who dies per his myopia of only framing it as "God let a child cruelly die, etc.
I wrote: And YOU never addressed the reality of what such infant deaths would mean for a child instantly in Heaven. Your words: "He has the power to make sure they live." What the heck do you think would MORE make them live, and magnificently so, than being in the presence of the Lord???!!! Paradise and peace FOREVER! Oh, so God is guilty of allowing them instant entrance into a beautiful, perfect place of joy with Him? Such a wonderful fate we should all seek!
Audacity: It all certainly does point to a less than caring god doesn't it.
So, Audacity, if a child will instantly reach a place of great peace, love and no tears or suffering, HOW is that uncaring. Don't dodge the ramification of what this would truly mean.
Story: Do you agree with abortion?
Audacity: I'm in favor of the option.
OK, let's apply Audacity's logic here: He asserts God allowing a baby or child to die is hideous and cruel (although he fails to address how that child instantly being in the Lord's presence would not be astoundingly beautiful (just as King David asserted of his dead child with Bathsheba). Yet, he is in FAVOR of the "option" of abortion??? So, he doesn't consider having a baby's brains and organs vacuumed out and ripped apart as "hideous and cruel" - I'm really missing something here. Either he is for a so-called "medical" procedure that (almost always totally and unnecessarily) causes a brutal and gruesome death to a healthy, developing child, or he is for others having the right to do this horror. And yet he asserts to have an issue with God allowing consequences that are inherent in our mortal, physical world, common to mankind and all life, as unloving when He immediately brings that child into eternal peace and joy. You'd think he'd find atrocious the cruelty and horror of abortion, if he sees an unborn life cut unnecessarily short (by man), as that is what he is accusing God of. Does he not see the hypocrisy in his views?
Curious, but not unexpected, how you try to shift the focus away from the issue of the apparent hypocrisy of those who condemn abortion but continue to absolve god from doing essentially the same thing, to my personal position and beliefs. An understandable tactic, but hardly commendable. In any case, should you continue down this irrelevant side road of ad homs don't expect any further comment from me.
Audacity: Curious, but not unexpected, how you try to shift the focus away from the issue of the apparent hypocrisy of those who condemn abortion but continue to absolve god from doing essentially the same thing, to my personal position and beliefs. An understandable tactic, but hardly commendable. In any case, should you continue down this irrelevant side road of ad homs don't expect any further comment from me.
Of course, Audacity failed to address my questions as to the ramifications of a child instantly in God's presence. He also failed to address the inconsistency in how he is supposedly mortified that God would let (not CAUSE) a child "die" (as, that Child would be alive in Heaven), and yet he supports mass murder of the unborn. Wow.
Audacity as well as many people do not understand God's word. People who do know God's word fail to realize that the bible tells us why there is death. Audacity implies that death has not been addressed by God when it has been dealt with in God's word. Audacity might have a point if we believed in a God that had not dealt with death and yet allowed death but claimed to be a loving God,but our God in his word has dealt with death. God is honest with us about it and we can accept it or reject it. But Audacity and many others have a strawman god that does not reflect the real God of the bible that every believer believes in. We believe in the God the bible tells us about and not the strawman god Audacity has in mind.Audacity we are told in God's word to pray that God's will be done in the earth as it is in heaven and we pray this.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
Storyteller wrote:Audacity...
So you think God is wrong to allow these babies to die yet abortion isn't wrong?
The issue isn't a matter of what I think, but why people have no trouble condemning abortion, but don't condemn god for letting a baby go almost full term and then letting it die when he could have prevented it.
Good logic there. I think I'll kill the next person who annoys me in life, because some people just die due to disease or something going wrong. Surely you can do better?
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Storyteller wrote:Audacity...
So you think God is wrong to allow these babies to die yet abortion isn't wrong?
The issue isn't a matter of what I think, but why people have no trouble condemning abortion, but don't condemn god for letting a baby go almost full term and then letting it die when he could have prevented it.
Good logic there. I think I'll kill the next person who annoys me in life, because some people just die due to disease or something going wrong. Surely you can do better?
Storyteller wrote:Audacity...
So you think God is wrong to allow these babies to die yet abortion isn't wrong?
The issue isn't a matter of what I think, but why people have no trouble condemning abortion, but don't condemn god for letting a baby go almost full term and then letting it die when he could have prevented it.
Good logic there. I think I'll kill the next person who annoys me in life, because some people just die due to disease or something going wrong. Surely you can do better?
Better than what you just wrote? Yes I can.
Your logic isn't sound. Because something naturally happens, such justifies us doing it. Death is natural, sometimes premature, sometimes due to old age, so lets just end people's lives. If by "better", you mean more hollow arguments, then go right ahead. It'd be my pleasure to point out any foolishness.
If you wish to divert the debate to God's existence based upon death, pain and suffering (e.g., miscarriages), feel free to open another thread. You're loading your argument here with such, and that deserves a different thread imo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Storyteller wrote:Audacity...
So you think God is wrong to allow these babies to die yet abortion isn't wrong?
The issue isn't a matter of what I think, but why people have no trouble condemning abortion, but don't condemn god for letting a baby go almost full term and then letting it die when he could have prevented it.
Good logic there. I think I'll kill the next person who annoys me in life, because some people just die due to disease or something going wrong. Surely you can do better?
Better than what you just wrote? Yes I can.
Your logic isn't sound. Because something naturally happens, such justifies us doing it. Death is natural, sometimes premature, sometimes due to old age, so lets just end people's lives. If by "better", you mean more hollow arguments, then go right ahead. It'd be my pleasure to point out any foolishness.
If you wish to divert the debate to God's existence based upon death, pain and suffering (e.g., miscarriages), feel free to open another thread. You're loading your argument here with such, and that deserves a different thread imo.
I know it's sometimes helpful to one's position to steer a discussion away from the issue at hand and into the hinterlands of irrelevancies, but I'm not biting. If you're unable to address the issue I brought up in post 4 [Why aren't the posts numbered?]
"That abortion isn't the only process that's taking potential lives. God seems to be letting fetuses develop for 20-28 weeks before killing them off, yet I don't hear anyone condemning him for it. In his infinite knowledge (omniscience) why isn't he killing the embryo in its first moments of formation? Surely he knows it isn't destined for birth."
or as I told Storyteller
"why people have no trouble condemning abortion, but don't condemn god for letting a baby go almost full term and then letting it die when he could have prevented it."
OR answer my question, then I'll simply take your attempt at misdirection to be an admission that you can't address the issue or answer my question.
Okay... Why do I condemn abortion (and to be clear it's the act not the person) but I don't condemn God?
Because, as a beliver in God and Christ, I think only God has the right, and wisdom, to take our lives. Abortion, in particular, just seems cruel and heartless, if you don't want a child, don't get pregnant. In cases of rape a child can be a gift, even with such a beginning.
I used to believe in a womans right to choose, even as a new Christian, but after thought and reading and considering both sides I now think abortion is wrong.
Audacity, how can you condone abortion yet condemn God?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
Storyteller wrote:Okay... Why do I condemn abortion (and to be clear it's the act not the person) but I don't condemn God?
Because, as a beliver in God and Christ, I think only God has the right, and wisdom, to take our lives. Abortion, in particular, just seems cruel and heartless, if you don't want a child, don't get pregnant. In cases of rape a child can be a gift, even with such a beginning.
I used to believe in a womans right to choose, even as a new Christian, but after thought and reading and considering both sides I now think abortion is wrong.
Audacity, how can you condone abortion yet condemn God?
I condemn god because as an omniscient being whose capable of ending a life any time he wants, he knows that a baby is destined to be stillborn yet chooses not to end its life earlier, which is extremely unfair and hurtful to those parents who, for 20 + weeks, have built up their hopes and dreams for a child. In a word, it's cruel.
Last edited by Audacity on Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So what, abortion isn't cruel because it's our decision and not Gods?
And, given the choice I'd rather have been pregnant five times and lost four babies than been pregnant once with my daughter.
Without those losses I wouldn't have been the kind of mum I am, my daughter wouldn't be who she is.
Besides, you're saying that still birth is worse than early miscarraige.
And who, exactly, is God being cruel to? The parents, the baby?
What about abortion? Who's being cruel then?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
Philip wrote:So, Audacity, WHAT is your point???!!! What has THAT got to do with intentional abortion?
That abortion isn't the only process that's taking potential lives. God seems to be letting fetuses develop for 20-28 weeks before killing them off, yet I don't hear anyone condemning him for it. In his infinite knowledge (omniscience) why isn't he killing the embryo in its first moments of formation? Surely he knows it isn't destined for birth.
.
And here I thought that no one with actual brain cells ever pulls this stupid argument out of their ass.
Guess I was wrong.
You do know the difference between emotional arguments and logical ones, right?
If not, you shouldn't be here.
So, he doesn't consider having a baby's brains and organs vacuumed out and ripped apart as "hideous and cruel" - I'm really missing something here. Either he is for a so-called "medical" procedure that (almost always totally and unnecessarily) causes a brutal and gruesome death to a healthy, developing child, or he is for others having the right to do this horror. And yet he asserts to have an issue with God allowing consequences that are inherent in our mortal, physical world, common to mankind and all life, as unloving when He immediately brings that child into eternal peace and joy. You'd think he'd find atrocious the cruelty and horror of abortion, if he sees an unborn life cut unnecessarily short (by man), as that is what he is accusing God of. Does he not see the hypocrisy in his views?
Wow. 
